Aspiring Quartermaster

[SpiffyKeen7744]

Last time I tried to climb the difficulty ladder in the conquest world: Conquest Ladder: Emperor to Sid. I eventually managed that, learning a lot in the process.

Now I hope to climb the Quartermaster Ladder all the way to the top. While my final goal seems impossible to reach (especially considering that I will eventually have to get better than 88,000 points on Sid to do it), I must remember that a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. The first thing to do will be to get onto the Quartermaster's list. From there, I can improve my scores in each of the categories.

Right now I have games in the following:
Map Size: Tiny
Victory Type: Conquest, 20k
Difficulty: Emperor, Demigod, C3C Diety, Sid

I also have two games submitted so far this month. Both are Tiny, Chieftain, Domination games with the Sumerians. That adds to victory condition and difficulty. I have also been working on the Gauntlet for this month, which is Tiny, Sid, Spaceship. So far, no luck. I got blasted in one game and ran out of time in the other. (...maybe I should submit it for Sid histographic...) What does this mean?

Game categories remaining:
Map Size: Small, Standard, Large, Huge
Vicotry Type: Diplomatic, Spaceship, 100k, Histographic
Difficulty: Warlord, Regent, Monarch

Let's see if there is an "easy" way to get on the list!

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

Looking at the HOF tables, the following game types look best to accomplish my goal:

Huge Chieftain Diplomatic:
1. 980AD

Small Chieftain Spaceship:
1. 770AD
2. 1816AD

Large Monarch 20k:
1. 1465AD
2. 1475AD
3. 1700AD
4. 1778AD

Standard Warlord 100k:
1. 1365AD
2. 1868AD
3. 1928AD
4. 1975AD

I have already started a Huge Regent Histographic with the Ottomans. I'll stick with that for now.

I feel comfortable with each of those games, and since the categories are not full (except the histographic),
I can get on the list with victories at any date and score. I hope it is just a matter of time.

 

[Tone]

I look forward to the update. I'd wish you good luck but I know that you don't need it. Just let those warmongering skills loose when required and you'll get those quick victories you need. I reckon that you'll be getting a few top slots in the process.

(Just don't target my #1 slots )

 

[AutomatedTeller]

outstanding.

But you are missing a domination win type.

 

[superslug]

You can also subtract one difficulty level, as you only need to beat six out of the eight.

As far as an "easy" way to do it, the quickest way to do it is knock out as many settings as possible in one game. The Challenge can theoretically be knocked out in as little as seven games.

 

[superslug]

outstanding.

But you are missing a domination win type.

I also have two games submitted so far this month. Both are Tiny, Chieftain, Domination games with the Sumerians. That adds to victory condition and difficulty. I have also been working on the Gauntlet for this month, which is Tiny, Sid, Spaceship. So far, no luck. I got blasted in one game and ran out of time in the other. (...maybe I should submit it for Sid histographic...) What does this mean?

Strike that, you can knock off two difficulties if you choose.

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

It is true that I don't need all 8 difficulty levels, but right now it is not the limiting factor.
I need 4 more victory types and four more map sizes. That is why I am going for two Chieftain games even though I already have some.

Also, the pressure is on, as I'm going to get it before the next update!

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

I achieved a Spaceship victory with the Russians in 1050AD. One down, four to go.

I was helped by a free city in a costal position in 3350BC.

Things were kinda tight to start out, as it took a while to get my first luxury. Then I felt the need to fight for the last six on the continent. I ended up starting wars with the Sumerians and Germans, leaving them with one city each. This nabbed me Spices, Furs, Gems, Incense, and Silks. I also took a single city from the Ottomans that was settled on Wines. Here are the locations of the luxuries (note that I started in the middle South):

Once I had the luxuries, it was smooth sailing. I was able to use the AI civs nicely at each age transition. After gifting them forward, I nabbed Theology (yea!), Facism (boo!), and Miniturization (yea!). Not much to say beyond that.

My growth still needs some work, as I did not get to 4-turn research until the middle of the Industrial Age. However, 1050AD is not bad considering that the best ever is 570AD. In fact, 1050AD nabs me 10th overall, and 2nd in Small Chieftain (I think).

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

I have games submitted in the following:
Map Size: Tiny, Small
Victory Type: Conquest, Domination, Spaceship, 20k
Difficulty: Chieftain, Emperor, Demigod, C3C Diety, Sid

I am in the middle of a histographic game that is Huge and Regent.
Therefore I need Standard and Large, Warlord and Monarch, Diplomatic and 100k.
I think I should update my list of candidate game types:

Standard Warlord 100k:
1. 1365AD
2. 1868AD
3. 1928AD
4. 1975AD

Large Monarch Diplomatic:
1. 960AD
2. 970AD
3. 1285AD
4. 1290AD
5. 1400AD
6. 1762AD
7. 1953AD

Standard Monarch 100k:
1. 1685AD
2. 1790AD
3. 1920AD

Large Warlord Diplomatic:
1. 720AD
2. 950AD
3. 1275AD
4. 1818AD

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

Well, since Diplomatic requires faster research I should probably go Warlord for that, which means Monarch for 100k. Russia and Babylon, here I come!

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

Game number two is complete. I managed a 1315AD cultural victory (100k) with Babylon. Things could have been faster if I had captured the pyramids faster. Still, I think this is quite good.

The game had a lot of flood plains (I think I selected warm and arid). I started next to a flood plain wheat. The plan was to get to Feudalism asap and then conquer close to 60% of the land, while all the time building Temples, Libraries, Cathedrals, and Universities in my core cities and rushing them elsewhere. By the end of the game I had come up with a way to reuse useful land so long as I could fit more cities in the gaps. Once a non-core city had built all four "desired" buildings, it would stop using tiles, work all citizens as taxmen, and run wealth. This worked perfectly, as rushing made the cities small already and the free tiles could be used by the next generation of cities. New settlers were rushed where excess population existed.

As for conquest, things went more slowly than I expected. The turn before revolting for Feudalism, my land looked like this:

The Ottomans had the horses, iron and luxuries I wanted. I managed to get cities in the cracks before starting war anyway, but I needed the land also. So I built up Bowmen and started my Golden Age a little while later. However, I could not destroy the Ottomans the first time. In fact, my Bowmen needed horsemen backup just to take their capital. I managed Chivalry very quickly, even after getting Education first. The difference was that Feudalism gives great unit support, but does not give lots of gold for upgrades. I never really had my army fully upgraded. Eventually things got faster. I kept iron away from the Ottomans and Maya and cut it off from India. While I faced a few Indian Swordsmen, careful movements allowed me to make sufficient gains into their territory. If I had built Leo's Workshop earlier (I don't know how I could have managed that), then conquest would have been much faster. I had my 60% of the land by about 700AD. This included reducing India to 4 cities, and destroying the Ottomans, Indians, and Sumerians. The Dutch had become powerful thanks to their iron and ToA. However, I was very powerful and I kept my army large enough that they did not declare, though they did demand a few times.

In the end, my world looked like this with large core cities and mostly size one (but culturally superior) cities elsewhere:

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

I am actually kind of curious about how others play a 100k game. Especially how one might rush the desired buildings.

Thanks to the Sci & Rel traits, Temples, Libraries, Cathedrals, and Universities are 30, 40, 80, and 100 in cost. In some cases I would wait until production had reached 20 shields left for Temples and Libraries before rushing them with 1 citizen. Other times I would rush as soon as the cities were size 4. In most cases this occured because of difference in food production. Cities with low food production would have more built up in the box.

As for Cathedrals and Universities, things became a little bit different. At first I waited until Cathedrals needed 60 more production and rushed them with 3 citizens (cities of size 6 or larger). But then I had a problem with rushing Universities, as a lot of cities stopped at size 6. So I tried partial rushing to get them faster. At size 6 with only a few shields in the box I would rush a Barracks (40) for either 1 or 2 citizens, then I would rush a Courthouse (80) for 2 citizens, and then I would rush the University (100) with 1 citizen. This resulted in cities of size 2 (which would then build a settler) or size 1, which I would turn to wealth and a taxman.

By the end of the game, with lots of improved land in between old size 1 cities, I could settle a new city and have all four buildings complete in as fast as 30 turns (or better with food bonuses and/or floodplains).

4 turns - size 2
2 turns - size 3
2 turns - size 4
2 turns - size 5 (rush temple - size 4)
(rush library - size 2)
2 turns - size 3
2 turns - size 4
2 turns - size 5
2 turns - size 6 (rush cathedral - size 2)
2 turns - size 3
2 turns - size 4
2 turns - size 5
2 turns - size 6 (rush univeristy - size 1)
done

Does this sound like what you do? (he said to any player who had ever tried for a fast 100k)

 

[sanabas]

I have games submitted in the following:
Map Size: Tiny, Small
Victory Type: Conquest, Domination, Spaceship, 20k
Difficulty: Chieftain, Emperor, Demigod, C3C Diety, Sid

I am in the middle of a histographic game that is Huge and Regent.
Therefore I need Standard and Large, Warlord and Monarch, Diplomatic and 100k.

you'll also need a huge map & regent game. The histographic games don't count for the pentahlon/octathlon categories.

Does this sound like what you do? (he said to any player who had ever tried for a fast 100k)

Pretty similar. Although I usually go with a uni & library ahead of cathedral and temple, as they are worth more culture, and usually available at similar times. Depending on the economy, those cities with all 4 buildings can build colloseums, or crank out worker to join to cities for quicker rushing.

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

OK, I see where you are going with the order of buildings to rush. Did you ever run into cities with so much unhappiness that you could not even keep two or three citizens working tiles? I had some cities that could no longer keep content faces even at size two. This was Monarch, maybe the happiness is not as much a problem at a lower difficulty level?

I really ran into happiness problems rushing workers. I suppose that you had those cities build workers the normal way, but in most cases these cities would grow way too fast and eat up useful tiles that other cities could have been using to grow faster. I guess it is just a matter of monitoring each city every turn. Ugh!

Do histographic games really not count? Why then are there separate tables for those types of games? Ranks are given 1-10 for score?

Edit: You are right, the pages for Pentathlon and Machiavelli say only fastest finish.

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

Well, it seems that my histographic games will not cover Huge for the pentathlon award. Therefore, my new targets are 20k and Diplomatic, Large and Huge. Oh, and I really should target Warlord and Regent. Let's see what's up!

Large Regent 20k:
1400
1590
1630
1802
1926
1997
2034

Large Warlord 20k:
1525
1802
1802
1832
1960

Perhaps a higher difficulty... but I really don't want this to take too long.

Large Emperor 20k:
1745
1870

Or huge? No, leave that for Diplomatic.

Huge Chieftain Diplomatic:
980

Huge Warlord Diplomatic:
1020
1490
1985

Huge Regent Diplomatic:
1230
1798

 

[AutomatedTeller]

yes - that sounds like a 100K game, all right.

I want to try one where I build fewer cities and concentrate on fast improvements, prebuilds for wonders and research, on a lower level - but I'm sure it won't give me a fast time

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

yes - that sounds like a 100K game, all right.

I want to try one where I build fewer cities and concentrate on fast improvements, prebuilds for wonders and research, on a lower level - but I'm sure it won't give me a fast time

Tell me about it. The approach that I described above is very unnatural. Overkill pop rushing does not a happy empire make! I wonder if any of the fastest finishes really play a "natural" style game. Even an optimal 20k game gives a lopsided early game, but later on it is nice. A regular paced game in Spaceship or Diplomacy can be natural in feel, but the optimal sucks as you sacrifice troops and gold for 100% science.

Recently I have been playing the GOTMs in 5CCC mode. Having 5 power cities with improvements is more interesting than gross expansion with lots of little cities. But even that is not perfect, since the world looks like a bunch of ruins. In the last India game, I wanted to plant trees in all the empty spaces.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think a high level SS or Diplo game is similar to a normal game - at emperor or above, you really need to balance science with survival in a land of danger - especially if you gift the AI into new ages.

20K games a little wierd, because you basically cripple your civ with your most productive city not being a settler factory or a unit factory, plus you have to leave some rivals around so you don't accidentally win by domination. Plus, on higher levels, you have to worry about the AI winning by 100K culture.

Until I did a 100K game for the gauntlet, I had never used much in the way of poprushing, and never used feudalism.

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

I managed the 20,000 culture mark in 1550AD with the Persians. That should give me second place. I had one SGL that allowed me to rush Michelangelo's in 110AD. The only other SGL that I got was in the Modern Age after it could not make a difference. I also conquered the entire continent, even thought that was not necessary. The AI only managed 3 wonders. Although, conquest let me keep all civs away from good troops and Golden Ages. I only ever faced horsemen, warriors, archers, and spearmen (except for a few Dutch swords in the BC).

It did not beat the first place game by Sanabas, probably because of production restrictions. I really should have settled my capital one square NE, but I did not think ahead very well. Here is a shot of the city at 570AD. As you can see, I could have stayed on the coast but added 2 mountains and a hill. Oh well. My goal right now is to get on the Quartermaster listing. I can get a first place later.

 

[SpiffyKeen7744]

OK, I realize that I will not be able to finish my Huge Regent Histographic game before the next update. Therefore, I finished up a Sid Spaceship Gauntlet game all the way to 2050AD. I could not research all the necessary techs for a spaceship, and I just missed losing by cultural 20k. Since it is Sid, the tiny map gives me a score of 3582. This will put me at about 50th place on the histographic list. Not very good, but it will have to do for now.

That leaves me just Huge Regent Diplomatic to finish the challenge. If I get a good diplomatic date, I project a Quartermaster average of around 3.6 putting me at about 18th place. If I can get the Huge Regent game submitted, I project an average around 2.3, which is almost top five. Only time will tell.