Attacking cities

Mike_H

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
12
I've taken over most cities from one of the civilizations in my game, but am having great difficulty killing off the capital. I've already used catapults to destroy the city's defences.The enemy has musketmen defending it, and they keep killing my grenadiers and cannons.
What are the best units for attacking cities?
 
Well, it's too general of a question to say what the "best" unit is for attacking a city, but the units you mention sound up to the task without much of a problem.

What might be happening is you are attacking (but not defeating) some musketmen each turn, and then on the next turn they have healed some and gotten promoted, thus making them still difficult to defeat. Make sure to attack with enough units on one turn so you can completely destroy the units you engage.
 
Also, for tough-to-crack cities (especially capitals and cities on hills, in my experience), it is often worth it to sacrifice a siege weapon (catapults, or even better, trebuchets, or their later counterparts) to 'soften up' the defenders. Typically siege weapons are relatively cost-effective, in terms of production, contrasted to their counterparts in a given age (and get a 25% shot at retreating on top of that), so it's sometimes better (IMHO) to sacrifice a siege weapon or two than to risk several axes, maces, or the like in attempting to take the city.

Note that siege weapons all do collateral damage (i.e. damage multiple units in a stack), so attacking with even just one can damage most, if not all, of a city's defenders, often times giving your remaining city-attack units much better odds for finishing off the resistance.

Bleser's point also holds quite valid - it can be quite detrimental to lose several units attacking a city if you do not succeed in taking it that turn - the defenders just heal up and can get promotions sometimes, leaving the enemy stronger in the long run and costing you production for those units you lost.
 
Catapults, catapults, catapults. Nothing can withstand an assault of cheap, disposable catapults.
 
You should not be in a situation where you're attacking a city and they keep killing your units, it means you're attacking with too weak of a force and doing it multiple times. Open up with several collateral damage units (cats, trebs, cannon - you still get some effect from the old junk) to weaken the stack, then use good units like city raider cannon, city raider grenadiers (have to make a city raider mace/pike, then upgrade him), or pinch grenadiers to take down the stronger guys left standing, followed by various other units to kill the rest of the stack.

The only time you should be attacking a city over multiple turns is if there's just 1-2 junk units left over at the end or if your units have enough of an advantage to kill enemy units without losses (like redcoats vs musketmen). Otherwise, wait and bring up a bigger force - if you're attacking and losing units, then you're giving your opponent promotions, making the city harder to take, and not actually killing his guys while yours die.
 
Pantastic said:
You should not be in a situation where you're attacking a city and they keep killing your units, it means you're attacking with too weak of a force and doing it multiple times. Open up with several collateral damage units (cats, trebs, cannon - you still get some effect from the old junk) to weaken the stack, then use good units like city raider cannon, city raider grenadiers (have to make a city raider mace/pike, then upgrade him), or pinch grenadiers to take down the stronger guys left standing, followed by various other units to kill the rest of the stack.

I have to agree with ya on this one. The first attack on the city should be the one to take it over. Lots of collateral damage is also great, but numbers will usually win you a battle. If you bring 3-4 times the amount of units they have there, chances are you will win, and if things really go well you can move on to the next one. It may seem a little overwelming, but build build build.. And if for some reason your losing, and the rolls just don't go your way. Sometimes (especially when you back on techs and ya end up fighting musketmen with swordsman or somethin like that) ya have to bring even more, and if ya fall to 1:1 units (You have the same number they do) just retreat (Pillaging key squares).. There is no reason to just throw your units away.
 
My personal favourite is CR cannon; you only start needing grenadiers when they're defending with rifles; a 2:1 advantage should be enough 99% of the time.
Worth checking out terrain defences, hill, across a river.
 
Yes Catapults or Trebs are definatly the way to go against cities ! Always bring 3 or 4 (or even more if the cities are tough to crack) so you can sacrific one or two. Also bring lots of troops so you can take the city on the first turn as stated above.
It´s usually a good idea to head straight for the capitol, holy cities and other power houses to hurt the enemy before he can begin to gather his troops there.
If you have enough troops you might also want to send a small force to lay siege to a town you might not want just to keep the enemy spreadout, but you must be sure that you can take your main objectives so not to risk the inportant goals.
Also remember to bring some defensive units to guard against counterattacks and to hold the city so you can move on with your offensive forces.
 
pigswill said:
My personal favourite is CR cannon; you only start needing grenadiers when they're defending with rifles; a 2:1 advantage should be enough 99% of the time.
Testify! Cannons are, bar none, my favorite unit in the game. Even rifles have trouble dealing with them. Yeah, the first cannon in the stack will likely fall (or retreat!!), but the rest of the stack will probably succeed. I bring grenadiers along with 'em, but mostly just so I can camp in forests outside cities and get a moderate terrain bonus. If the enemy is still defending with muskets or, god help them, longbows, cannons just chew through his cities. The only things that shut down cannons are large stacks of cavalry (if you lack rifle protection) and the advent of infantry.
 
pigswill said:
My personal favourite is CR cannon; you only start needing grenadiers when they're defending with rifles; a 2:1 advantage should be enough 99% of the time.
Worth checking out terrain defences, hill, across a river.

True 2:1 is usually good, but I have seen 2:1 fail a few times (Darn Longbow heh). I usually like swarming the guy so I go 4:1.. But something you have to take into consideration is tech level.. are you even, behind them, ahead of them? I have gone 1:1 when I was ahead in techs and stomped them, but have lost 3:1 when I was behind in techs.. but that was from being quite a bit behind.
 
The city I'm trying to take over has riflemen and cavalry guarding it. I've been attacking it with cannons and grenadiers.
However before I attack, it states my combat odds are about 1%!! I can't understand why they're so low. My units are hardly damaging the computer's and are easily losing!!
I can't understand why they're so ineffective!!
 
Have you bombarded the defense away? That's your biggest problem if you haven't, you want the city at 0% before you attack anytime in the game after you get cats. then, what unit are you using to attack? If your stack has a cat in it somewhere and you're attacking with the stack, the computer is probably trying to sacrifice it to weaken the defenders.
 
malekithe said:
2:1 with cannons failed against longbows??!!?

Huh... no.. was talking units to units.. not just cannons.
 
One thing I'd add: Yes, you should definately bring enough power to take the city in a single turn. But this doesn't always mean you should actually take the city in one turn. Especially if it looks like it's going to be the last guy in your stack killing the last guy in his stack, it can be worthwhile to hold back for one turn, and get the last kill next turn. That way, you can defend the new city with your full stack, instead of one injured guy.

Obviously, this doesn't apply all the time. Especially if you're just going to burn it down anyway.:D
 
Or you plan to raze and resettle cuz odds are someone will beat you to it if you don't settler nearby.
 
Mike_H said:
The city I'm trying to take over has riflemen and cavalry guarding it. I've been attacking it with cannons and grenadiers.
However before I attack, it states my combat odds are about 1%!! I can't understand why they're so low. My units are hardly damaging the computer's and are easily losing!!
I can't understand why they're so ineffective!!

4 things:
- bombard away the defense with your cannons (you mentionned bombing with catapults, that's ok too, but beware of defense growing back)
- promote your attackers! For cannons vs muskets, the obvious way is CR 1,2,3. For grenadiers vs muskets, it's combat and pinch.
- heal your troops! injured units are nowhere as strong as full strength units! You need a medic in your stack.
- attack with cannons first, then you should face injured troops with full strength troops = 99% odds most of the time.
 
before I attack, it states my combat odds are about 1%!!

Look at the reasons for the 1% that are displayed. (The green and red text that is in the lower left screen below the 1%. )

Do not attack at 1%. Wait for some reasonable success chance - say 80% if you are only willing to lose 1 out of 5 units.

Are you attacking with damaged units? Across a river? Against multiply-upgraded units?

Understand which units are effective against others. The highest ranked unit will not necessarily be the best one to attack with (if you are not sending a complete stack.) For example, don't send a War Elephant (8) against a Spearman (4?).
 
malekithe said:
2:1 with cannons failed against longbows??!!?

Longbows get a bonus defending cities, and even more of a bonus if that city is on a hill. When I go to gunpowder, the longbows I have defending cities on hills are the ones I replace last.

When taking a city my general technique is:

1) First stack: obsolete units I was going to delete anyway. These are "catapult fodder" for the cats and mounts and crossbows, et al., that an AI typically throws at the first stack to go adjacent to their city. 4 or 5 obsolete units in the stack means they'll burn cats to kill my units.

2) Second stack: more obsolete units, as the AI typically keeps some cats in reserve and won't expend all of them on the first stack to come along. 4 or 5 more spearmen, archer, axemen, etc.

3) The REAL stack of doom: at least one of each contemporary unit for the time period I'm in, and a generous overflow of cats, cats, cats, and more cats (or cannons, cannons, and more cannons!) In addition I have an extra 3 to 4 macemen, 1 or 2 with City Raider, 1 or 2 with "stars" (for field combat), and 1 that acts primarily as a healer unit and for initial city defense (until a longbow force comes in for permanent garrison). Lastly, I also include 2 or 3 obsolete swordsmen who usually have City Raider II from barbarian conquests and what-not.

Stacks 1 and 2, their main purpose is to tempt the defender into a counterattack and to burn catapults as much as possible. Even old school spearmen will also be able to kill off whatever horse archers and some of the knights they throw out at me. If they do survive the counterattack onslaught, and they often do, they simply guard the high ground or forest overlooking the city so that the "real" stack won't have to fight their way into the attacking position.

When the "real" stack shows up, my force of siege weapons typically wipe out the city's defensive bonuses in one or two turns. That's how many I bring. It's important not to be parked there too long because time is on the side of the defender, and if you're on offense, it's conquer fast or die. For that reason, if your stacks encounter lone intercept units on the road to the city you're going to attack, just avoid them, move around them, don't even acknowledge their existence (but choose well-defended terrain as you move around them).

After the city's defenses are at zero, I employ a Darwinian test of my obsolete swordsmen: they go in as the spearhead of the raid, and if they survive the attack, they're destined for promo to macemen or grenadiers after the city is taken. If they die, they are purged from the array of units costing me money.

The swordsmen attack is to wear down the strength of the defender's most powerful garrison units, which are usually longbowmen. What this means is that when I unleash my catapults into a direct attack on the city, it won't be WHOLLY suicidal, and a good number of them have a chance to withdraw from combat or even win a few, and I start from the least experienced cat, and hang back with my elite, highly-promoted catapults, who only begin THEIR attack when the odds favor their winning. After all the catapults have had their go at it, if the city is still defended, the remaining macemen, mounted units, pikemen, etc., get involved, whatever's the best matchup for the strongest defender unit at the time.

If I'm down to 1 or 2 healthy units and the city has more than that number of defenders at full strength, I stop the attack and leave them fortified, to retain that siege position for a healing session and to bring in reinforcements. It never bodes well if I have to do that though, and under ideal conditions I have multiple sets of city-raid stacks: usually while one is healing, the other is busy attacking somewhere.
 
catapult burning stacks are good, I use this tactic too, but not to the same extent maybe.

What I do is
- a bick stack with siege units + healer + stack defenders (+ dominant assault unit of the time)
- some recon guys (like a spear, an axe, a catapult)

I bring the recon guys close to my next target city. The spear and axe fortitfy, while the cat starts bombing. This small stack is often badly injured after a few turns, sometimes it's lost completely, but my big stack can move in for the kill with little opposition.


I use the uninjured stack defenders + cat from a previous assault, to do recon while the big stack heals.
 
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