attacks on Christians' on Easter Sunday in Sri Lanka

[El_Machinae]

It is a subtype of imperialism specifically worth pointing out because it matters far more to the configuration of the world today than, say, the imperial policies of the Abassid Caliphate or the Sung dynasty.

Ah, gotcha.

But then how are Napoleon and the USA similar enough to compare them to the Ottoman Empire and Iraq? We seem to package them into the groups such that we want to put them together with each other.

 

[Lexicus]

But then how are Napoleon and the USA similar enough to compare them to the Ottoman Empire and Iraq? We seem to package them into the groups such that we want to put them together with each other.

My answer wouldn't be in terms of "similarity" or "difference" but in terms of historical continuities and circumstances. I brought up Napoleon's invasion of Egypt not because I think it is in some sense similar or comparable to the Iraq War but because I think it is an important development in the history of modern relations between Europeans and the Islamic Middle East.

Perhaps a tangent, but did you know that the Ottoman Empire administered the territory of Iraq until the end of World War I?

 

[El_Machinae]

My answer wouldn't be in terms of "similarity" or "difference" but in terms of historical continuities and circumstances. I brought up Napoleon's invasion of Egypt not because I think it is in some sense similar or comparable to the Iraq War but because I think it is an important development in the history of modern relations between Europeans and the Islamic Middle East.

Perhaps a tangent, but did you know that the Ottoman Empire administered the territory of Iraq until the end of World War I?

I did not know that, no. I think I was hung up on trying to figure out if there was a notable difference between "Mediterraneans interfere with Mediterraneans" and "Europe interferes with the Middle East". Trying to figure out when "kingdoms just naturally fight each other" to the idea of "Islam and the West seem to think they're different". When Sri Lankan muslims kill Sri Lankan Christians, and we think that somehow we're involved in the 'sides' being delineated.

 

[Patine]

I did not know that, no. I think I was hung up on trying to figure out if there was a notable difference between "Mediterraneans interfere with Mediterraneans" and "Europe interferes with the Middle East". Trying to figure out when "kingdoms just naturally fight each other" to the idea of "Islam and the West seem to think they're different". When Sri Lankan muslims kill Sri Lankan Christians, and we think that somehow we're involved in the 'sides' being delineated.

I can't help but notice that you, and a few others on this thread, are viewing the "Western World vs. Islamic World" narrative in solid, indivisible, unified, non-dissenting, hive-mind like blocs with simplistic siege mentality terminology - almost like two ant colonies fighting each other to take each other's larvae to raise as slave workers and each other's aphids to milk for honeydew. In fact, it very much as another incarnation of a socio-political plague I've brought up at several other points previously - a revival of Manichaean thinking.

 

[El_Machinae]

I can't help but notice that you, and a few others on this thread, are viewing the "Western World vs. Islamic World" narrative in solid, indivisible, unified, non-dissenting, hive-mind like blocs with simplistic siege mentality terminology - almost like two ant colonies fighting each other to take each other's larvae to raise as slave workers and each other's aphids to milk for honeydew. In fact, it very much as another incarnation of a socio-political plague I've brought up at several other points previously - a revival of Manichaean thinking.

I certainly don't hold that view. I try merely to recognize when people are doing so. When I discuss Islam and liberal nations, it will eventually just be boiled down into whether any specific piece of multicultural adaptation increases or decreases authoritarianism. Authoritarians make me nervous.

My major comment in this thread has been 'not all ideologies are equal'. I jumped into the conversation about 'Islam vs. the West' (mainly started by Modder_Mode and Traitorfish, imo) by trying to figure out when it became the idea of 'Islam vs. the West'. Trying to unpack when it becomes more about 'teams' than Mediterraneans empires fighting each other is ... hard.

 

[r16]

If you yourselves at wrong, you should bother to check then correct it, so you have the privilege to correct other Now I relieve yourselves from unnecessary dilemma

If you want to kindly thank me, just treat me a Turkish coffee, just ask me my current address and kindly send it to me together with Kusburnu, I miss those stuff!

once again , asking for trouble one is . How many times do ı have to tell am under observation and even left the Stuntwoman standing in the street ? Am pretty sure one can order Kuşburnu online and this year has seen the launch of many Turkish Coffee Machines for kitchen use .

Indeed, the unhealthy philosophies of Mani from the 3nd Century Parthian Highlands was cancerously infected a LOT of Islamic thought (just as you have proven AGAIN in your post above - neither Tolkien nor Lucas made up this ridiculous worldview or ideology; it has VERY ancient origins), just like it has many other major religions today - defying, breaking, warping, distorting, and being anathema to the core tenets of every major religion actually standing today, except Zoroastrianism, to which it is related - hence why such syncretism is cancerous and destructive, as well as infecting non-religious-specific political, social, and military ideology strongly as well. Even though the Manichaean religion, by name and specific ritual and observance, died in Ming-Dynasty China and the Netherlands in separate extinction events in the 15th Century, the destructive, ruinous, and viral ideals are returning with a vengeance, and you seem very to be one of that revival's staunch opponents - despite Islam, like the vast majority of religions today, being utterly doctrinally incompatible that type of thinking. You, like so very many others, of so many cultures, nations, and religions, even those you call enemies, are part of the problem, and an enemy, or at least impediment, of the solutions, and one ushers of the Death Spiral of GLOBAL Civilization.

ı really look like a wimp , but there would be people to say (if they can be made to bother) to tell you that ı have firm convictions , am very aggressive , unpatient and all that jazz .

for the sake of argument , let's assume you and ı end up debating the religions and for the sake of this argument am ascribing Christianity to you . We tell our respective faiths are superior . Will probably fail to convince each other . My duty to "spread" Islam has been fulfilled , especially at a time Bin Ladin and what not are not believed by Americans to be American spies . In the end , why , your corrupt priests have fooled you . Just like as you might have said our corrupt imams have fooled us . For the sake of argument , you then go on an harder track and we get to a point where polite and stuff kind of debate ends and insults are in order . Burn in Hell , why do ı care ? My fate is partially in my hands , Allah Has Created me with Full Knowledge that ı will succeed or ı will fail , but it's still my choice that makes so many of the points on the map of my life , so to speak . It doesn't really involve arguing with people who oppose Islam , too . Islam , as The Way , requires you to live and many of the rules are basic standarts . If ı had managed to have children , a boy and a girl for the sake of argument , my daughter would get one share of the my money in the bank after ı die while my son would get two shares of the same , because in the 7th Century Arabs were burying their daughters alive as their birth were a shame . ı would really like to know if Allah Has Banned it truly and ı will burn in Hell , if my daughter and son share the money 50% each . ı live , fail or succeed or more realistically something in between . And for the sake of argument , you are still unsatisfied . Gonna find me and kill me ? Not very likely , as the world is quite a big place . Still for the sake of argument , you are unsatisfied . You write a letter to the idiot in the White House . Something happens and he decides all the heathen must be eradicated from the face of the world . Then take my promise that ı will have a monument in your name , in the occupied Washington DC , at least 200 meters tall .

ı have seen the world , on Moon and beyond and it doesn't stand on the horns of a bull which then stands on a turtle .

 

[H4run]

my daughter would get one share of the my money in the bank after ı die while my son would get two shares of the same , because in the 7th Century Arabs were burying their daughters alive as their birth were a shame

This is not a related premise and conclusion even both are factually true. There was a practice of burrying newborn daughter before Islam which is heavily outlawed and damn during the raise of Islam in Arab, the practice ceased to exist after that.

And yes the daughter get half compared to a son's inheritance, thats because male's wealth practically a family wealth, while female's wealth count as their own possession. For instance my wife's earning is belong to her, she doesnt have any obligatory to support our family monetarily, while my wealth is the wealth of my whole family, in fact all of my salary is held by my wife for family spending and she gives me daily money for transport or cigs that sufficed me, while her money is her own, whatever she gives to us from her earning it is her kind gesture toward us.

Also debt of the father or son after they passed away it is a responsible for the male member of the family to pay it. However under other circumstances and agreement the inheritance can be divided equally.

 

[r16]

it's a basic standart that even girls count as the offspring of men and it's a revelation in the 7th century and as Allah Insists on people to think , there is not exactly a ban on girls and boys being equal , to the extent of females having the right to live alone and all that . Things can go up , not kept the same for centuries and centuries , one must indeed be careful in interpreting the rules .

 

[H4run]

it's a basic standart that even girls count as the offspring of men and it's a revelation in the 7th century and as Allah Insists on people to think , there is not exactly a ban on girls and boys being equal , to the extent of females having the right to live alone and all that . Things can go up , not kept the same for centuries and centuries , one must indeed be careful in interpreting the rules .

R16, what I was saying is that there is no causal relation between the two fact that you mentioned earlier.

 

[Patine]

ı really look like a wimp , but there would be people to say (if they can be made to bother) to tell you that ı have firm convictions , am very aggressive , unpatient and all that jazz .

for the sake of argument , let's assume you and ı end up debating the religions and for the sake of this argument am ascribing Christianity to you . We tell our respective faiths are superior . Will probably fail to convince each other . My duty to "spread" Islam has been fulfilled , especially at a time Bin Ladin and what not are not believed by Americans to be American spies . In the end , why , your corrupt priests have fooled you . Just like as you might have said our corrupt imams have fooled us . For the sake of argument , you then go on an harder track and we get to a point where polite and stuff kind of debate ends and insults are in order . Burn in Hell , why do ı care ? My fate is partially in my hands , Allah Has Created me with Full Knowledge that ı will succeed or ı will fail , but it's still my choice that makes so many of the points on the map of my life , so to speak . It doesn't really involve arguing with people who oppose Islam , too . Islam , as The Way , requires you to live and many of the rules are basic standarts . If ı had managed to have children , a boy and a girl for the sake of argument , my daughter would get one share of the my money in the bank after ı die while my son would get two shares of the same , because in the 7th Century Arabs were burying their daughters alive as their birth were a shame . ı would really like to know if Allah Has Banned it truly and ı will burn in Hell , if my daughter and son share the money 50% each . ı live , fail or succeed or more realistically something in between . And for the sake of argument , you are still unsatisfied . Gonna find me and kill me ? Not very likely , as the world is quite a big place . Still for the sake of argument , you are unsatisfied . You write a letter to the idiot in the White House . Something happens and he decides all the heathen must be eradicated from the face of the world . Then take my promise that ı will have a monument in your name , in the occupied Washington DC , at least 200 meters tall .

ı have seen the world , on Moon and beyond and it doesn't stand on the horns of a bull which then stands on a turtle .

A very nice try at a Platonic Dialogue, complete with filling in my side of the argument in a vane that best suits you own rhetoric and point-of-view. But, here's a real concern I do have in religion and faith, and it ways heavily on my soul. What does God/Allah/The All-Mighty and All-Powerful REALLY think of affairs today, and for the last many centuries, and all the evil, wickedness, atrocity, and unspeakable acts being done ALL THE TIME in His name by those claiming to follow the tenets of one Abrahamic Monotheist religion or another, under instruction or encouragement of "religious leaders" who use His name in vane and the label and legitimacy that religion seems to give to their own vane self-aggrandizement and self-promotion, ulterior motives, the satiation of their own greed, lust, and desire for power and other base motives of flawed, faulted, sinful, mortal humans, as well as advancing the nations - that are all pure, secular craft of the endeavours of said flawed, faulted, sinful, mortal humans, that many such religious groups are tied at the hip? What if your own religious leaders, and SO MANY others', have lied to you? What if Judgement is NOT a joyous occasion of reunion with your Creator, but instead you face an Angry God whose rage you were unprepared for because of the deceits and blandishments of the religious mentors you so admired? Have you ever though about this soberly and seriously AT ALL? I have - long and hard - and several nights it has even kept me awake now.

 

[r16]

R16, what I was saying is that there is no causal relation between the two fact that you mentioned earlier.

r16 it always is , ı don't deserve to be taken seriously or something . There's bound to be a trail of arguments and the like on how the inheritance laws were established and if one had access , we would surely see those were people , just like you and me , trying to establish some sort of standarts and the like for giving some order to life on this earth , the place where one is tested . In a world where women were indeed worthless and given up a boost . It's nothing about Arabs burying their newborn daughters alive , now that the Chinese work to prevent a disaster in the 20th Century has created a thing that every "proper" American thinks the Chicoms are 100 or 200 million females short as the daughter would marry into some other family and the single child had to be a son to care after his parents in old age . As such China will suddenly invade its neighbours and steal their women and this is why America must have 10 million nuclear warheads , properly enriching the "proper" Americans .

 

[r16]

A very nice try at a Platonic Dialogue, complete with filling in my side of the argument in a vane that best suits you own rhetoric and point-of-view. But, here's a real concern I do have in religion and faith, and it ways heavily on my soul. What does God/Allah/The All-Mighty and All-Powerful REALLY think of affairs today, and for the last many centuries, and all the evil, wickedness, atrocity, and unspeakable acts being done ALL THE TIME in His name by those claiming to follow the tenets of one Abrahamic Monotheist religion or another, under instruction or encouragement of "religious leaders" who use His name in vane and the label and legitimacy that religion seems to give to their own vane self-aggrandizement and self-promotion, ulterior motives, the satiation of their own greed, lust, and desire for power and other base motives of flawed, faulted, sinful, mortal humans, as well as advancing the nations - that are all pure, secular craft of the endeavours of said flawed, faulted, sinful, mortal humans, that many such religious groups are tied at the hip? What if your own religious leaders, and SO MANY others', have lied to you? What if Judgement is NOT a joyous occasion of reunion with your Creator, but instead you face an Angry God whose rage you were unprepared for because of the deceits and blandishments of the religious mentors you so admired? Have you ever though about this soberly and seriously AT ALL? I have - long and hard - and several nights it has even kept me awake now.

my thing is all about preventing the awkward . Where one of the sides of this argument or whatever convinces the CFC forum that there's evil at work in the world for centuries . That needs to be fought in its place of origin . And interestingly the maniism or however one spells that , would have been the "perfect religion" for the New World Order . Which , unfortunately or something in this exact moment is much thought to be the thing of other people . Like Jewwsss! And this angry Jewish God thing as of today . That bans self stimulation in sex , because some King refused to send a woman's husband to battle to get him killed so that the King could sleep with the woman ? ı was expecting the call to be a proper Muslim , so that we Turks would have a foot of beard , ban kites and go kill America's enemies whenever the Great White Man in the White House beckons . You see , all this banter might lead people o assume ı am real and -incredibly- a guy of things , which would then require me to be punished for failing to heed the words and the like . Just as an example it turns out the Mueller Report conclusively proves there was interference in the 2016 Elections , but it wasn't the Russians . Imagine the hate that would produce here in this forum ...

 

[Patine]

my thing is all about preventing the awkward . Where one of the sides of this argument or whatever convinces the CFC forum that there's evil at work in the world for centuries . That needs to be fought in its place of origin . And interestingly the maniism or however one spells that , would have been the "perfect religion" for the New World Order . Which , unfortunately or something in this exact moment is much thought to be the thing of other people . Like Jewwsss! And this angry Jewish God thing as of today .

I'm afraid I don't understand your rebuttal. The language is very unclear. Speaking in koans is a Buddhist thing...

 

[r16]

my apologies , ı had seen my answer to Haroon was not full enough and decided to edit it first and finish this one next .

ı am Turkish , not exactly a properly praying Muslim , a failure in life and so on . So , merely assume koans is a riddle or something like that .

 

[Patine]

my apologies , ı had seen my answer to Haroon was not full enough and decided to edit it first and finish this one next .

ı am Turkish , not exactly a properly praying Muslim , a failure in life and so on . So , merely assume koans is a riddle or something like that .

I would like to make clear, because you have brought it up a number of times in anger, that I do not condone war on other religions by invading their homeland. In fact, I detest, and have no support for, and only condemnation, of any imperialistic war or war to violate another nation's sovereignty. I have great respect for Switzerland in the sense that they have a state of the art, highly-trained, highly-equipped army and air force and fortified national defenses - but the Swiss Government makes a binding contract with every serviceman and reservist, which is backed by a clause in their Constitution that their military will never be deployed abroad and any Swiss soldier will only die in service, if at all, defending home soil. I think that's very admirable. Also, I am a Christian, but I am not a Roman Catholic, Russian Orthodox, Lutheran, Calvinist, Mormon, or other corrupt and fallen church who believe in, advocate for, and support war, corporate and personal greed, theocracy, "religious justice," forced conversion and the brainwashing and indoctrination of minors, sick cultural gun fetishes, and other things personally and explicitly condemned by Christ Himself in His Ministry, REGARDLESS of where else in the Bible they may be mentioned or endorsed.

 

[Lexicus]

I did not know that, no. I think I was hung up on trying to figure out if there was a notable difference between "Mediterraneans interfere with Mediterraneans" and "Europe interferes with the Middle East". Trying to figure out when "kingdoms just naturally fight each other" to the idea of "Islam and the West seem to think they're different". When Sri Lankan muslims kill Sri Lankan Christians, and we think that somehow we're involved in the 'sides' being delineated.

Well, the ideas of Christendom and the Ummah (Islamic Community) go back many centuries. With the emergence of the "barbarian" kingdoms in the Latin West, Christendom becomes a concept that explicitly cuts across the lines of political allegiance, uniting people who live in many different states.

The first Crusade began when the Greek Christian Byzantine Emperor appealed to the Latin Christian Pope for help after his army was defeated by the Seljuks at Manzikert. And the Pope then called for a crusade, a call which IIRC was answered by many across the Latin areas of Europe. This occurs obviously in the 11th century, hundreds of years ago, so how do you distinguish in reality between your idea of "teams" and kingdoms naturally fighting each other? I don't think there is a neat distinction between those two scenarios: the answer is tied up in how the twin concepts of Ummah and Christendom interacted with state allegiances (at that time mostly dynastic ideology). The Byzantines (who referred to themselves as Romanoi, let it be remembered) believed that their Emperor was the regent of God on earth: so the concepts of political and religious allegiance were not easily separable in the first place.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, we have the Pope vs. The Ummah. Or the two ummah. Or the two popes vs the two umma .

With the protestant revolution, there are nations that are 'Christian'. Were they openly devoted to inhibiting 'Muslim' expansion? Was it used as propaganda during territorial disputes?

I'm thinking as I go along here.

 

[H4run]

r16 it always is , ı don't deserve to be taken seriously or something .

You know that's not true, I correct your post obviously because I taking you seriously. But when you are being obscure and dribbling around with word as it is somekind of a ball, I just simply play along if I see the opportunity

 

[r16]

please no private messages . ı won't read them , unless by a moderator . They can be loaded like "legally" to cause a computer crash and the like , while the Starfleet carries enough weight to let the general forums here and like elsewhere to be left free .

not my choice at all . Fate moves people into places they had no reason , right or crime to be -at times . Am officially fat for years and have just grown more plump . Zipper issues can happen to anyone , but am startled to discover ı look down and think buttoned all the buttons of the shirt and turns out the one just under the "curvature" is forgotten . One grows old , and one set of pains has been bothering me for like 14 months now and can't even get it mentioned and the like , for there's always something around the corner , despite me not real , not nothing , not serious . One must now never give people an outlet to think they are equals or something ı undestand and will even concede at times when that set of pain is not making me grimace and all that - with American diplomats bothering me for half a decade - if you can ever believe the rumpurs . Like at a time when a bloody act of murder where some rich kids get extra heavy suicide vests so that the opening of the roof in Sri Lanka will prove Notre Dame was burned , just like some White politician idiot in Europe will be proven right and to bolster that the supremely heroic leader of the ISIL vermin reappears , with a folder named the province of Turkey . To insult us for some reason , while the TVs do not bother to tell what happened to previous actions of the guy that divided this country into 3 . Has he now given up breaking up the country , as per American designs to let the Kurds down for the duration so that everyone can go kill the Iranians ? Oh boy , there's obviously a reason why no one lets me handle diplomacy , but THIS IS SPARTAAAAA would be most excellent , like one of these days .

edit : read rumours for rumpurs ! Writing stuff at the web cafe doubles or triples the mistakes .

 

[H4run]

please no private messages . ı won't read them , unless by a moderator . They can be loaded like "legally" to cause a computer crash and the like , while the Starfleet carries enough weight to let the general forums here and like elsewhere to be left free .

Obiviously private message is sent because the message is considered to be more appropiate to be exchanged not in public, isnt it suppose to be obivious?

Your gesture is kind a snitch here for something that suppose to be enitirely positive. Nevetheless this is a special month for us, so I will tell you that one of the thing that I think isolated you from people who really interest in your post is your monologue, you can consider make a "ask a turkish diplomat thread" or something to let a dialogue.

And go to doctor ask for an exercise that is fit for you. Dont ignore things until its too late.