Aztec - Montezuma I Thread

[Civciv5]

Aztecs, not Mexico.
Khmer, not Laos.
Maya, not Guatemala.
Persia, not Iran.
Rome, not Italy.
Vikings, not Norway.
Zulus, not South Africa.

I wouldn't couldn't call these "counterparts".

I also must correct you that the Maya controlled parts of Guatamala, Mexico, Belize, Honduras and El Salvador.

The Khmer civilization is not from Laos, but Cambodia.
The Khmer people still exist, and their nation is currently called Cambodia, the adjective is Khmer.

Zulu is only a small part pf South Africa.

Persia is just another name for Iran. In fact, many ancient empires of Persia clled itself Eranshahr, of which Iran is derived.

The Vikings (aka Norse) are Denmark and Sweden as well, not only Denmark.

I also regret the fact the Aztecs are some kind of DLC in already Eurocentric game.

 

[Magil]

Am i the only one who haves this opinion so far all the civilizations we know aren't overpowered . it seems like everyone has their own unique units and buildings and abilities but it isnt overwhelming. I like it. In civ 5 launch france and china where overpowered and most people played them on deity to win overpowered geat general + 2 culture per citie for france...

In Civ V, the problem was one strategy was really overpowered at launch, and if you think the current AI is bad at warfare... so yeah, the Civs that were the most OP were the ones who synergized well with ICS, warfare, and city-states (Greece was another big offender, two early UUs for conquering the world and easy access to CS alliances).

 

[stealth_nsk]

Am i the only one who haves this opinion so far all the civilizations we know aren't overpowered . it seems like everyone has their own unique units and buildings and abilities but it isnt overwhelming. I like it. In civ 5 launch france and china where overpowered and most people played them on deity to win overpowered geat general + 2 culture per citie for france...

We just don't know most of game mechanics and a lot of balance work is still coming. Some things could be really imbalanced.

From the introduced civs, for example, China eureka bonus is suspicious. Let's say developers thought what about 30% of techs will be researched with eurekas and thus China bonus us 15% and the game is balanced around it; but after the release players will found approaches to get nearly all eurekas, thus giving China nearly 50% bonus on techs and culture discoveries. In this case China will end up overpowered.

We just don't know a lot of things.

 

[Delvi]

I wouldn't couldn't call these "counterparts".

I also must correct you that the Maya controlled parts of Guatamala, Mexico, Belize, Honduras and El Salvador.

The Khmer civilization is not from Laos, but Cambodia.
The Khmer people still exist, and their nation is currently called Cambodia, the adjective is Khmer.

Zulu is only a small part pf South Africa.

Persia is just another name for Iran. In fact, many ancient empires of Persia clled itself Eranshahr, of which Iran is derived.

The Vikings (aka Norse) are Denmark and Sweden as well, not only Denmark.

I also regret the fact the Aztecs are some kind of DLC in already Eurocentric game.

Exactly.

I want to add that Rome is not the same as Italy. 😉

 

[Paramecium]

Can anyone post a link to said tweet where the statement is, that the eagle warrior wont slave defeated barbarians?

Coz I think that will actually quite nerf them compared to the case it wouldnt be like that ...

Edit: Okay, I found it myself, here is the link: https://twitter.com/firaxisgames

 

[Uberfrog]

Can anyone post a link to said tweet where the statement is, that the eagle warrior wont slave defeated barbarians?

Coz I think that will actually quite nerf them compared to the case it wouldnt be like that ...

Edit: Okay, I found it myself, here is the link: https://twitter.com/firaxisgames

It just gives the Aztecs a consequence for exploiting this ability. Considering we know that barbarians in Civ VI will send expeditions to attack your cities, it would be the easiest thing in the world to just build an army of Eagles, wait for the Barbarians to come, and have a constant supply of free Builders.

As it stands you're going to have to make early wars with a neighbouring civ, or at the very least, City States, to be able to get free Builders.

 

[Ox05]

First, I totally acknowledge that the tweet confirms that barbs can't be farmed for builders. But, the video shows at least two instances 55 and 1:30) of the Aztec converting "barbarians" into builders. Although those "barbarians" don't actually have an icon associating them with any team, unlike the unit showing at :35. So, I'd just like to remind everyone that we should not take everything we see in the videos as gospel.

 

[Paramecium]

First, I totally acknowledge that the tweet confirms that barbs can't be farmed for builders. But, the video shows at least two instances 55 and 1:30) of the Aztec converting "barbarians" into builders. Although those "barbarians" don't actually have an icon associating them with any team, unlike the unit showing at :35. So, I'd just like to remind everyone that we should not take everything we see in the videos as gospel.

If you look clearly, the first scene with the barbarian spearmen, you dont see if they get converted or not. And the second scene, we see sth like an egyptian slinger maybe, its dark coloured, but at least there is no icon above, so we cant be sure if it is a barbarian or not, probably its not.

 

[Big J Money]

So although at first many turns are lost in creating a strong army eagle warriors, then with builders they could specialize their cities and improve the land with much flexibility.

I would say you don't even need to build many. If my closest neighbor is England, and she has 3 warriors, I can also build just 3. Because mine are superior I can fight her 1 v 1 and defeat her entire military, gaining builders and keeping my Eagle Warriors.

Now, I leave her alone until she builds more military. I have put no more effort into war than my neighbor, and I have strengthened my position while weakening theirs.

Essentially, use the warriors not to capture land, but to hunt down enemies. This should be rather easy as those enemies will likely by fighting barbarians and already weakened.

Although you could turn this into a steamroll and capture land to gain more luxuries. Which seems like a wide empire suits the Aztecs for this reason.

 

[Big J Money]

Hm, I wonder what it will be like to bully city states. It's been a while since I've warred with one, but IIRC don't they start the game with units better than a warrior? It seems like this could be more challenging than going to war with a player.

Also, it seems the counter to Monty is going to be to rush archers or chariots, and then you'll be mostly fine.

 

[Big J Money]

Oh yes, and I'm surprised to see so many people who don't know how amenities work. I remember a vid where Ed describes them fairly thoroughly. IIRC, he says they're a cap on your population. Once you go over that cap you can grow, but growth rate drops substantially. Conversely, the further away you are from the amenity cap, the faster you'll grow. This way, new cities in more modern empires will grow much faster.

I believe he said the 3 stats surrounding growth will be happiness, food, and amenities. Unless I'm thinking about housing, doh...

 

[shyPiano]

Oh yes, and I'm surprised to see so many people who don't know how amenities work. I remember a vid where Ed describes them fairly thoroughly. IIRC, he says they're a cap on your population. Once you go over that cap you can grow, but growth rate drops substantially. Conversely, the further away you are from the amenity cap, the faster you'll grow. This way, new cities in more modern empires will grow much faster.

I believe he said the 3 stats surrounding growth will be happiness, food, and amenities. Unless I'm thinking about housing, doh...

It's housing what you're thinking about. Amenities haven't been particularly detailed yet.

 

[Big J Money]

I don't want to get too OT, but I hope that since housing is the stat that governs growth rate, that growth by food will otherwise be linear, and thus easier to calculate intuitively.

 

[Sonmi]

Am i the only one who haves this opinion so far all the civilizations we know aren't overpowered . it seems like everyone has their own unique units and buildings and abilities but it isnt overwhelming. I like it. In civ 5 launch france and china where overpowered and most people played them on deity to win overpowered geat general + 2 culture per citie for france...

I don't know, China seems like it could be quite overpowered.

Bonuses to Eureka moments means extra culture and science, while its builders are more efficient AND can be used to rush wonders. (Which means that if a specific wonder is extremely valuable, you could simply farm builders and then expend them all as soon as the wonder is available.)

They sound production-heavy, with a leg up in science and culture. It's pretty much optimal for a tall, insular Civ.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

I don't know, China seems like it could be quite overpowered.

Bonuses to Eureka moments means extra culture and science, while its builders are more efficient AND can be used to rush wonders. (Which means that if a specific wonder is extremely valuable, you could simply farm builders and then expend them all as soon as the wonder is available.)

They sound production-heavy, with a leg up in science and culture. It's pretty much optimal for a tall, insular Civ.

China can only rush ancient and classical era wonders with builders.

 

[Sonmi]

China can only rush ancient and classical era wonders with builders.

I forgot about that.

It's still a massive early game advantage though, a lot of potential for snowballing.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I forgot about that.

It's still a massive early game advantage though, a lot of potential for snowballing.

We'll see. Every Civ introduced so far (except maybe England) seems like it'd have the potential to snowball in its own unique way. We'll have to see how it plays. I remember the last previews everyone was convinced Russia would be very very OP because you could make double the amount of units as everyone else . . .

 

[ehecatzin]

China's eureka bonus does seem pretty good on the long term, much better than the wonder rush. I guess the way to deal with China is to rush them while they are pumping wonders before they tech up too much, that or keep on raiding them.

 

[Sonmi]

We'll see. Every Civ introduced so far (except maybe England) seems like it'd have the potential to snowball in its own unique way. We'll have to see how it plays. I remember the last previews everyone was convinced Russia would be very very OP because you could make double the amount of units as everyone else . . .

Aztecs not being able to use barbarians as builders greatly limits their potential snowballing. They have to actively defeat city states and other players to get ahead, I'd say that's a good trade off.

Japan's district bonanza sounds crazy powerful, but IIRC you can only build new districts every two pop, right? That kind of limits its snowballing effects, though it leaves Japan quite powerful later on.

America is like England, in that they don't seem to have anything especially snowballey.

I'd agree that Egypt also seems rather powerful early on, the whole river bonus for production looks quite useful, and the Sphinxes allow for you to snowball faith/culture if it's possible to build them early, but I'd still say China's Extra Builder Charge/Eureka/Early Wonder Rush seems way way more powerful.

 

[King Jason]

Japan's district bonanza sounds crazy powerful, but IIRC you can only build new districts every two pop, right? That kind of limits its snowballing effects, though it leaves Japan quite powerful later on.

The city center counts as a district so Japanese get an extra +1 to their first districts that no other civ has access to.

Settle an early city 1 space from 2 mountains and place a campus there as any other civ, you're generated 2 bonus science from that tile. As Japan, you're generating 3, a 50% increase of science over everyone else in that same spot.

In newly settled cities where mountains and jungles aren't present, Japan gets +1 science from campuses where all other civs (we know of) get nothing.