Azzaman333 reviews all 31 Civs: Ottomans

[azzaman333]

OTTOMANS
Leader: Osman
Aggression Level: 3
Favorite Government: Republic
Shunned Government: Despotism
Culture Group: Mid East

Trait Combo; Scientific and Industrious; 23/28
1 of the better trait combinations. Not only do you get fast research from cheap libraries and free techs, but you can road your lands quickly to get a lot of gold with Industrious. One of the few "lows" is that the traits dont really lend themselves to an early attack, but more of a mid-Middle Ages attack. Of course, if you do war very early then Industrious and Scientific is one of the best for bringing you back on track.

Unique Unit; Sipahi; 31/31
A cavalry replacement with 8 attack points, the Sipahi is very overpowered. Until Infantry, the Sipahi is almost unstoppable, unless there are enough Riflemen in Cities and Metros. Gives a perfectly timed Golden Age, at the start of the IA when you are building your Rail Networks. The only downside to the Sipahi is its comparitavely low defense, 3, but Sipahi shouldnt be defending in the first place, so it is almost a non-factor.

AI Game Play; 8/10
In mty experience, the Ottomans are normally a strong science powerhouse, with better than average war capabilities than most AIs. One of the main reasons for this is because they actually build artillery, bu no where near enough to be effective. A slight downside is they build too many temples, and they are pathetic with a below average start. Otherwise, the AI is kick-ass with the Ottomans.

UU & TC Blend; 1/1
Industrious to build the improvements that are required for fast research, Scientific to use that research capability, Sipahi when its al done and you have nothing more to do. Simple.

Total Score: 63/70 Rank: 1/7


Comments and discussion welcomed.
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[Graymalkin]

I'm going to have to disagree with the sipahi rating. First, it costs 100 shields, that's more than an infantry! The cost effectiveness of this unit is nothing compared to, say, a mounted warrior. Furthermore, if you're going to make the best use of this unit (and this has been pointed out before) you need to bee line to military tradition and forgo a lot of other useful techs and wonders. Also, If you do this, you'll also get your golden age in the late middle ages rather than the early industrial age (which is arguably a better time to have it).

Just my two cents.

 

[azzaman333]

But the cavalry is almost useless against Rifles, and a 20 shield difference at this stage won make a lot of difference. Sipahi are effective against Rifles, and can still kill the odd infantry.

Using Sipahi in a SoD with Artillery and 4 Infantry (for cover) gives you much better odds than a SoD with Cavalry. Sipahi Armys are even better, effectively becoming 12-5-4 unit with 12 hp. (provided you use 3 Sipahis in the army)

(MW is 2nd rank)

 

[Graymalkin]

But the cavalry is almost useless against Rifles, and a 20 shield difference at this stage won make a lot of difference. Sipahi are effective against Rifles, and can still kill the odd infantry.

Using Sipahi in a SoD with Artillery and 4 Infantry (for cover) gives you much better odds than a SoD with Cavalry. Sipahi Armys are even better, effectively becoming 12-5-4 unit with 12 hp. (provided you use 3 Sipahis in the army)

(MW is 2nd rank)

I'm not saying that Sipahi aren't good units, they definitely are but by the time you have artillery it's the artillery that primarily determine your success in war. I still think the cost effectiveness of the Sipahi is inferior. A 25% increase in attack with a 20% increase in cost. As opposed to a 50% increase in attack for a MW and 33% for Immortal with 0% increase in cost; or say a 50% increase in movement with riders or ansars with 0% increase and 14% decrease in cost respectively. Mounted warriors are so cost effective that it's not worth it to research chivalry (unless you disconnect/reconnect).

It's your rating system, by all means put the Sipahi at the top, I just think that raw offensive power is best considered with other factors.

 

[The 777 Hoax]

I agree with everything in this review. The Ottomans are amazing.

 

[Eukaryote]

But the cavalry is almost useless against Rifles, and a 20 shield difference at this stage won make a lot of difference. Sipahi are effective against Rifles, and can still kill the odd infantry.

Calvery aren't usless agansit rifles, I've even used them agansit infantry and gotten really good cites that way.

 

[redvtt]

Calvery aren't usless agansit rifles, I've even used them agansit infantry and gotten really good cites that way.

I agree. I've used them with artillery, taken many cities that way.

 

[nerovats]

Also a late MA goldenage is usually not the best timing for me. Maybe on huge worlds but not on standard. Prefer to get it earlier to help expand faster, maybe get a wonder.

 

[Virtual Alex]

Well during the time of Siphahi, the biggest attack rating is 6, from cavalry. It isn't as simply as price/offence. It's defense vs offense. A siphah is simply the most powerful unit on the map, until tanks. Thats a really large and impressive stretch of power, and in the early stages of it's era, when infantry is rare it stomps riflemen.

I know artillary are great and everything. But 3 movement and retreate ability are very useful as well for wars.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, the research path for ottomans is often a beeline for MT with maybe a stop at chivalry to make knights for an upgrade.

for the ottomans, it's often sipahi vs. pikes or maybe muskets, which is just painful for the people with pikes/muskets. Actually, the GA that sipahi give you sets you pretty well to build univerisities and some of those great wonders like copernicus or leo's.

In terms of game impact, MW are probably stronger, as you get them an age earlier - but then, MW are only 1.5 times stronger than spears, while Sipahi or 2 or nearly 3 times stronger than their contemporary defenders.

 

[Siaphi94]

I'm going to have to disagree with the sipahi rating. First, it costs 100 shields, that's more than an infantry! The cost effectiveness of this unit is nothing compared to, say, a mounted warrior. Furthermore, if you're going to make the best use of this unit (and this has been pointed out before) you need to bee line to military tradition and forgo a lot of other useful techs and wonders. Also, If you do this, you'll also get your golden age in the late middle ages rather than the early industrial age (which is arguably a better time to have it).

Just my two cents.

i agree with azzaman333. theyre useful for a very long time, even against riflemen. so yeah, until the oher civs get infantry, Siaphis are amazing

 

[Pyrrhos]

The Sipahi is not a particularly good UU. First, as pointed out, the tech required comes at the price of sacrificing more useful techs and wonders. I'd rather have The Sistine Chapel or Bach's Cathedral... Second, and most important, you do require access to and control of two resources, iron and salpeter. If you don't have salpeter yourself, you have to wait until other civs have researched Gunpowder (or you have sold it to them, negating much of the advantage gained by climbing the Sipahi tech tree) so they can discover it within their borders. Then you have to wait until they build a road to it - and you yourself establish a trade route to them either by land or sea. Not only that, the AI controls whether or not they will trade it to you for a reasonable price. You might even have to go to war over it and the Sipahi is just not worth it!

So, more often than not you find that you have sacrificed several useful technologies and some potentially game-decisive wonders only to find that you cannot access the resources neccessary without making further debilitating sacrifices, war and/or economy + science.

The Sipahi, well, no thanks! And as a consequence, Ottomans, we-eel...

 

[MAS]

The Sipahi is not a particularly good UU.

I agree in the sense that the MW is better, because it comes earlier. But the rest of your reasons don't make sense to me

First, as pointed out, the tech required comes at the price of sacrificing more useful techs and wonders. I'd rather have The Sistine Chapel or Bach's Cathedral

In lower difficulty levels, you can research all these tech plus cavalry before the AI does.
At higher difficulty levels, the AI build these wonders for you, (the AI are so nice and friendly ) then you use your sipahi's to relieve them of these burdens. (cause you are nice and friendly in return )

Second, and most important, you do require access to and control of two resources, iron and salpeter

.

Horses and salpeter, and horses are a very abundant resource.

If you don't have salpeter yourself, you have to wait until other civs have researched Gunpowder (or you have sold it to them, negating much of the advantage gained by climbing the Sipahi tech tree) so they can discover it within their borders. Then you have to wait until they build a road to it - and you yourself establish a trade route to them either by land or sea. Not only that, the AI controls whether or not they will trade it to you for a reasonable price.

Read next comment:

You WILL go to war over it

There, fixed that for you......, no, wait, I can do even better:

You war from the AA and up, all the way, ever expanding, by the time you get to cavalry, your empire is so large, there is almost not a chance you will somehow not already have the resources you need.

So, more often than not you find that you have sacrificed several useful technologies

I don't know about you but I somehow always end up with all of them at the end of the Middle ages.
The only times I don't get them is if I can win the game before the MA is over, but if that is the case, they would no longer be useful.

and some potentially useless, because you can conquer lux resources wonders, that you can conquer from the AI aswel.

I fixed you quote...

 

[Siaphi94]

why wouldnt you research military tradition even if you didnt have the sipahi?
The Cavalry can easily beat pike men (say your opponent dosent have slatpeter) then a Sipahi could easily beat muscketmen and thats their advantage. you need cavalry's to be succesful in war!

 

[Pyrrhos]

why wouldnt you research military tradition even if you didnt have the sipahi?

Because a beeline for Musical Theory will (well, might really but if you know how the AI plays... :wohoo: ) give me FIVE content faces in every town instead of five . Because of this, I can lower the lux tax significantly and put much more into research. With any civ, but especially a scientific one, those two wonders are like the afterburner on a jet fighter - now you see me, now you don't.

Of course I'd research Military Tradition, but I would never sacrifice the benefits that the Musical Theory research path would give me for the Sipahi! All other things being equal, by the time I have Musical Theory, you've just acquired Gunpowder. Because of my significantly shorter research time from then on (I "cheat" by prebuilding Palace and other wonders, then switch), by the time you reach MilTrad, I've climbed to Chemistry. When your Sipahi come calling, I've just mass-upgraded my Pikemen/Musketmen and might have the odd cannon stashed away too.

That's why!