[NFP] Babylon First Look

[DavidPBacon]

[/QUOTE] Like, my ideal system would be no technological tree, but to start researching a tech, you need to "unlock" it - this would be the role of the Eurekas - and once it's unlock, you could research it without any prerequesite. Of course, some Eurekas would be a previous tech, keeping the "tech tree" in some form (like, yeah, you need mining before iron working, that makes sense) but otherwise, each play would be different because the way you'll unlock the techs would be at first map dependent and then different on how you play or prioritize your civilization.

I really like Babylon for this and it's now one of my favourite civs.[/QUOTE]
I think you struck gold here, that at least would be a very good mode, if not incorporated into the main game.

 

[kryat]

I'd like to see the tech tree replaced too in future titles something like 'rings' or sub trees of related technologies thats more free form would be interesting.

A la, Beyond Earth’s tech web?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

A la, Beyond Earth’s tech web?

Beyond Earth had good concepts. The tech web was one of those.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

A la, Beyond Earth’s tech web?

Yeah, that could be a good direction its a shame more concepts from Beyond Earth did not make it to the civ games (I liked Rising Tides diplomacy).

Endless Legend also had techs seperated by era but you could research techs in any order but you needed to collect a minimum number of them before you could unlock the next era.

 

[Casualty of war]

Won a Babylon deity science victory.

Imo-- and this probably isn't a new observation-- but counterintuitively, science is probably their weakest victory type. At one point I was ~10 techs ahead of the nearest AI (Kongo), but hit a proverbial bottleneck once I couldn't generate anymore eurekas and was unable to steal techs from the AI; so much so, in fact, that it allowed Kongo to catch up (which worked in my favor as it gave me techs to steal). I did manage to "outscience" the AI, though that was due to a combination of the +4 university Great Scientist, powered research labs, communism and conquering my nearest neighbor (Germany).

in fairness, I may have been able to win ~30 - 40 turns earlier had I bothered to make more than 3 campuses for the majority of the game and run research projects. But I also could have won ~75 - 100 turns earlier had I gone all in with domination.

Kongo is great to have in the game because they will research Sanitation remarkably early and then you can swipe it with a Spy.

I think I finally put my finger on it. Babylon feels like playing Civ back when we could trade Techs with the AI, except we are generally just "trading" Builder charges with the aether and doing little fetch quests. I had never built 3 Biplanes before in my Civ 6 life before Babylon!

Now Heroes, that's some craziness right there. I got an early Hercules, after missing King Arthur, built two Districts in a blink and killed most of Alexander's attacking army. Heroes and Vampires go together like chocolate and peanut butter too.

 

[tedhebert]

Ok so finished my game, immortal huge map, with shuffle, secret and heroes.

Won diplo at turn 221, which is very fast for me. I'm usually more in the 275-300 turns range. Was leading in every facet of the game, 10 techs+ ahead of everyone, wiped brasil (because, heh, Pedro heh ?) but didn't feel like a dom game, had a huge faith economy.

So, I must rally with everyone by saying babylon IS OP... But still fun to play, very different game. I like it.

And I love heroes. For me, shuffle, secret societies and heroes will be on at all time. Apocalypse and Dramatic ages, never ! So 60% so far for the modes ;-) not bad, couting that I love ALL the new civs.

 

[KayAU]

Yeah, that could be a good direction its a shame more concepts from Beyond Earth did not make it to the civ games (I liked Rising Tides diplomacy)

Indeed, there was much to like in BERT, and I think it was just one expansion away from being a great game (as opposed to merely a good one). Diplomacy was certainly interesting, although it could do with some fine tuning IMO. Everybody seemed to care just a little bit too much about everything I did. If this was toned down a little bit, and if there was a Planetary Council like in SMAC to tie things together, it would be a lot better.

 

[DWilson]

Indeed, there was much to like in BERT, and I think it was just one expansion away from being a great game (as opposed to merely a good one). Diplomacy was certainly interesting, although it could do with some fine tuning IMO. Everybody seemed to care just a little bit too much about everything I did. If this was toned down a little bit, and if there was a Planetary Council like in SMAC to tie things together, it would be a lot better.

I also had the most fun with their espionage system.

 

[Guynemer]

It took forever to do anything with the espionage system, unfortunately. I did really enjoy the quest and artifact system, though.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

It took forever to do anything with the espionage system, unfortunately. I did really enjoy the quest and artifact system, though.

I also want the... How do I describe this? Ok, basically, you know when you build a Building, there was a chance to activate a quest, which would give your Buildings Boosts? For example, if you built a Vivarium, you could receive +1 Food or +1 Science from every Vivarium you built. I want something like that to Civ 6. Like, when you first build a Monument, you could choose if you want to receive +1 Faith or extra Loyalty as a bonus.

 

[KayAU]

@DWilson @Guynemer @Duke William of Normandy
I basically agree with all of you. The espionage system was good, but again could probably use a little bit of tuning, as it did take a while to get intrigue up to levels where you could do much. Quests and artifacts were great, I particularly enjoy early game exploration, with expeditions potentially giving you some great and interesting bonuses, especially when you get 3 artifacts to rub together. You could even earn unique building or wonders. The building quests would appear in every game, but they provided a nice and immersive way to customize your faction.

As I said, I think BERT could have used another expansion. Most of the systems were pretty good, but they could use a little tuning, and there was room for a couple more (such as a Planetary Council). I also would have loved to see more content within the solid framework that was already there. More quests, a couple of extra biomes, perhaps some natural wonders and a bit more variety to marvels, would have done a lot for the game.

 

[Josephias]

Yeah, I still miss that BEFS that did never happen (and just because you wonder what that FS means, I even already named the expansion in my mind as Beyond Earth: Falling Sky, as after Earth and Sea Tides, the Air/Space seemed the piece to complete the puzzle).

Many mechanics, as the commented diplomacy and artifact quests, as well as mixed affined were evolving nicely in BERT and could have had a second review to fine-tune or expand (in example, providing different final victories for the mixed affinities). And of course, game could have expanded with the addition of non-earthly (but also non-planet) species either based in the harmony/supremacy affinities or with his own "purity" path.

 

[reddishrecue]

The addition of Babylon has removed my interest in other bronze age civilizations like assyria or hittite. When I found out that there was limited space for a civilization from the middle east and Africa, Babylon came to my mind because Babylon has been there before since civilization 1. All of these reasons made me believe why Babylon was the one to come out.

Anyway, Babylon is such a good learning civilization because it gives players more experience in eurekas. You have to rely in eurekas to get Babylon technologies and not only that you'll get era progress points. Era points are so valuable.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Like I mentioned, they are a puzzle.

I know most don't but I like to do my scouting with Slingers, which is working out real well with Hammurabi. You can still clear a Barb Camp with just a Slinger if you approach so that you get the first shot at the Spearman and often you run into a stray Barb for the Eureka. If I've got excellent Gold, I will make several Slingers then upgrade them through the line to Crossbowmen; if I've got excellent Hammers, I get Archery ASAP and make one Slinger then Archers. The Archery Eureka or making an Archer is a frequently occurring City-State quest also, so bonus.

If you're going that route, you do have to be miserly with your Gold. If you could still sell Diplomatic Favor at a premium, this tactic would be preposterous; as it is it's just overwhelming. Sell off your luxuries and strategics for whatever bulk gold you can get. Sometimes you pick a fight just to pillage a Mine or bushwhack a trade route. Chop your Maize and Copper and Crabs.

I'm starting to get a feel for the triple-Mine start for the early Industrial Zone but following the Crossbowmen unit path. That second Crossbowman lets you build Pike and Shot, the IZ with a Workshop plus boosted Mines lets you build them at a decent pace and the combination of the two units eats most cities, even walled ones. It's not dependent on any strategic resources either, so you can sell any you happen upon.

The Palgum is great and I've started building them in any city I can. You recoup the hammers invested very quickly and the incidental food is amazing. That first one is 4 Era Score + Construction (often another Era Score) + the inspiration for Games and Rec.

I have not got Hammurabi figured out yet, but there's so much to work with there.

Yes, on my 8th restart I think I've finally got a handle on Babylon. I've got a relatively isolated start so was able to spread out a little bit and focus on building my military and picking off city states around me one by one, which has also helped me gain XP. Now I'm about to start my warmongering, Kupe first (I hate that guy).

You're right about the mines and archers and Xbows strategy. And I never build Pike and Shot, built one this game, holy crap they're amazing. Require no strategic resources and very powerful. Not having enough Niter is my biggest problem right now, to upgrade my Catapults and Swordsmen.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Yes, on my 8th restart I think I've finally got a handle on Babylon. I've got a relatively isolated start so was able to spread out a little bit and focus on building my military and picking off city states around me one by one, which has also helped me gain XP. Now I'm about to start my warmongering, Kupe first (I hate that guy).

You're right about the mines and archers and Xbows strategy. And I never build Pike and Shot, built one this game, holy crap they're amazing. Require no strategic resources and very powerful. Not having enough Niter is my biggest problem right now, to upgrade my Catapults and Swordsmen.

Given that the best the enemy could have Horseman, Swordsman, and probably Knights, your Pike and Shot don't exactly have a lot of competition. But still, they are pretty good.

 

[Deadly Dog]

Farming a resource so you can build a Pulgum so you can build lumbermills to trigger inspiration for Craftsmanship . Babylon is already shuffle mode.

I said earlier that playing Shuffle mode might be more a challenge for Babylon. I take it back. I don't think it matters they have their own route through the tech tree linked by eurekas.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I said earlier that playing Shuffle mode might be more a challenge for Babylon. I take it back. I don't think it matters they have their own route through the tech tree linked by eurekas.

I agree, Tech Shuffle is totally pointless with Babylon.

 

[King William I]

Farming a resource so you can build a Pulgum so you can build lumbermills to trigger inspiration for Craftsmanship . Babylon is already shuffle mode.

I said earlier that playing Shuffle mode might be more a challenge for Babylon. I take it back. I don't think it matters they have their own route through the tech tree linked by eurekas.

The real eurekas mod cuts down on jumping with tech shuffle on

 

[enKage]

Ok, can we mix Macedon / Babylon abilities please ?

 

[Equilin]

Ok, can we mix Macedon / Babylon abilities please ?

imagine getting full eurekas for future era techs