bad fire elementals! no soup for you!

[Caseus]

I'm playing the Svartalfar and having a wonderful time. I've got my three cities, by a miracle and some lucky goodie huts I managed to found FoL, I have hunters and warriors on my borders, I just got Alkazan built and I'm working on building assassins.

The Clan of Embers builds a city on my northern border. I ignore them as I'm busy with other things. The next turn 6 barbarian fire elementals stream through my borders, killing my hunters, warriors, workers and Alkazan and pillage as they advance on my cities. Game over man, game over!

What happened? How can I prevent that from happening in the future?

(Incidentally, I've been playing Civ since Civ 1 on the Amiga 500. Playing FFH reminds me of those first Civ games where everything was so new and fun and oh so addictive. The devs can have my firstborn...or my cat, since I don't have kids.)

 

[reveler]

If somebody pillages the Pyre of the Seraphic, you piss off some fire elementals and whoever pillages it gets a golden age. During the barbarian onslaught it gets pillaged quite often, so beware.

 

[Caseus]

If somebody pillages the Pyre of the Seraphic, you piss off some fire elementals and whoever pillages it gets a golden age. During the barbarian onslaught it gets pillaged quite often, so beware.

Wow. Good to know, thank you!

 

[BeefontheBone]

If the Clan do it, they're usually at peace with the elementals too, 's a neat trick

 

[MaxAstro]

Unfortunately, it's a neat trick that is entirely against the lore; the Clan should never, ever, ever pillage the Pyre...

 

[Blackmantle]

Yea, i belive its a bug as well. Before the last patch evil civs didn't get that quest, did they? That should be changed back.

And a Clan worshipping Lugus, Kilmorph or Junil thus turning away from Bhaal might indeed get the divine quest to do just that. So never, ever, ever seems a bit over the top.

 

[xienwolf]

Well the catch is that you don't need to "get the quest" to pillage the improvement.

A better approach might be to make the Pyre Permanent again, and use the Feats system to allow access to a spell which destroys the Pyre after you get the Quest assigned to you (any unit would be allowed to cast the spell).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't think Fire Elementals would like soup. Its mostly water, and might extinguish them if there was enough of it.

Well the catch is that you don't need to "get the quest" to pillage the improvement.

A better approach might be to make the Pyre Permanent again, and use the Feats system to allow access to a spell which destroys the Pyre after you get the Quest assigned to you (any unit would be allowed to cast the spell).

Yes, that would be a much better approach. I think that the Broken Sepulcher should work the same way, except maybe not need the feat. (In fact, why not make all improvements permanent add add spells for them? or just use Marnok's mod?)


The Sepulcher is really odd. The cv that should want to protect (Clan) it is the best to destroy it, and the civ that should want to destroy it (Mercurians, Bhall's angels are demons now after all, and they kill real angels) are the only ones that can use its ability to sacrifice an angel for a fire elementals (I know of no way for another civ to get an angel, except for Sphenor. You'd have to still be following The Order to Sacrifice him, which is also thematically incorrect.)

 

[Morni]

The Sepulcher is really odd. The cv that should want to protect (Clan) it is the best to destroy it, and the civ that should want to destroy it (Mercurians, Bhall's angels are demons now after all, and they kill real angels) are the only ones that can use its ability to sacrifice an angel for a fire elementals (I know of no way for another civ to get an angel, except for Sphenor. You'd have to still be following The Order to Sacrifice him, which is also thematically incorrect.)

Does Brigit count as an angel?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah, I guess she does.

 

[KillerClowns]

Besides, who's going to sacrifice a hero for a fire elemental?
EDIT: Maybe this will become more useful in a scenario...

 

[Morni]

Besides, who's going to sacrifice a hero for a fire elemental?
EDIT: Maybe this will become more useful in a scenario...

The bad guys!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, you do get 7 times as many fire elementals if you sacrifice a world unit.

Doesn't it seem like if Bhall Spared Brigit once she might do so again? I think I'll make the spell create a UNIT_BRIGIT_HELD on the Ring of Carcer's plot if Brigit is Sacrificed.

 

[Blackmantle]

You can get angels via Law 3 and maybe also by sanctifying a graveyard (Lawbringers are Angels i belive.) i think.

 

[xienwolf]

Fortunately Temporary Units aren't allowed to cast the spell, otherwise that would be quite overpowered But the Law Bringers from Graveyards are not temporary, so they can be converted to Fire Elementals at the Pyre.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't really think that sacrificing limited duration angels would be overpowered, you'd just need to set the Fire Elementals' duration to the same number as the Angel's.

I'd forgotten about Lawbringers from Graveyards.

Unrelated, but how were Law Bringers blocked from attacking non-evil civs? I don't think they are anymore, so it might not be so easy to copy, but I was thinking having abilities to block attacks like that would be quite nice for my modmod.

 

[Uberness]

Seems abit unfair to be able to unleash 6 2 movement 9 strength collateral damage units around the start of the game, especially if your clan or doviello.

 

[jimi12]

when you raze the pyre, do you destroy the fire mana too?

 

[Pyr0mancer]

when you raze the pyre, do you destroy the fire mana too?

Nope. You do have to go build a fire node on it to hook it up again though.

MagisterCultuum - That sounds good, but it's also extremely easily exploitable, since you could simply park a level 15 unit at the Ring and run Brigit from the Ring to the Pyre repeatedly for infinite fire elementals.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't think its so bad, considering it requires a level 15 unit and 2 unique features. It is unlikely that it would be possible in most games. Where it is, you'd probably have the game won by then anyway. Plus, it isn't instant. The Features might be on opposite sides of the world.