Bad news: Next patch on hold

[warpstorm]

But I think something else should play a major role for these companies as well, that is that whether the masses download their patch or not, they are obliged to deliver the product including the functions and possibilities that they have promised it to have, in exchange for the product price the customers paid for it.
If then they do not fulfill their part of the deal, by giving us a product that does not do what it should do (and as for the scientific GA, they've advertised with it, and developed it with the same people that were responsible for the end-product of C3C, even added buttons for it in the game, but the function itself has never been included in the product), I expect and should, from my customer point of view, demand for the product to be fixed to at least such a state that it fulfills to the description given by the developers and publishers at the time of release.

Read your EULA. It is exactly this. You had some time (90 days IIRC) to return the game to Atari for a refund if it didn't meet your needs. Did you? You agreed to be bound by the terms of the contract (Whether this is legal and binding in your jurisdiction is unknown. It is in mine.)

 

[warpstorm]

they shouldn't put in and advertise with these non-implemented features in the first place, nor make promises they can't keep. By doing so, I do in a sense feel betrayed by this company, as I paid for stuff I do not get in the end.

What did you not get?

As far as promises go, what were you promised and where?

Would you rather that games came in a plain brown wrapper and the developers didn't talk about what they would like to include in their next game at all?

 

[Kemal]

I did not get my Age of scientific discovery, which Firaxis not only put down in their manual as a function of a scientific great leader, but also implemented the buttons for in the game itself but where it doesn't work. In several reviews/publications I've read about this function to be present in the game from day one and never have I seen Firaxis give a reaction that this was not (going to be) the case.

Instead, they pledged to patch the problems in a patch to be released around june 2004 (way past my 90 days warranty of course) and at the end of may 2004 the patch suddenly won't be there after all and they abandon support for the game.

As for Firaxis checking who I am on the forum, I've no aspiration, nor do I have the qualifcations to be working for a development company like them anytime soon, so for me, my interests lie in getting the game I want *including* those features that should be in it according to the developers and publishers. If they decide not do that by stopping game support, I'm really disappointed in them, even though the game itself is still the best around probably (at least IMO).

Finally, as for Firaxis using the community to see where the problems are in their games and how to improve them, I very much appreciate this don't get me wrong, but again, it is disappointing to then see that they do not seem to use this input from the community (to its full potential), i.e. by messing with the FP when the large part of the community thought it was working fine the PTW way, and not fixing those problems that have been brought up time and time again, such as the AI armies bug, submarine bug and several others.

So to finalize my opinion on this matter, I do think C3C is a great game, but the way Firaxis has handled the support for it has, as civ-players say, caused a (slight) reputation and attitude hit with me. Whether they care about that, probably not I guess, but it is still the way I feel about it.

 

[warpstorm]

i.e. by messing with the FP when the large part of the community thought it was working fine the PTW way

Actually, it was because of the complaints of the people here that it was changed.

 

[Kemal]

I know, complaints by certain (influential) people (partially I suppose, since they themselves claim that they wanted it to function as in their original plans) caused them to change it, but I also remember a poll by a well respected forum member resulting in a massive amount of people voting in favour of keeping the FP the way it worked in PTW, but that poll result was never taken into account at any stage it seems.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Warpstorm:

You had some time (90 days IIRC) to return the game to Atari for a refund if it didn't meet your needs.

I cannot imagine any country in the world where you could return a game or music cd because the content isn't as expected - the Artist cannot sing, the FP isn't working as promised,...
Technical problems, yes (like the 'best of Atari' mess).

@Kemal: Wasn't that poll done when nobody had seen the 1.22 way? Surely everyone would prefer the ptw way over the c3c unpatched or pre-1.15 modell...
btw, I love the new FP. Have you ever played ptw again? Noticed how ridiculous it was?

 

[Longasc]

We all should not buy Civ4 if they do not give Civ3 the required final patching.
We should also go to stores and prevent people from buying Civ4.

OK, let's be serious...
HECK - HOW can we get the gaming industry to stop shipping buggy games and stop patching them before everything is fixed???

The masses still buy the games, this is the problem. The gaming industry gets away with this far too often!

If I/we would buy Civ4 now, after Civ3 is left unpatched perhaps, we would basically agree and support this nonsense...

This applies to every game on the market right now. No car company could afford delivering such flawed products and get away with this.


BTW: warpstorm - do you want a job at Firaxis?
Then I would finally understand your support for them regarding wasting no ressources on patching!

 

[Kemal]

@Doc T: yes, eventually things worked out fine with the FP, and yes I am happy with it. But at that time, with regard to Firaxis listening to its customers here in this community, most of the people wanted bugs to be fixed rather than the FP to be revamped it seems to me.

And while I do think the FP is fine this way, I still also play PTW in several PBEMs, and I personally have no problem with the way the FP works in PTW at all, even after c3c 1.22. But that's just my opinion, I like building large empires I guess..

 

[socralynnek]

BTW: warpstorm - do you want a job at Firaxis?
Then I would finally understand your support for them regarding wasting no ressources on patching!

Maybe he is already working for Firaxis, maybe he is Soren himself...
You never know...

But, my two cents, I have seen much more buggy games, but I think, unfinished products can fall back on the Company in games magazines, I have seen a lot of bad news in some magazines, but it won't be for C3C because the bugs are annoying but the game is really playable.
But I'd like to see a patch fixing the most important things.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Personnaly, if you ask me, I think that Civ3 got pretty good game support compared to other games in the market.

Civ3 original got patched nicely, PtW got patched nicely.
Unfortunately C3C got patched not to nicely.

And that really bugs me.
If this is really the last patch, that means that the game will be played in this state for next 2-3year (until Civ4 comes).

I don't think I could stand debilized barabrians for all that time.
And it's too good game to be left in this state.

I just have some small hope that after Pirates and Civ3:Complete got finished (main resaons why patch got on hold, NOT Civ4), that someone from Firaxis, will take pity on us and maybe make another patch.

After all, nobody said that there will no be new Civ3 patches ever (just that they are not planned in near future).

 

[Yashed To]

I don't know what it's like in Germany, but in America, getting the lawyers involved is basically an admission of defeat.

"ummmm........", I was talking about laws, not lawyers. Lawyers tend to appear when laws don't handle a situation sufficiently.

But then, maybe this would work. A $ 50 million suit against Firaxis for destroying my spare time and thus deeply affecting my social life, abandoning my family, stress handling at my day time job due to sleepless nights, etc. - all because of a still buggy game, which I was forced to play because of all their tempting advertisement and false promises, too weak to resist.
Add some testimonials from doctors and psychologists, heck, your nanny. Media attention would be yours and hardly any game company would ever dare to publish an incomplete game again.

Jus' dreamin', folks ...

 

[alexman]

After all, nobody said that there will no be new Civ3 patches ever (just that they are not planned in near future).

I think there will be no more patches because Firaxis gave Civ3:Complete as a reason for the 'on-hold' status of the patch.

If Civ3:Complete did not need to include the final patch, Firaxis could have been working on the patch independently of the release of Civ3:Complete. But since Civ3:Complete is listed as a reason to hold up Firaxis programmers, and a compilation of existing software is the job of Atari, not Firaxis, the conclusion is that Civ3:Complete will include the final patch. Since the patch is on-hold until after Civ3:Complete, that means that Civ3:Complete will ship with 1.22, which will be the final patch.

 

[Yashed To]

That's fine with me, as long as they still release a separate patch for C3C after publishing Civ3:Complete.

Or does Atari really believe, gamers who own C3, PTW and C3C will also buy C3: Complete simply because it might include a final patch?!?

Surely this would be the priciest patch ever released!

 

[ummmm........]

"ummmm........", I was talking about laws, not lawyers.

Okay, I'm gonna let you go, just because you are the only person who has ever bothered to spell my name right.

 

[alexman]

That's fine with me, as long as they still release a separate patch for C3C after publishing Civ3:Complete.

That's my point, there will be no other patch after Civ3:Complete. Otherwise there would be no reason for Civ3:Complete's release to affect Firaxis programmers.

 

[warpstorm]

HECK - HOW can we get the gaming industry to stop shipping buggy games and stop patching them before everything is fixed???

Be willing to pay more and wait longer for games or switch to a subscription model.

The games industry, while profitable, has a fairly thin profit margin as is. Putting the QA resources and discipline (this is ultimately the root of the problem - which won't be fixed unless your replaced all the current game developers with business type software developers) in to do this, would lower that. It can't come for free.

do you want a job at Firaxis?

No, I'm not currently looking for a game development job at Firaxis. I work for one of their competitors. But I do occasionally run into the guys at Firaxis around town.

 

[player1 fanatic]

I think there will be no more patches because Firaxis gave Civ3:Complete as a reason for the 'on-hold' status of the patch.

If Civ3:Complete did not need to include the final patch, Firaxis could have been working on the patch independently of the release of Civ3:Complete. But since Civ3:Complete is listed as a reason to hold up Firaxis programmers, and a compilation of existing software is the job of Atari, not Firaxis, the conclusion is that Civ3:Complete will include the final patch. Since the patch is on-hold until after Civ3:Complete, that means that Civ3:Complete will ship with 1.22, which will be the final patch.

From first post by Tavis:

...I realize I made some heavy promises back in January, but I am not going to be able to delivery on them. I refuse to deliver another patch that launches like v21 (or worse) so at this point I can't make anymore promises. I have no idea when a patch will be made privately available or publically available."

-on hold (not canceled)
-no promises
-no idea when, not will be available
-history of firaxis making patches for long obsolete games (SMAC)

 

[Antrine]

Well alexman has hit it cold, with logic that would make a clock work unfortunately.

Is this a good time to pre-sale, sub-license my upcoming vaper mod, [of course, send money or fame first]. For this may be as good as it gets you all!!!



Don't you just love these new smilies!

 

[asleepathewheel]

wasn't that patch for smax just an XP compatability fix?

 

[Sukenis]

wasn't that patch for smax just an XP compatability fix?

Considering when SMAX came out, I was surpised to see a compatability patch released at all. Most games do not do this kind of support. In fact, I bought Civ 3 when I did because I had gotten a new computer with XP on it and SMAC/SMAX no longer worked and I needed my tbsg fix.