So when you have a bad start, do you keep playing or restart? For the purposes of this thread I'm not including having 7 warriors show up on your doorstep at turn 15 when you are unprepared. That's game over, and obviously playing on isn't an option. I'm talking about within the first 50 to 100 turns when things take a turn for a worse. Or perhaps 30 to 75 turns on normal speed (I'm currently on epic). I've been trying a couple of Spain games, I'm trying to make them work on a Terra map, but having some bad starts. After one bad start I dropped the difficulty level. After getting a holy site/shrine to try to get a religion, I turn my attention towards Russia. As I'm attacking Russia which I had problems with because mountains prevented me from getting adequate troops in their lone city (2 of their settlers were taken by barbarians). Australia who I previously had a declaration of friendship with attacked me. Had to divert troops, which meant I was unable to take St. Petersburg. I just peaced out. I really don't want to abandon 2 games in a row. I really want to stick this out. If it was deity I would restart in a heartbeat. But I think I can recover from this even though I'm still at 2 cities. I captured one of those above mentioned settlers, built another (had to turn him back because of Australian troops threatening to capture it), and I should eventually be able to get that other former Russian settler from the barbs (currently the barbs outnumber me, but eventually I'll get reinforcements over there). It's just tough when you spend a lot of hammers building a military force, and get nothing out of it. I want to force myself to play this game, almost punishment in a way for my mistake (I attacked Russia a little too early I think, and crowded his borders too early as well causing him to switch to agoge and really pump out troops). And I want to use this thread to complain about John Curtin. There's something seriously wrong with him. He's a worse backstabber than Catherine. I made a declaration of friendship with him for the sole purpose of not having to worry about him when I went after Russia. But it took a little longer than expected to get my holy site/shrine up and running and get sufficient troops out. At this point I'll turn my troops towards John Curtin, I just hope it's not too late. He can get strong fast.