Balanced Ancient Era Start

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Yeah that happens. That's one reason I don't make a document with all the buildings, because it would take just as long to chnage them that it is to mod them.

So I assume you will be adding the NewCityFree code to all the buildings? I ask this because after working on ls612's re-balancing of building costs and Praetyre's building requirments I never want to have to edit every single building ever again. Twice is enough (plus minor tweaks).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Yeah that happens. That's one reason I don't make a document with all the buildings, because it would take just as long to chnage them that it is to mod them.

So I assume you will be adding the NewCityFree code to all the buildings? I ask this because after working on ls612's re-balancing of building costs and Praetyre's building requirments I never want to have to edit every single building ever again. Twice is enough (plus minor tweaks).

It will be a group of modmods eventually. Mostly because some people don't like having buildings in their cities with negative effects.

We may merge some of it back in to the core areas but I doubt that will be for a version or two. The other reason for doing some of this is to identify the free era stuff.

Even then we don't have everything covered with XML. As I mentioned elsewhere we use Python to add buildings to a new city that normally would require larger populations.

 

[strategyonly]

Even then we don't have everything covered with XML. As I mentioned elsewhere we use Python to add buildings to a new city that normally would require larger populations.

Can you give 1 example of this pls, thx.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@AIAndy the NewCityFree tag is not working as expected. I am not sure if it is building the buildings free when you build a new city but it is allowing buildings to be built in old cities that don't have the resources for them. Eg I have henna in the vicinity of one city but having Henna Gatherer free to new cities at tribalism means that I can build the building in all my cities.

Can you give 1 example of this pls, thx.

The pioneer or colonist (settler units) build a lighthouse in new coastal cities even though it, the lighthouse, normally requires a population of 6.

 

[strategyonly]

The pioneer or colonist (settler units) build a lighthouse in new coastal cities even though it, the lighthouse, normally requires a population of 6.

So what has python got to do with this then?? Am i lost again

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The only way those units can build those buildings is via python. That bit of python has been around since RoM.

 

[strategyonly]

The only way those units can build those buildings is via python. That bit of python has been around since RoM.

OK i finally see what your talking about, nice!!

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Here is a list of buildings on your list I think should never be auto-built at tech.

- BUILDINGCLASS_BOOBY_TRAPS
- BUILDINGCLASS_CROSSES
- BUILDINGCLASS_FIGHTING_PIT
- BUILDINGCLASS_MECHANICAL_TRAPS
- BUILDINGCLASS_LANDMINES_TRAPS
- BUILDINGCLASS_GAMBLINGDEN
- BUILDINGCLASS_PUBLIC_STONING

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Here is a list of buildings on your list I think should never be auto-built at tech.

- BUILDINGCLASS_BOOBY_TRAPS
- BUILDINGCLASS_CROSSES
- BUILDINGCLASS_FIGHTING_PIT
- BUILDINGCLASS_MECHANICAL_TRAPS
- BUILDINGCLASS_LANDMINES_TRAPS
- BUILDINGCLASS_GAMBLINGDEN
- BUILDINGCLASS_PUBLIC_STONING

None are ever auto built. I am talking about free in a city when it is built. I may agree with the traps and gambling den but not with the rest.

 

[AIAndy]

@AIAndy the NewCityFree tag is not working as expected. I am not sure if it is building the buildings free when you build a new city but it is allowing buildings to be built in old cities that don't have the resources for them. Eg I have henna in the vicinity of one city but having Henna Gatherer free to new cities at tribalism means that I can build the building in all my cities.

Given that the NewCityFree tag only has code that is effective in the founding code of new cities that sounds unlikely.
Can you give me an example of the XML you used there?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Given that the NewCityFree tag only has code that is effective in the founding code of new cities that sounds unlikely.
Can you give me an example of the XML you used there?

two pictures first without the second with and the attached mod. Uncompress it into the My_Mods folder

 

[Hydromancerx]

None are ever auto built. I am talking about free in a city when it is built. I may agree with the traps and gambling den but not with the rest.

But do they follow building requirements if build in a new city? For instance if they have a city size requirement or a resource vicinity requirement?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

But do they follow building requirements if build in a new city? For instance if they have a city size requirement or a resource vicinity requirement?

They (NewCityFree) should, which is why I am only looking at buildings which have size requirement 0, 1 or none. However we already have in game two units that ignore population requirements when they settle a new city, ie the Colonist and the Pioneer.

Colonist(TECH_COLONIALISM) gives in new city

Population 3
BARRACKS, GRANARY, FORGE, MARKET
if coastal also gives HARBOR, LIGHTHOUSE, FISHERMAN_HUT
​

Pioneer(TECH_STEAM_POWER) gives in new city

Population 4
GARRISON, GRANARY, FORGE, COURTHOUSE, MARKET, STABLE, GROCER, DOCTOR, BANK, LIBRARY
if coastal also gives PORT, LIGHTHOUSE, FISHERMAN_HUT
​

Given that the Great Bath gives one extra population perhaps I should be looking at buildings that require population of less than 5.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah those were inherited from RoM/AND so I am less mad about them. However we should possibly fix them. I also think maybe we should have another Settler in the line. I am not sure where it would be placed.

In addition we will need to think about future space colonist and/or Colony Pods too.

 

[AIAndy]

two pictures first without the second with and the attached mod. Uncompress it into the My_Mods folder

1) NewCityFree is a boolean expression tag so instead of

<NewCityFree>TECH_ADVANCED_METALLURGY</NewCityFree>

you need to use this:

<NewCityFree>
  <Has>
    <GOMType>GOM_TECH</GOMType>
    <ID>TECH_ADVANCED_METALLURGY</ID>
  </Has>
</NewCityFree>

2) The problem you see is probably not because of NewCityFree but because the effect of some tag is not properly inherited. So we need to find out which (some vicinity tag from your observations) and fix the copyNonDefaults code in the DLL for it.

EDIT: Yes, the copyNonDefaults code for PrereqVicinityBonus is missing. I'll fix it.
EDIT2: Fixed in newest SVN now.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I put up a mod awhile back which sets a number of buildings to be free at a given tech. I think the notification was in the SVN so no one has actually been testing the concept.

It is in My_Mods(Unloaded) and is called NewCityFree. Just move it into the My_Mods folder to activate it. It is very preliminary so far.

Yeah those were inherited from RoM/AND so I am less mad about them. However we should possibly fix them.

I am getting more and more angry over the population requirement for buildings. It just makes no sense. The number of people that makes up a city greatly varies between countries but the definition of a city is about what buildings/infrastructure it has. It is more about the organisation and general wealth in the city not the population. Even then there are other factors, some political, that determines what is in a city.

 

[Yudishtira]

I am getting more and more angry over the population requirement for buildings. It just makes no sense. The number of people that makes up a city greatly varies between countries but the definition of a city is about what buildings/infrastructure it has. It is more about the organisation and general wealth in the city not the population. Even then there are other factors, some political, that determines what is in a city.

I totally agree. Shipwright only at size 6? Maths Academy only at size 13? You should be able to found a city just for shipbuilding - and why shouldn't you build the Shipwright there before the Rock Gatherer if you want to?

 

[platyping]

Just curious, are the pioneer and colonist codes done via python or sdk?
If python I wonder if there is a way without using CyInterface()

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just curious, are the pioneer and colonist codes done via python or sdk?
If python I wonder if there is a way without using CyInterface()

Python code.

 

[platyping]

So is it done via CyInterface().getHeadSelectedUnit()?

There is a bug with it which I cannot overcome, which is why I did mine in another method, which is not 100% foolproof though.