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Balancing weak traits

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Dr. Salvador, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. Orion Pax

    Orion Pax Chieftain

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    I seem to be necroing posts so... :shifty:

    I really dig this idea. While yes I value CRE for rexing, something that builds more culture seems right. 10% is modest enough but rewards culture building. Could probably keep the base :culture: at +2 with the +10% :culture: and it still would be fair?

    I will say though, Pericles’ UB, the Odeon, is half-priced as CRE leader and gives +2 :), +3 :culture:, and 2 Artist slots all at a crucial time with an important tech. Not too shabby especially towards curltural victory.

    IMP seems in real need of upgrade as many have pointed out.. Settler bonus seems much less useful after early rexing and it only bonuses :hammers:s not :food:s. Both should get the bonus. Another good suggestion has been adding a non-military imperialistic benefit, i.e. economic? Perhaps half-price Customs Houses? Or domestic trade routes 2X in value?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  2. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I wouldn't make CRE any better, it's borderline OP in some situations as it is. PRO is the only trait that really needs something (oh and overflow into :gold: still works in BUFFY... :hmm:). I'd certainly welcome IMP getting some small bonus, but half-priced customs house is still pretty much a pile of poop. Half-priced jail? Still very underwhelming of course...
     
  3. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    Imperialistic could get half priced Monuments and Protective +1 Espionage in all cities?
     
    Orion Pax likes this.
  4. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Sounds fun, and would make PRO a strong trait already I guess.
     
  5. ArchGhost

    ArchGhost Chieftain

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    The thing about that though, is the theme of the IMP trait is aggressive expansion -- imperialism. When expansion is over it makes sense that you only have the aggression part left. Giving it economic help is turning it into more eclectic than that purpose. The idea itself is solid (an extensive empire should offer some lucrative benefit) but not sure how it should be implemented, given that ORG and FIN already kind of have that cornered.

    Thinking along the lines military, what about something like reduced unit upkeep/upgrade cost/cities support more free units? That way an IMP leader can fund the conquering legions more easily but not necessarily anything else.

    I like the cheap monument idea for sure (seems like that shoulda been half-price already somewhere, like SPI trait) but that also makes it less distinct from CRE's early game advantages.
     
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  6. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    +100% GG rate is actually underrated, as they can turn average rush forces into really good ones.

    Best would be if all traits have similar bonuses that are not always perfectly useful esp early,
    so tuning Phi, Cre etc down instead would make the game better imo.
    More buffed traits adds advantages for us against AIs, not what i'd be looking for.
     
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  7. Orion Pax

    Orion Pax Chieftain

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    Ah I like that a lot - reduced unit upkeep. I do think IMP trait is both aggression and empire focused though, especially given the settler bonus also? The Customs House idea is less enticing to me, but the bonus for in-empire trade routes is still seems interesting - it rewards conquest because it’s about establishing control over trade. It would dovetail with Mercantilism well (which needs a buff anyway), which would be fitting. Your point about similarity with traits like ORG & FIN is taken though.

    Oh and PRO getting a :espionage: bonus seems right. Could make it defensive even?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  8. cseanny

    cseanny Chieftain

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    Pray Sitting Bull doesn't show up in your games!!
     
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  9. Orion Pax

    Orion Pax Chieftain

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    Haha.. too true. Defensive though, the bonus should be, like: Missions against you cost +10% :espionage: more or something.
     
  10. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Chieftain

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    I always thought PRO could use something like +1:traderoute:, being focussed on defending their land and keeping it safe. It wouldn't be overly powerful early game (less bonus :commerce: than Financial, surely), but later on it'd encourage securing (and being, you know, protective of) a Vassal so you can run Mercantilism while maintaining foreign trade routes. PRO would also be better if it's two cheap buildings weren't so unreliable - the defensive bonus doesn't apply if you're defending against Gunpowder units, both buildings are eventually obsoleted by tech, and if you obsolete Walls (Rifling) before you obsolete Castles (Economics) you won't be able to freely build the latter anymore because they require Walls that you can no longer build.
     
  11. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    Spiritual is one of the best warmonger traits in the game
     
  12. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    I think those that consider it weak don't know how to use it right.
     
  13. Orion Pax

    Orion Pax Chieftain

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    ^Agreed. Don’t think it should have been included in the original post.

    Spiritual gives incredible flexibility throughout the game, allowing you to maximize empire-wide benefits for what you need when you need it. The building bonus also has upward potential given how many temples you can build, either for quick :)/:culture: or for Cathedrals.
     
  14. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    AP temples are nice, but I'm usually trying to destroy it. Even though I'm learning how to better deal with it. (thanks to the experts here)
     

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