Ballista Elephant/Commando

[MCan]

I'm pretty sure that you can't get march on artillery... am I mistaken?
I didn't think they could get medic promotions.

Yea you are. You can make march artillery but the cant get blitz or commando. And while tanks get blitz and commando they cant get march. I double checked.

So I guess my WP/GG city should pump out the tanks and the Red Cross city should handle artillery. Games usually end before I could make great use of all this. But I can always just turn certain conditions off.

 

[MCan]

Not artillery, i'm referring entirely to nukes!

You can use them to clear a city of defenders then use a Commandos abilities to take that, and perhaps other cities. Its great fun to take 2 or 3 cities in one turn with a single Commando unit

Nukes. Dont like them all that much. They should cost more. One thing I wonder is there more ivory or uranium in the world. In civ theres always more uranuim. I mean Barnum and Baily dont have a nuke show! Whats with that?

I used Paratroopers to grab undefended cities that was funny. Just drops right in!

 

[theskibum]

Nukes. Dont like them all that much. They should cost more. One thing I wonder is there more ivory or uranium in the world. In civ theres always more uranuim. I mean Barnum and Baily dont have a nuke show! Whats with that?

I used Paratroopers to grab undefended cities that was funny. Just drops right in!

Surely you've heard of Barnum and Bailey's enriched weapons grade uranium project? Its the glowiest show on earth!

 

[s.bernbaum]

I'm pretty sure that you can't get march on artillery... am I mistaken?
I didn't think they could get medic promotions.

Yes, artillery can get medic promotions. In a recent game, I was building marines in my Red Cross city so they would all have medic one. I needed some extra artillery in a hurry, so I built some there instead of marines for a few units. They all came out with the Red Cross's medic one promotion.

 

[A_Hamster]

In someone's personal mod, he modded the ballista elephant to be an regular war elephant but resourceless. That would make it a much more useful UU, as opposed to the present situation where much of the time you can't use your UU as Ivory is much rarer than Iron, Copper, or Horses.

Other than that problem, how do other people feel about Sury and the Khmer in general? I haven't played the Khmer enough to have a firm opinion, but while the civ/leader combo isn't a worldbeater, it isn't bad either.

As a AI, he's a nusiance though, always crowding you with culture. Not very warlike usually, so one can let him build some wonders then capture them.

 

[theskibum]

In someone's personal mod, he modded the ballista elephant to be an regular war elephant but resourceless. That would make it a much more useful UU, as opposed to the present situation where much of the time you can't use your UU as Ivory is much rarer than Iron, Copper, or Horses.

Other than that problem, how do other people feel about Sury and the Khmer in general? I haven't played the Khmer enough to have a firm opinion, but while the civ/leader combo isn't a worldbeater, it isn't bad either.

As a AI, he's a nusiance though, always crowding you with culture. Not very warlike usually, so one can let him build some wonders then capture them.

I find Sury to be consistently doing well as an AI. There are some you can count on to always fail (Gandhi comes to mind), but Sury tends to do well in my games. He still isn't on par with the likes of Shaka, Zara and Gilgamesh though. In my games those three are always serious contenders.

 

[kochman]

In someone's personal mod, he modded the ballista elephant to be an regular war elephant but resourceless. That would make it a much more useful UU, as opposed to the present situation where much of the time you can't use your UU as Ivory is much rarer than Iron, Copper, or Horses.

Other than that problem, how do other people feel about Sury and the Khmer in general? I haven't played the Khmer enough to have a firm opinion, but while the civ/leader combo isn't a worldbeater, it isn't bad either.

As a AI, he's a nusiance though, always crowding you with culture. Not very warlike usually, so one can let him build some wonders then capture them.

Ah, so you could have a war elephant without actually having the elephant!

 

[lymond]

Other than the Ballista, I find Khmer to be an excellent civ to play. Creative and Expansive are superlative traits and I'm in the camp that thinks the Baray is a decent UB. I can't recall his starting tech at the moment, but I believe he at least starts with mining. Khmer allows for big empires with a lot of pop.

 

[A_Hamster]

I find Sury to be consistently doing well as an AI. There are some you can count on to always fail (Gandhi comes to mind), but Sury tends to do well in my games. He still isn't on par with the likes of Shaka, Zara and Gilgamesh though. In my games those three are always serious contenders.

*Nod* Same in my experience, Sury is not a top runner, but definitely a contender. Shaka makes me nervous since that AI is turned WELL, unlike Monty. In my experience, Joao can do well provided he doesn't get crushed early. Later, since he usually expands well, he'll have enough cities to make up for the low UnitBuildProb.

Ah, so you could have a war elephant without actually having the elephant!

I think that was the modder's idea. While it might be unfair that in that mod the Khmer will always get to build their UU, at least it spares you the player the need to regen the map a dozen times until you get Ivory.

Creative and Expansive are superlative traits

Hmm ... perhaps I'm not using EXP well. Is it mainly the cheap Workers and Granaries?

 

[theskibum]

Hmm ... perhaps I'm not using EXP well. Is it mainly the cheap Workers and Granaries?

That and each city gets +2 health I believe. Very good if you have some heavy food cities.

 

[Windsor]

All creative civs are nice to play, Sury is no exception. Expansive is a nice solid trait. So you get free border pops, cheap libraries, cheap granaries and workers. All that makes for an easy start where the cities will start to pay for themselves fast rather than be a drain on the economy for many turns. I agree with lymond on the Baray. Hunting+mining as starting techs is one of the better combos.

Really, the only bad thing about him is the Ballista and the city names.

 

[lymond]

Hmm ... perhaps I'm not using EXP well. Is it mainly the cheap Workers and Granaries?

most important unit and the most important building...and the extra health. EXP cities can get cities up and running fast and the whipping started earlier. It is personally my favorite trait, although I do like it paired with another nice trait like...say....Creative. Pacal is my favorite leader.

 

[theskibum]

most important unit and the most important building...and the extra health. EXP cities can get cities up and running fast and the whipping started earlier. It is personally my favorite trait, although I do like it paired with another nice trait like...say....Creative. Pacal is my favorite leader.

Pacal is EXP/FIN though! I think you like Sury best!
Seriously though, Pacal is in the same boat as Sury, great traits (my fav. pairing) decent UB and poor UU, although admittedly not as poor as the ballista elephant

 

[A_Hamster]

most important unit and the most important building...and the extra health. EXP cities can get cities up and running fast and the whipping started earlier. It is personally my favorite trait, although I do like it paired with another nice trait like...say....Creative. Pacal is my favorite leader.

*Smacks forehead* Right, the whipping! Forgot about that, and I've even been using it more. (Right now, I'm playing a mod where I can't use Slavery and I'm missing the option.) Anyway, thanks to all who answered.

As for CRE, I don't need convincing there. My usual playstyle involves making a Super Science City with the GL and running as many GS specialists as the food will allow. Any city with some commerce gets a Library, so cheap libraries are even better. With Pericles one gets cheap Universities as well ... for Science!

Oh yes, and another great thing when playing Pericles of Greece is the ease of cultural warfare along the borders. Theatre, Library, and Odeon, all cheaper and the Odeon also gives culture as well as happiness.

 

[lasombra1984]

Khmer are butthurt for Unit-dependat civs (Byzantines or Mongols).
Crossbows & Pikes will sadly watch cataphracts dying.)

 

[lymond]

Pacal is EXP/FIN though! I think you like Sury best!
Seriously though, Pacal is in the same boat as Sury, great traits (my fav. pairing) decent UB and poor UU, although admittedly not as poor as the ballista elephant

I can see the confusion, but those were two separate thoughts. My mention of "Creative" was a wink to the topic at hand and the Pacal comment just an aside.

As for Pacal's UB, the Ball Court is excellent and totally synergistic with his traits. Pacal can get up some seriously large cities early. As for the UU, while not overpowering, I'd say it's definitely not "Poor". Holkans are very handy on barb defense on higher levels and the fact that they are resourceless means archery is not necessary. On lower levels, since the Holkan ignores first strikes, Holkan rushes are not out of the questions, even up to IMM. The only bad thing about Pacal is his Myst starting tech, although it can lead to a FIN fueled rush to Oracle. I'd still rather not have Myst.

 

[vranasm]

Exp + Cre is imo absolute killer combination, but ironic enough I don't play Khmer enough.

Dunno why, on paper it's absolutely awesome, cheap Granary, Library, 2 buildings you build in almost every city (granary being the building in every city probably).
So it almost feels like having 2 UB's above your "normal" UB.

Not enough love for Khmer in the forum.

And in the hands of AI is Khmer one of the most dangerous AI's. The AI probably knows better then us humans!

Now that we talk about it. This evening I will roll some game with Khmer... well depending how the Russians with Can will play.

 

[unscratchedfoot]

Deadliest Warrior has an episode on an elephant ballista versus a navy seal.

 

[theskibum]

I can see the confusion, but those were two separate thoughts. My mention of "Creative" was a wink to the topic at hand and the Pacal comment just an aside.

As for Pacal's UB, the Ball Court is excellent and totally synergistic with his traits. Pacal can get up some seriously large cities early. As for the UU, while not overpowering, I'd say it's definitely not "Poor". Holkans are very handy on barb defense on higher levels and the fact that they are resourceless means archery is not necessary. On lower levels, since the Holkan ignores first strikes, Holkan rushes are not out of the questions, even up to IMM. The only bad thing about Pacal is his Myst starting tech, although it can lead to a FIN fueled rush to Oracle. I'd still rather not have Myst.

I wasn't really confused...I was sort of poking fun for your random interjection on Pacal

I see your points on the Holkan and agree on the barb defense issue. I've not tried an early Holkan rush, but I can't see it as very effective unless your nearest neighbor is literally on top of you and you rush out a couple Holkans to take his capital fast.

Maybe I would just rather rush with axes or chariots.

 

[MCan]

Deadliest Warrior has an episode on an elephant ballista versus a navy seal.

Who wins?