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Barbarian cities in Civ 3

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Civinator, May 28, 2019.

  1. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    I will try my best and give a link to this thread. :)
     
  2. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    Dangit. I have Oz's email address somewhere, but hadn't heard of or from him in a couple of years now. :/


    Anyway, more on topic. You say the barbarian cities cannot have culture. Have you tried giving them buildings that give negative culture? I wonder how the game engine would interpret that.
     
  3. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    No, I didn´t - but that´s why I have attached a save file to this post: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/barbarian-cities-in-civ-3.646253/#post-15462924

    Edited: Hmm, I see, the save file I have attached will not use the changes done with the editor to the biq after the save.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  4. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    Yes, in effect every save file is its own .bic/.bix/.biq. :)
     
  5. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Second try of an answer: I started a game based on CCM2 with Barbarian cities. CCM2 has the building 'slavery' with a negative culture of -1.
    Even when the slavery with the negative culture is preplaced in a Barbarian city, that city doesn´t produce any culture.
     
  6. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Done! :)
     
  7. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    Well, it was worth trying. The civ engine does that kind of thing sometimes.
    Thanks.
     
  8. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Small update - I wrote up some code to transfer cities from SAVs to BIQs. It's pretty rudimentary at this point, and doesn't include things like buildings. But I was able to migrate barbarian cities from a BIQ to a SAV.

    Unfortunately, when doing the same process, but after having settled a barbarian city, I got the "Civ3Conquests.exe has stopped responding" error message when attempting to load the BIQ in the game. It did load successfully in the Firaxis editor, where it shows as being owned by Player 0 (A Barbarian Chiefdom), but that doesn't help much if it can't be loaded in-game.

    That isn't necessarily the end of the line; there are avenues to be explored around setting the owner by civ or to barbarians directly (a la units). It's rather unfortunate though, as that was the straightforward approach.
     
    Blake00 likes this.
  9. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Quintillus, this is an interesting first step to create working biqs with Barbarian cities. Thank you very much for that information and for all your work! :)
     
  10. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    Some questions.
    a) were you running it on debug mode?
    b) by ‘settled’ do you mean that you actually had a barbarian-owned city build a new Settler unit, sent it out and had it build a new city on a different tile?

    Do tell us the results of any further experimentation. :)
     
  11. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    This was in debug mode, and I created the city using Blake00's method; namely of giving the Barbarians a Settler in Debug Mode, and then using Sima Qian's multiplayer tool to switch to the Barbarians as my civ, and settling the city. The code I added in my editor opened the SAV (it cannot yet read all parts of the SAV, but it can read city information), and then also opened the original BIQ at the same time. It then added all the cities from the SAV to the BIQ.

    When I tried this with no barbarian cities, I could go into Civ Content and create a game from the resulting BIQ, but the game crashed (CD version) when I tried the same thing, but with barbarian cities.

    I've attached a .zip with the two BIQ files; the one with no barbs works, and the other does not.
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    Hmmm. This is me just thinking out loud, but I wonder whether the nationality of the citizens employed to build the Settler might be an issue. I remember that in the Firaxis-made Sengoku scenario I've occasionally founded cities with people of other daimyos' ethnicities colours. And I've used captured barbarians as workers when playing as the Maya in the unmodded epic game, but I've never had a city with popheds from ‘A Barbarian Chiefdom’ exclusively.

    Perhaps giving the barbarians a Settler with popheads assigned to a non-barbarian civ could work.
     
  13. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    Speaking about barbarian cities, a looong time ago I played a scenario where a unit could enslave other units into workers. Since I had a lot of barbarian activities around me I got a lot of barbarian workers, so many that I created a metropolis by adding 20 barbarian workers to a recently founded town.
    The thing was that these barbarian city citizens were, unlike other nationalities, never assimilated. They stayed barbarian for the rest of the game.
     
  14. Adrain

    Adrain Chieftain

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    I've found that when workers and/or settlers are used to build into city populations they never get assimilated into the local nationality.

    I typically capture an enemy city; build settlers/worker to clear out all the indiginous population (and these settlers/worker, though owned and managed by me, the Player, have nationalities that reflect that of the citizens used to build them.); externally cheat these Settlers/worker into my own nationality; use them to build the population back up to its previous level. I did play with trying to change the nationality of the citizens themselves, but never got that to work properly :-(

    Information on the SAV file format for Civ III C (BIC format) can be found at https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/meet-the-modders.353148/page-52#post-15497938.
     
  15. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    Never? What happens if they are built by a player-controlled civ, assimilated into a city, and then conquered by another civ?
    What happens if the city is gifted to another civ?
     
  16. Adrain

    Adrain Chieftain

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    Interesting question, and I don't have a definitive answer for you I'm afraid.

    That said, from the Civilopaedia we know that once citizens have been under the aegis of a different nationality than the one they were born into for as long as, or longer than, the duration of their original nationality (in years not turns) then they take on that nationality. To me that implies there must be an array of dates or durations (Stored how I don't know) for each citizen and when one overtakes another this change is triggered.

    Now, that could mean that citizens that are 'Built' don't have this array, or that when built this trigger is never hit as it starts at zero and the code assumes a non-zero value. IE. It's passed before it ever checks so it never actually detects the passing. Who knows. I suspect it's the latter so if we assume that the duration under your own nationality is logged then when the city is taken over the detection code can work normally and trigger the switch once they've been living under the other nationality for longer than they were living under yours.

    All conjecture, but makes sense. I just wish I were better informed of how such data is stored so I could encourage the switch without having to resort to unloading and reloading all the foreign citizens. A real PITA :-(
     
  17. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    You could ask Steph about what he has unearthed in his investigations and attempts to make his own game.
     
  18. Adrain

    Adrain Chieftain

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    Is Steph one of the contributors I would have come across already?
    I don't recognise the name. Should I?
     
  19. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    Well, yes, @Steph used to be a moderator for Civ3 C&C, got quite a way with his own game (SSS - Steph's Strategic Stimulation), and then at some point went over to do Total War mods (for Napoleon, IIRC).
     
  20. Blake00

    Blake00 Chieftain Supporter

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    Civ3 C&C???????
     

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