[R&F] Based on the new features - which civilizations and leaders should be introduced in R&F?

[Aedra]

I would like to see Catherine of Russia the most. Peter's UB is not very good, although the Russian civilization itself and UU and UB is amazing.

 

[Zaarin]

True, Caesar could be precise at times, but he was also incredibly frustrating. Every time he was specific he would then be incredibly vague and make a sweeping statement along the lines of "well they are a whole bunch of Celts" and suddenly be very generalised. His works are so amazing and so frustrating. But my main point was that he considered the Britannia to be basically a Celtic nation, despite then describing a whole bunch of things that aren't at all Celtic. This view passed down through the ages and now we still have a prevailing mass opinion of the British Isles being home to the same Celts as the Iron Age.
I totally 100% agree with Celtic being a modern concept that really doesn't apply to the ancient Celts. It would be like considering modern Italy and Rome as being basically the same thing.

I've been a fan of Gaul's inclusion for a long time, and while it isn't really a nation or empire with any kind of unity at least it's a recognisable boundary of some kind. It might be an artificial line in the sand (the line between Germanic and Gallic becomes extremely vague near the Rhine) but most ancient peoples are that way.

Well, to be fair, linguistically the Britons (and the Gaels, though Caesar never got that far) were Celts. Some linguists even believe that Briton and Gaulish represented a dialect continuum; while that theory still needs a lot of work before it can be considered persuasive, I have to say the preliminary work looks intriguing. But yeah, while Caesar was very specific in certain cases, when it came to make sweeping generalizations he just lumped them altogether; who cares about differentiating the barbarians anyway? I've long said that I wish Caesar had been a linguist and anthropologist instead of a politician.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I finally got around to reading up on Wilhelmina of the Netherlands last night, to see what her supporters were going on about. I have to say, I'm really quite taken with the notion.

She sounds like a real battleaxe of an old lady, and I think she would get some kind of bonus regarding Emergencies. For one, she went against the opinions of her advisors and sent a rescue mission to help out the Boers in South Africa when Britain annexed their territory. And second, she supported, encouraged, and gave morale to Dutch resistance from exile when her country was overrun by the Nazis. She called them "the arch-enemy of all mankind". She sounds like the kind of person who won't reject an emergency call to action and will be angry at anyone who does.

 

[Zaarin]

I finally got around to reading up on Wilhelmina of the Netherlands last night, to see what her supporters were going on about. I have to say, I'm really quite taken with the notion.

She sounds like a real battleaxe of an old lady, and I think she would get some kind of bonus regarding Emergencies. For one, she went against the opinions of her advisors and sent a rescue mission to help out the Boers in South Africa when Britain annexed their territory. And second, she supported, encouraged, and gave morale to Dutch resistance from exile when her country was overrun by the Nazis. She called them "the arch-enemy of all mankind". She sounds like the kind of person who won't reject an emergency call to action and will be angry at anyone who does.

I agree. I'm perfectly willing to overlook my general dislike of modern leaders, because she sounds fascinating.

 

[Phoenix1595]

I would like to see Catherine of Russia the most. Peter's UB is not very good, although the Russian civilization itself and UU and UB is amazing.

Catherine would be interesting, but if the developers stick to the idea that alt leaders are attached to different capital cities (started with Greece, likely to allow both Greek leaders to be in same game), I can imagine Moscow being the alternative capital. That would mean an alternative Russian leader would either be a pre-Peter tsar or a Soviet (the return of Stalin!).

If multiple capitals is a way to deduce the next alt leader, then Arabia, China, Egypt, Japan, Germany, Spain, and Russia have a shot. I exclude the Confederate capital of Richmond and Vichy France because they were too short-lived and did not have the necessary recognition. Norway, Rome and India could theoretically have different capitals with a new leader too, but that would drastically change the nature of the civ from its current form (Norway=Norse vikings, Rome=pre-Constantinople, Gandhi=modern India, not the various pre-colonial Indian states).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Catherine would be interesting, but if the developers stick to the idea that alt leaders are attached to different capital cities (started with Greece, likely to allow both Greek leaders to be in same game), I can imagine Moscow being the alternative capital. That would mean an alternative Russian leader would either be a pre-Peter tsar or a Soviet (the return of Stalin!).

If multiple capitals is a way to deduce the next alt leader, then Arabia, China, Egypt, Japan, Germany, Spain, and Russia have a shot. I exclude the Confederate capital of Richmond and Vichy France because they were too short-lived and did not have the necessary recognition. Norway, Rome and India could theoretically have different capitals with a new leader too, but that would drastically change the nature of the civ from its current form (Norway=Norse vikings, Rome=pre-Constantinople, Gandhi=modern India, not the various pre-colonial Indian states).

US would fit under that too.

 

[Meluhhan]

I finally got around to reading up on Wilhelmina of the Netherlands last night, to see what her supporters were going on about. I have to say, I'm really quite taken with the notion.

She sounds like a real battleaxe of an old lady, and I think she would get some kind of bonus regarding Emergencies. For one, she went against the opinions of her advisors and sent a rescue mission to help out the Boers in South Africa when Britain annexed their territory. And second, she supported, encouraged, and gave morale to Dutch resistance from exile when her country was overrun by the Nazis. She called them "the arch-enemy of all mankind". She sounds like the kind of person who won't reject an emergency call to action and will be angry at anyone who does.

Also, weren't the Resistance fighters in the announcement trailer shown to be listening to some kind of radio broadcast?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Also, weren't the Resistance fighters in the announcement trailer shown to be listening to some kind of radio broadcast?

Exactly. Anyone caught listening to Radio Oranj would have been arrested. So they had to listen to their queen in secret.

 

[liv]

Exactly. Anyone caught listening to Radio Oranj would have been arrested. So they had to listen to their queen in secret.

Ah nice so that makes it all but certain I think

 

[Meluhhan]

Exactly. Anyone caught listening to Radio Oranj would have been arrested. So they had to listen to their queen in secret.

So that might be a subtle hint. She seems like an interesting leader choice to me.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I also wonder if the made Victoria young so that the "feisty old lady" niche would be open for Wilhelmina.

 

[Zaarin]

Catherine would be interesting, but if the developers stick to the idea that alt leaders are attached to different capital cities (started with Greece, likely to allow both Greek leaders to be in same game), I can imagine Moscow being the alternative capital. That would mean an alternative Russian leader would either be a pre-Peter tsar or a Soviet (the return of Stalin!).

If multiple capitals is a way to deduce the next alt leader, then Arabia, China, Egypt, Japan, Germany, Spain, and Russia have a shot. I exclude the Confederate capital of Richmond and Vichy France because they were too short-lived and did not have the necessary recognition. Norway, Rome and India could theoretically have different capitals with a new leader too, but that would drastically change the nature of the civ from its current form (Norway=Norse vikings, Rome=pre-Constantinople, Gandhi=modern India, not the various pre-colonial Indian states).

Remember, though, that we currently have a sample size of one. I really don't think different capitals need to come into play; NB that at present it is possible for two (or more!) of the same leader to appear in game, with the same default capital, if duplicates are not disabled.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Remember, though, that we currently have a sample size of one. I really don't think different capitals need to come into play; NB that at present it is possible for two (or more!) of the same leader to appear in game, with the same default capital, if duplicates are not disabled.

Yeah I'd hope they don't limit themselves like that.

 

[Siptah]

Yeah I'd hope they don't limit themselves like that.

Yeah I hope they limit themselves much more and only use alternate leaders if two parts of the same civ were rivals.

 

[Phrozen]

I would rather have De Witt or William III than a more modern Dutch leader. If we get another WWII leader I would prefer Haakon VII for Norway. We don't know if the additional leader will be with a new civ or for an existing one.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I would rather have De Witt or William III than a more modern Dutch leader. If we get another WWII leader I would prefer Haakon VII for Norway. We don't know if the additional leader will be with a new civ or for an existing one.

We do! Ed tweeted that the alt-leader is for an existing civ.

 

[Winged Hussar]

Didn't read through the whole thread, but Kievan Rus' would be a great choice since it's looking like the Mongols are a safe bet (and a welcome one!). Yarolav the Wise would be a good choice for a leader.

...if not, I'm hoping for at least seeing Kiev as a city state again - along with Samarkand and Almaty.

 

[Zaarin]

...if not, I'm hoping for at least seeing Kiev as a city state again - along with Samarkand and Almaty.

We are remarkably lacking on Central Asian/Silk Road city-states like Samarkand. I wish that could get my hopes up on a Silk Road civ like Sogdia, but...I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Siptah]

We are remarkably lacking on Central Asian/Silk Road city-states like Samarkand. I wish that could get my hopes up on a Silk Road civ like Sogdia, but...I'm not holding my breath.

Just wait until we discover that the Mongols from the trailer are actually soldiers of the Timurid Empire. Oh, that would lead to so many nice forum posts and steam comments!

 

[chronoturner]

I've seen some speculation for Zewditu for Ethiopia, but I don't think she was nearly as influential as some people want. During her reign she was basically a puppet for Ras Tafari (Haile Selassie), sadly enough.

Haile Selassie or Taytu Betul would be much better fits for Ethiopia, in my mind, or hell, even the Queen of Sheba! Zewditu, however, did not do much, or had not much effect. In fact, Haile Selassie is more applicable to the Rise and Fall theme of the expansion, but I don't think we'll see him, as he appeared in Civ 5.