Looks like my earlier guess of Mali will be wrong, but, like everyone else's list, Mongols was on my original list. Or will we get a big surprise in 15 minutes?
Didn't the Catalan language carry that name by the time of Columbus?
There were certainly people in the east coast of the Aragonese realm who spoke some form of Catalan, and were historically associated with some independent entities such as the county of Barcelona.
If he was born in there, I'd say:
1. A Russian diplomat would call him "Columbus the Spanish"
2. An Aquitanian merchant would call him "Columbus of Aragon"
3. An Aragonese passerby would call him "That Catalan Columbus man"
Anyway, I am not certain how fine it is to call those "outer" cities "Italian" at that time.
Genoa, as much as Venice and Ragusa, were both ethnolinguistic and politically different in some ways.
Do some of you know if there was, back then, a consensus calling those Republics "Italian states", just like Tuscany or Sicily?
(and how about Milan and Savoy?)
I was actually looking forward to/betting on Babylon being included but that knocks them off my list, at least before another expansion - but even then I doubt it.
I think we should expect them to turn away from Europe and Asia for the time being at least. Maybe Mali or a Native American civ? Could definitely see Inca, but they might start showing the unexpecteds next.
Looks like my earlier guess of Mali will be wrong, but, like everyone else's list, Mongols was on my original list. Or will we get a big surprise in 15 minutes?
OK I'm now 3 for 3, but now we get intot the more speculative side of things
1) Korea (crown in trailer, been in the last 3 games) 2) Mongols (featured in trailer, been in every previous game
3) Georgia (Tamar is much mentioned leader and fits the categories stated for new leaders)
4) Byzantium/Ottomans/Carthage (Huge hole in Rome Map needs to be filled) 5) Netherlands/ The Dutch ( in trailer, been in last three games)
6) Ghana (a guess but it fits with the themes) Could also be one of the Niger River civs like Mali
7) Apache (the big gap in civ's line up so far has been NA civs and I think we will get at least one here)
8) Inca (Once again no new American Civs in DLC so I think they will change it here, and Inca is the most well known of the SA civilization also been in last 3 games)
there are of course some other potentials like Portugal, Babylon, Assyria, Canada etc. but I think we might actually see some more DLC between EX Packs this time round
Based on the running theory about civs in the trailer, I think we still have at least one more European civ to go, likely a Mediterranean civ, like Portugal or an Italian city state. I'll even throw in the bone that Georgia is in, based on the Mongol scene.
I think it is also reasonable to conclude that at least one Turkey-based civ is in the mix too (Hittites/Byzantine/Ottomans). After that, I agree that the Americas need some love, and several native civs, be it the Inca, Maya or a North American tribe round out the final five.
Runner up would be West Africa, particularly the Niger River civs (Mali, Songhai, Ghana). I would love to see them return, but I am not as sold on this for R&F because Africa got more love with the Nubia DLC and Kilwa, and the Americas haven't received much attention yet.
Based on the running theory about civs in the trailer, I think we still have at least one more European civ to go, likely a Mediterranean civ, like Portugal or an Italian city state. I'll even throw in the bone that Georgia is in, based on the Mongol scene.
I think it is also reasonable to conclude that at least one Turkey-based civ is in the mix too (Hittites/Byzantine/Ottomans). After that, I agree that the Americas need some love, and several native civs, be it the Inca, Maya or a North American tribe round out the final five.
Runner up would be West Africa, particularly the Niger River civs (Mali, Songhai, Ghana). I would love to see them return, but I am not as sold on this for R&F because Africa got more love with the Nubia DLC and Kilwa, and the Americas haven't received much attention yet.
Criteria for choosing civs, gender, region, colour (expecting at least one surprise here)
Diversity, balance, representing game elements
5 women Korea, Dutch, Women who has ages ability (Isabella), ?A Mayan Queen, Georgia
4 men Mongol, Ottomans, Canada, African civ
Military civ: Mongol
Scientific civ: Korea
Economic civ:? Ottomans (also flippy)
Cultural civ: Maya?
Religious civ: Georgia?
Loyalty civ: Dutch
Ages civ: Female Isabella
governor ability Canada
expansion ability (tall or wide) African civ
I haven’t been involved, so i am sorry if I missed a similar note somewhere, but I was mainly curious about unique buildings/districts in predicting some civs. Except for the Prasat / Stave Church, there hasn’t been duplicates of specializing infrastructure, right? So my guesses are more dependent on filling those sorts of holes:
Things without replacements: Library, Research Lab, Amphitheater, Shrine, Museums, Military Academy, Encampment, Armory, Lighthouse, Shipyard, Seaport, Bank, Stock Exchange, Commercial Hub, Workshop, Power Plant, Zoo, Stadium, all core buildings/aerodrome/spaceport
Since 11/26 current civs are improvements, i would guess at least half the new civs would come with variants on buildings/districts.
Georgia: Some sort of religious improvement, since they feel like an obvious choice for a religious civ, unless they have a good option for the shrine. But that feels too close to Russia with the lavra
Carthage: Cothon is obvious, but I’d replace the Harbor with that? Or maybe Lighthouse.
Assyria: Famous for early libraries, had the Royal Library previously.
Ghana: I dont know enough about Ghana to make a good call here.
Ottoman: Maybe hammams are back? Could replace the aerna or zoo. Not feeling it though- feels similar to the roman bath.
Byzantium: Hippodrome replaces the amphitheater. Feels obvious even.
Apache: My guess would be an improvement.
Sioux: As above, an improvement (such as the Tipi)
Lakota: An improvement.
Iroquois: Longhouse has replaced the workshop in the past.
Inca: I would guess terrace farm improvements over a unique building.
Maya: Ball court is obvious, but Aztecs already made that move. Would sooner guess some sort of unique improvement like the nubian pyramids.
Portugal: Certainly some improvement like in the past.
Ethiopia: Stele replaces the monument? But core buildings havent been made special so far... maybe there is a reason why
Mali: I can see Mali having a clear replacement for the Bank or commercial hub, like a treasury, mint, etc. or even a bazaar.
It is a roundabout and ridiculous way of guessing (but thats the fun of it?), so here are my guesses, plus what we know:
Korea (Campus)
Mongolia (Stables)
Byzantium (Amphitheater)
Mali (Commercial Hub)
Netherlands (Improvement)
NA Civ, I’d guess Sioux (Improvement)
Portugal (Improvement)
Inca (Improvement)
@pgm123 Thank you for that long and thorough explanation. (And I'm aware that "Iran" is etymologically from the same root as "Aryan"--I'm just accustomed to the linguistic division between "Iranian" and "Indo-Aryan.")
No, I'm a literature major with a history minor who works as a general transcriptionist. But I'm also an Aspie with a near-eidetic memory and a keen interest in history, especially pre-Classical and Medieval, so that helps.
You mean Aragones, from the crown of Aragón, right? Besides all the efforts that catalan secessionist are making right now to create a legendary history of "the great people of Caralonia" there is no such a thing as Catalonia in that time period.
If Columbus was born in what is today Catalonia, and you say he was Catalan, it is exacly the same that if I say that my all good buddy Trajan, was Murcian.
Not sure where you got that idea, but Catalunya has been a thing since the High Middle Ages and was part of France before being transferred to Spain. Catalunya was most certainly a thing when Columbus lived, and Catalan was a far more prestigious language than Castilian through most of the Middle Ages. (Note: I'm neither Spanish nor Catalan, nor do I personally have any particular opinion or theory about Columbus' origin, so I have no horse in this race.)
I haven’t been involved, so i am sorry if I missed a similar note somewhere, but I was mainly curious about unique buildings/districts in predicting some civs. Except for the Prasat / Stave Church, there hasn’t been duplicates of specializing infrastructure, right? So my guesses are more dependent on filling those sorts of holes:
Things without replacements: Library, Research Lab, Amphitheater, Shrine, Museums, Military Academy, Encampment, Armory, Lighthouse, Shipyard, Seaport, Bank, Stock Exchange, Commercial Hub, Workshop, Power Plant, Zoo, Stadium, all core buildings/aerodrome/spaceport
Since 11/26 current civs are improvements, i would guess at least half the new civs would come with variants on buildings/districts.
Georgia: Some sort of religious improvement, since they feel like an obvious choice for a religious civ, unless they have a good option for the shrine. But that feels too close to Russia with the lavra
Carthage: Cothon is obvious, but I’d replace the Harbor with that? Or maybe Lighthouse.
Assyria: Famous for early libraries, had the Royal Library previously.
Ghana: I dont know enough about Ghana to make a good call here.
Ottoman: Maybe hammams are back? Could replace the aerna or zoo. Not feeling it though- feels similar to the roman bath.
Byzantium: Hippodrome replaces the amphitheater. Feels obvious even.
Apache: My guess would be an improvement.
Sioux: As above, an improvement (such as the Tipi)
Lakota: An improvement.
Iroquois: Longhouse has replaced the workshop in the past.
Inca: I would guess terrace farm improvements over a unique building.
Maya: Ball court is obvious, but Aztecs already made that move. Would sooner guess some sort of unique improvement like the nubian pyramids.
Portugal: Certainly some improvement like in the past.
Ethiopia: Stele replaces the monument? But core buildings havent been made special so far... maybe there is a reason why
Mali: I can see Mali having a clear replacement for the Bank or commercial hub, like a treasury, mint, etc. or even a bazaar.
It is a roundabout and ridiculous way of guessing (but thats the fun of it?), so here are my guesses, plus what we know:
Korea (Campus)
Mongolia (Stables)
Byzantium (Amphitheater)
Mali (Commercial Hub)
Netherlands (Improvement)
NA Civ, I’d guess Sioux (Improvement)
Portugal (Improvement)
Inca (Improvement)
OK I'm now 3 for 3, but now we get intot the more speculative side of things
1) Korea (crown in trailer, been in the last 3 games)
2) Mongols (featured in trailer, been in every previous game
3) Georgia (Tamar is much mentioned leader and fits the categories stated for new leaders)
4) Byzantium/Ottomans/Carthage (Huge hole in Rome Map needs to be filled) 5) Netherlands/ The Dutch ( in trailer, been in last three games)
6) Ghana (a guess but it fits with the themes) Could also be one of the Niger River civs like Mali
7) Apache (the big gap in civ's line up so far has been NA civs and I think we will get at least one here)
8) Inca (Once again no new American Civs in DLC so I think they will change it here, and Inca is the most well known of the SA civilization also been in last 3 games)
there are of course some other potentials like Portugal, Babylon, Assyria, Canada etc. but I think we might actually see some more DLC between EX Packs this time round
Here's my hopes:
1. Korea
2. Dutch
3. Mongols
4. Ottoman Empire/Turks (I really wish we'd get the Timurids with Tamerlane, but not gonna happen - regardless, the Turkish people have to be included, right?)
5. Native American civ (Iroquois seems to fit theme well, but TSL location is bad - perhaps Pueblo? Inuits ought to make it someday, too) - ALTERNATIVELY this could be Canada given the inclusion of Chateau Fontenac)
6. Ghana/Songhai/Mali - all essentially the same empire/different iterations of the same empire. Given that Mansa Musa is the truly obvious leader, Mali is my bet)
7. Inca (Most technologically advanced civ in the Americas upon the arrival of Europeans - really should be in game, and fills in a major hole on TSL - also, Incan civilization fits the them of R&F well)
8. Georgia (Tamar fits the desire for powerful female leaders and Georgia deserves to be in a civ game)
9. Long Shot: Madagascar (powerful, long reigning queen in the 19th century who hated missionaries and fought to maintain control of Madagascar during the height of colonialism) - my long-shot guess
I haven’t been involved, so i am sorry if I missed a similar note somewhere, but I was mainly curious about unique buildings/districts in predicting some civs. Except for the Prasat / Stave Church, there hasn’t been duplicates of specializing infrastructure, right? So my guesses are more dependent on filling those sorts of holes:
Things without replacements: Library, Research Lab, Amphitheater, Shrine, Museums, Military Academy, Encampment, Armory, Lighthouse, Shipyard, Seaport, Bank, Stock Exchange, Commercial Hub, Workshop, Power Plant, Zoo, Stadium, all core buildings/aerodrome/spaceport
Since 11/26 current civs are improvements, i would guess at least half the new civs would come with variants on buildings/districts.
Georgia: Some sort of religious improvement, since they feel like an obvious choice for a religious civ, unless they have a good option for the shrine. But that feels too close to Russia with the lavra
Carthage: Cothon is obvious, but I’d replace the Harbor with that? Or maybe Lighthouse.
Assyria: Famous for early libraries, had the Royal Library previously.
Ghana: I dont know enough about Ghana to make a good call here.
Ottoman: Maybe hammams are back? Could replace the aerna or zoo. Not feeling it though- feels similar to the roman bath.
Byzantium: Hippodrome replaces the amphitheater. Feels obvious even.
Apache: My guess would be an improvement.
Sioux: As above, an improvement (such as the Tipi)
Lakota: An improvement.
Iroquois: Longhouse has replaced the workshop in the past.
Inca: I would guess terrace farm improvements over a unique building.
Maya: Ball court is obvious, but Aztecs already made that move. Would sooner guess some sort of unique improvement like the nubian pyramids.
Portugal: Certainly some improvement like in the past.
Ethiopia: Stele replaces the monument? But core buildings havent been made special so far... maybe there is a reason why
Mali: I can see Mali having a clear replacement for the Bank or commercial hub, like a treasury, mint, etc. or even a bazaar.
It is a roundabout and ridiculous way of guessing (but thats the fun of it?), so here are my guesses, plus what we know:
Korea (Campus)
Mongolia (Stables)
Byzantium (Amphitheater)
Mali (Commercial Hub)
Netherlands (Improvement)
NA Civ, I’d guess Sioux (Improvement)
Portugal (Improvement)
Inca (Improvement)
We are at least going to see another unique district, another unique building, and three more improvements in this expansion based off of that here are my predictions:
Ottomans: I am hoping they get a Bazaar as unique Commercial Hub.
Zulu: Ikanda as Encampment replacement.
Byzantine: could get a possible unique Government Plaza called Sacrum Palatium, if not the hippodrome or a religious building.
Austria: Opera house could replace amphitheater.
Italy: Galleria replacing the Art Museum
Carthage: Cothon could be an earlier shipyard replacement.
Ethiopia: The stele could also give early faith.
Gran Colombia: Military Academy replacement.
Mali: Treasury building or Mud Mosque building/improvement.
Maya: Mayan Pyramid could either be a religious building or rainforest improvement.
Portugal: I expect the Feitora to come back as an improvement.
Inca: Andene (Terrace Farm) will probably come back as well.
Babylon: not in this expansion but would like them to get a library replacement.
@pgm123 Thank you for that long and thorough explanation. (And I'm aware that "Iran" is etymologically from the same root as "Aryan"--I'm just accustomed to the linguistic division between "Iranian" and "Indo-Aryan.")
You're welcome. I thought you were probably familiar, but I wanted to explain my choice of words. The other reason is because "Iran" is also a geographic area. So, you could refer to the Elamites as an "Iranian civilization" in the sense that they were a civilization within the borders of modern Iran. I was hoping to use Aryan to avoid confusion.
Ottomans UD, Mali UB, Inca, North American Native civ and Portugal UI's.
Isabella powerful ages leader ability
Just can't fit Georgia (but probably a unique religious building or improvement), maybe also preferring hilly/mountain terrain (or some powerful religious improvement that only can be built on hills or next to mountains?
Zulu Unique Encampment for a next expansion is also likely. Hoping that Ethiopia will come up in A DLC (since i really want them)... though they could also likely fit to co-op with a new mechanic in a next expansion, but i doubt they would include more than one african civs in one expansion. And we also need Carthage, and i want a second leader for Egypt (not going to happen though). Imagine that we will see a brand new civ for Africa... than i will be panicking... Except for Egypt we haven't see a returning civ for Africa yet. But that does make Mali actually even more likely. And a civ like Madagascar really unlikely. (cuz you don't fill West-Africa with it.
So if we get DLC i'm rooting for Canada DLC (since i don't want it into the expansion, and it will inevitably come) and an certain African civ DLC (and Ethiopia is actually a likely option, if they don't plan to add a new mechanic that would fit with Ethiopia). Nubia could have taken the spot too.
And also Inca's could be reserved for DLC (or Mali) since both economy or the only one of the seven world wonders left (Machu Picchu) aren't two of the main selling points of R&F, but anyway Mongols also don't use R&F features in their design, so it isn't a requirement. And Georgia and Inca both making into the game, could mean we have two mountain civs in the exp pack (but Portugal and Netherlands are also two naval exploration civs, but Netherlands isn't focused that much on exploration).
Replace Portugal with Italy and this would be a dream Expansion.
Of course I think they would have to get the UB and the other improvement would have to go to Mali (I'm thinking mud mosque on desert).
I'm starting to think if not Isabella, the other leader could be Elizabeth for England if they want to keep her streak of appearing in all Civ games, but I'm not sure yet.
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(And I'm aware that "Iran" is etymologically from the same root as "Aryan"--I'm just accustomed to the linguistic division between "Iranian" and "Indo-Aryan.")
But I'm also an Aspie with a near-eidetic memory and a keen interest in history, especially pre-Classical and Medieval, so that helps. 
