[R&F] Based on the new features - which civilizations and leaders should be introduced in R&F?

[Vahnstad]

Speaking as a Canadian, I can't see any reason why the Chateau would be in the game as a wonder if Canada didn't make it in. Like, it's a beautiful hotel, sure, but not nearly "worldly iconic" enough to make it in otherwise.

That's my reasoning too.

And if the UI is really Kilwa's one, then we would have two dark horses in the game (and we know, Firaxis, we can expect them. It's not going to be eight mainstay civs. The DLC, leader choices, and some vanilla choices did surprise us too (Remember Scythia). Since the Kilwa's would be Ottoman-like in mechanics (just like Scythia took Mongolia's spot), it could include the Byzantines (who would fit in this expansion too, and i don't think we will have an expansion with BOTH the Byzantines and the Ottomans, so that may mean that Byzantium will be in the expansion (further diminishing Italy's option). Then we will have Kilwa, Canada, Byzantium, Isabella, Inca's, Netherlands, Korea, Mongolia, and only one other civ: most likely a native American or a Western African civ, but it could also be Babylon for instance. Geographically-wise Mali would make much sense than, but would they include two African civs in one expansion?

Toronto is not the capital of Canada; Ottawa is. Toronto though is the capital of the province of Ontario, which Ottawa is in.

Toronto will definitely be on their city-list. It would be ridicilous to see a Canadian civ with an independent Toronto city-state, so while you're right, Toronto will most likely be removed and replaced by another industrial city-state. The bonus is like other persons said, pretty generic apparently.

 

[Remmert]

As more major civs are introduced and, therefore, more city-states are absorbed into their respective city lists, a problem new to Civ 6 presents itself: what to do with the special suzerain bonuses? Generic city-states like those in Civ V were easy to replace; just replace the name with a more obscure city and voila! With bonuses that are inspired by a particular city-state, however, it becomes more difficult to just replace one city with another.

I think a solution might be to simply exclude a city-state if its parent civ is present in the game. For example, disable Amsterdam as a city-state if the Dutch are in the game. Or add Berlin as a city-state and simply disable it if Germany is enabled.

This would allow more prominent cities to be represented with unique bonuses and preserve the city-states that are already in game.

There are a lot of CS not in the current game, wich can obtain the Suz bonus.
Amsterdam SC could be replaced by Singapore, just get rid of the xXx and replace it with another symbol

 

[Vahnstad]

There are a lot of CS not in the current game, wich can obtain the Suz bonus.
Amsterdam SC could be replaced by Singapore, just get rid of the xXx and replace it with another symbol

Antwerp is a good candidate too. Second largest harbor of Europe and very close to the Dutch, though Antwerp could also be a Dutch city name in the game.

 

[Remmert]

Antwerp is a good candidate too. Second largest harbor of Europe and very close to the Dutch, though Antwerp could also be a Dutch city name in the game.

I already see a conquistador with an religious unit attached ;(

 

[Guandao]

Why Canada?.....
So we must have three modern day former English colonies, at the expense of Civs like the Maya, Inca, Mali, Ethiopia, Netherlands, Portugal, Byzantines, Carthage, etc. What is Firaxis thinking? With their pockets of course.

Chateau de Frontenac being on that poster for the expansion is not an official confirmation that Canada is going to be in the game. We had CN Tower in Civ5 and Canada wasn't made an official Civ then.

 

[Morningcalm]

If Canada is in the game now, I will not be pleased. Canada being included when we already have several such countries (Australia, Brazil) would be an insult to the memory of such important peoples from Mali, for example, or the Incas, or Ethiopians, or Hebrews, Iroquois, etc etc.

 

[Vahnstad]

The CN Tower is just a plain generic tower.

The Chateau Frontenac is a specific wonder, and they clearly thought about this well (what i encourage). The wonder itself is a far better choice than the CN tower. Also in CIV VI (especially the DLC), wonders from a certain region are often added to a civilization in that region that make it into the game. That made me think that Canada is being added along this wonder (and possibly natural wonder). The DLC also centered about all the regions in the world, except the America's, so they will most likely have some civs at least. If they just want to add a wonder, then they would have chosen for something different perhaps, since the Taj Mahal or Macchu Pichu are not seen as new wonders (what is okay, and in case of Taj Mahal even speaks for a Mughal DLC / civ in a later expansion, since they preserve it for later). The Chateau Frontenac isn't an obvious choice when it comes to wonders, and that's why I (and some other people) think Canada will be a new civ. We know that Firaxis will give us some odd choices. Canada could be one of them (and targets a huge playerbase).

 

[Guandao]

The CN Tower is just a plain generic tower.

The Chateau Frontenac is a specific wonder, and they clearly thought about this well (what i encourage). The wonder itself is a far better choice than the CN tower. Also in CIV VI (especially the DLC), wonders from a certain region are often added to a civilization in that region that make it into the game. That made me think that Canada is being added along this wonder (and possibly natural wonder). The DLC also centered about all the regions in the world, except the America's, so they will most likely have some civs at least. If they just want to add a wonder, then they would have chosen for something different perhaps, since the Taj Mahal or Macchu Pichu are not seen as new wonders (what is okay, and in case of Taj Mahal even speaks for a Mughal DLC / civ in a later expansion, since they preserve it for later). The Chateau Frontenac isn't an obvious choice when it comes to wonders, and that's why I (and some other people) think Canada will be a new civ. We know that Firaxis will give us some odd choices. Canada could be one of them (and targets a huge playerbase).

And with another boring English speaking White male Prime Minister as its leader? They should just make it a DLC. Chateau de Frontenac is still not confirmed as a wonder. It hasn't appeared in game screenshots yet, only a promotional poster.

 

[Vahnstad]

And with another boring English speaking White male Prime Minister as its leader? They should just make it a DLC. Chateau de Frontenac is still not confirmed as a wonder. It hasn't appeared in game screenshots yet, only a promotional poster.

Why would they put (with all respect) an obscure wonder (compared to others) on a promotional poster with no purpose? And the other wonders & natural wonders on the poster (Delicate Arch / Statue of Liberty) are in the game, and those appeared on in game screenshots.

 

[Guandao]

Why would they put (with all respect) an obscure wonder (compared to others) on a promotional poster with no purpose? And the other wonders & natural wonders on the poster (Delicate Arch / Statue of Liberty) are in the game, and those appeared on in game screenshots.

It's not an obscure wonder. It's the most iconic building in Canada. Still, the Chateau being made into a world wonder doesn't automatically mean Canada is being added in this expansion.
Canada doesn't really tick off the criteria they mentioned when considering which Civs to add.

• “Is this region of the world represented?” Yes it's already represented by America.
• “Is this time in history represented?” Yes, whatever Canadian leader is chosen, will come from the time period of Roosevelt, Victoria and John Curtin, unless it's Champlain/Cartier.
• “Is this represented/revered in previous Civilization games or totally new?” Canada might fit this, not being in previous games.

Canada being in the game might make me hesitant to buy this expansion. There are only 8 new Civs being added (compared to Gods and Kings' 9 Civs). And Firaxis decides to fill one of them with Canada?

 

[Vahnstad]

It's not an obscure wonder. It's the most iconic building in Canada. Still, the Chateau being made into a world wonder doesn't automatically mean Canada is being added in this expansion.
Canada doesn't really tick off the criteria they mentioned when considering which Civs to add.

• “Is this region of the world represented?” Yes it's already represented by America.
• “Is this time in history represented?” Yes, whatever Canadian leader is chosen, will come from the time period of Roosevelt, Victoria and John Curtin, unless it's Champlain/Cartier.
• “Is this represented/revered in previous Civilization games or totally new?” Canada might fit this, not being in previous games.

Canada being in the game might make me hesitant to buy this expansion. There are only 8 new Civs being added (compared to Gods and Kings' 9 Civs). And Firaxis decides to fill one of them with Canada?

It's not represented, and was never represented in civ. Also, the America's in general are underrepresented. The USA does represent the entire territory of the USA, but we will most likely see more native American civs, and you can argue that their prime territory is the Thirteen Colonies territories (city list). I also don't think, they will follow those lines very strictly. Macedon's region was also represented, when they included that civ, so it doesn't exclude the possibility of civs. This doesn't mean that they will try to fill all geographical gaps, but that they try to balance it out. And as i said, the territory of Canada is a gap, and was never represented in civ. (except maybe British Empire, but they (and all colonial empires) were almost everywhere).

Every time in history is to some extent already represented, and you can notice that actually recent era's are underrepresented, compared to older era's. Someone did the math.

It's a totally new civ, like you said.

 

[Morningcalm]

Let's just give Firaxis the benefit of the doubt and assume they won't add Canada in this expansion (and hopefully, never, as much as I love Canada for its food and culture; it's simply not significant enough in world history, especially as one of the world's youngest nations ever, and not a world power unlike the US).

 

[Guandao]

It's not represented, and was never represented in civ. Also, the America's in general are underrepresented. The USA does represent the entire territory of the USA, but we will most likely see more native American civs, and you can argue that their prime territory is the Thirteen Colonies territories (city list). I also don't think, they will follow those lines very strictly. Macedon's region was also represented, when they included that civ, so it doesn't exclude the possibility of civs. This doesn't mean that they will try to fill all geographical gaps, but that they try to balance it out. And as i said, the territory of Canada is a gap, and was never represented in civ. (except maybe British Empire, but they were almost everywhere).

Every time in history is to some extent already represented, and you can notice that actually recent era's are underrepresented, compared to older era's. Someone did the math.

It's a totally new civ, like you said.

I don't think Native Americans are being added to the game. Not anymore. They likely will not give Firaxis permission to use their languages or leaders. Also, people don't think they were Civilized.

I was hopeful about this expansion, now I'm disappointed.

 

[Morningcalm]

Well, the Iroquois would be easy enough to include I think. They've lent their language to us in Civ V.

 

[Xandinho]

The inclusion of the Chateau does not necessarily mean that Canada will be included, but I think the possibilities are high. Yes, they included CN Tower in Gods and Kings, but there we had no modern nation included beyond the USA. They included Australia, I do not think they'll let Canada go blank.
But I agree that 8 civs is too little for them to fill a slot with Canada. I am slightly suspect that we will not see the Incas (Macchu Pichu unfortunately has not been seen yet).

 

[ferretbacon]

If, indeed, that's the Chateau Frontenac on the poster, I think it means that Canada has some small chance to be one of the 8 new civs.

I'd be displeased with its inclusion. I think there are already enough former colonial civs (America, Australia, and Brazil) and if I had to choose to include yet another, I'd rather get Mexico than Canada. Canada is pretty low on my list of civs I'd like to see.

 

[conorbebe]

Honestly if I were Firaxis and wanted to add Canada to the game, I would have added them as a standalone DLC like Australia to maximise the $$$. People are going to buy the expansion whether it includes their home nation or not. A civ & scenario pack on the other hand is less likely to appeal to the masses, with the likely exception being if it includes a nation with a high population of players, e.g. Canada, Argentina.

 

[Vahnstad]

Who might be the next civs in R&F?

Mongolia - Ghengis Khan: Why? They are missed in the vanilla game
The Ottomans - leader unknown: also being missed in the game
The Dutch - Queen Wilhelmina; beacause of female leadership wich the devs said more female leaders are needed, and she was the longest reighning Queen.
The Inca - Huayna Capac. A mountainbased civ should be in the game.
Korea - Leader 1 Kim il Sung, leader 2 a female one. But I don't think they'll put a Kim in the game However, it should be a science powerhouse.
Zulu - Shaka Zulu, a good war-civ, should be in.
Cherokee, leader unknown, the pre-columbian civs are simply ignored in the base-game (Cherokee in the north, Inca's in the south)
Carthage - Hannibal; to represent historical Africa again.

But who am I to tell? Just looking up for the new First Looks or some several Second Looks.

If they add one reference to the current communist age, they could include that national wonder, Paektusan (what is a holy mountain for the Koreans), though their mechanics and looks are already represented by other mountains and other nw's bonuses. It would look similar to Crater Lake, and have the same kind of bonuses to Everest and possibly also Fuji, if they include that wonder ever. Paektusan had very heavy volcanic eruptions in the past, and is responsible for some of the heaviest volcanic eruptions in the past 5000 years. That's why scientists are concerned of the current regime doing it's nuclear tests very close to that volcano (and that the shockwaves could trigger the volcano again).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/946_eruption_of_Paektu_Mountain

 

[Nev_ti]

i think that the incas will come in a another expasion with machu pichu , for the civs i guess:
-Mongolia
-Korea
-Byzantium
-Dutch
-Canada
-Babylon
- North America native civ
-Obscure and unknown african civ
-New leader for Spain

 

[indradiva]

I also wouldn't be pleased with Canada, but for me Korea and very probable Mongolia and Ottomans will make up for this. nevertheless we'll learn all the civs pretty soon