BeBa - Beyond Balance

Try playing on very hard mate, so one difficulty below Apollo. I just got my ass kicked with this mod on very hard. Standard game speed with standard map size and the AI developed more than 3 cities(Some even 5 cities). I have also noticed that the AI created some smart moves in a war, for example first bomb the hell out of a city/units with air units and then all in with ground warfare. I don't know if it has something to do with this mod, but I liked the way AI was fighting a war. :goodjob:
The AI should be tactically smarter with this mod enabled , and all praise should be directed to Delnar_Ersike. See this thread for info. The changes were (almost) entirely usable in Beyond Earth, only a few alterations were necessary.
 
Hello thar!

I haven't gotten a chance to play the mod yet, so take my words with a grain of salt. I am very interested and will be downloading it shortly :)!

1) The Stations: I don't quite understand the gripes about the stations being spawned further away from the capital? The original spawn placements were the most annoying things I've encountered every game. I always run retrograde thrusters, count 7 tiles, mentally place my future cities, and then a station lands a few turns later just to ruin it. I love the rework. If people don't like stations being further away, because for some reason that messes up their game so horribly, then why not revert the change and make the stations fade away faster if there are no active trade routes. If the station is so important, then initiating a trade route would be the first thing you'd do. If not, it won't mess up the rest of us waiting to build our colonist.

2) Rejinaldo: I think the passive is pretty strong, not the 10% more melee strength, that's a joke in my eyes. I'll iterate: 10% of a marine's strength is basically 1, even 10% of a late game melee is 4-5 more damage... So I do appreciate the creative addition of moving after attacking, but maybe make it melee foot-soldier units only? In addition, how does adding the perk play into the affinities that grant that passive? It really is a neat concept and I can finally play Brazil.

3) The Trade Routes: The only reason I play Beyond Earth is because of the trade routes. My first game, Civ 5 tainted me and I produced as many routes as possible with foreign cities, I quit after turn 100 because it was taking so long to build anything. Next game I made inter-city trade routes and I fell in love. My gripe is this, I think 2 trade routes is perfect. I believe trade depots should only allow for one, and then auto-plants allow for an additional 1, so there's 2. 3 trade routes is what created the overkill, in addition to the overwhelming amount of production, which as I understand from the change-log has been adjusted.

So, now that those are taken care of, I have one tiny inquiry?
1) Quests: Is it possible to add more beneficial quests involving buildings? The culprits that come to mind would be the Launch Complex, Repair Facility, Surveillance Web, and I swear there's another... Oh well. In 90% of my games I don't even bother building them because they aren't cost efficient. I want to say Ultrasonic Fence, because I always get the trade route immunity, which means making anymore than 1 fence is a waste. Thus I come to two ideas: Remove the option to build Ultrasonic Fences after that option is selected, OR, a more balanced and practical solution, make the change to trade routes for that cities routes only, so I'm still forced to build it in the rest of my cities. Also that option should read, "Aliens ignore trade routes," not "Aliens ignore trade convoys," As 'trade convoys' don't include 'trade vessels.'

I'm trying to think of more prudent things in the game that demand balance, and I can't really think of anything, primarily because I want to return to this current match, finish it, and then download your mod. All I can think of is waiting for an expansion that releases more maps, civs, buildings, units, and technologies. I don't understand how the only flying unit is a Tacjet- a joke before the 3rd upgrade. We've mastered the art of space travel, but not trade routes via air? I was also hoping that aliens would become stronger and more diverse as the game progressed, an evolving species. My civilization transforms, yet the aliens are content with 14 strength land units and the hope that Krakens can control the sea- granted they can, very well.

Thank you for your time, sorry if it's tl;dr material :(.
 
Great work so far! 2 minor suggestions:
1. Change Medician to Physician (Medician is just mash up of Medicine and Physician...not as accepted a word as Physician)
2. Either have Plantations provide 1 health to combat the difficulty in gaining health in early game or reduce the negative health from cities from 4 to 3
 
Elpidios, your comment is very very useful, and I'll reply to it in length when I get the chance! :)

Great work so far! 2 minor suggestions:
1. Change Medician to Physician (Medician is just mash up of Medicine and Physician...not as accepted a word as Physician)
That's sort of the idea - medician is a term used almost exclusively by science-fiction to describe a generic 'medical scientist' who performs far beyond what we can currently do. I like terms that are less specific, they give the player more freedom to imagine what exactly he's choosing. This ambiguity, by the way, is one of SMAC's underrated achievements. For example, despite it being one of the most interesting and most important aspects of the setting, no-one knows precisely what nerve stapling is!
 
I'm curious about when the siege worms show up. I'm playing a marathon speed game and the huge suckers usually show up at around turn 30-40. Shouldn't them showing up be scaled with game speed/difficulty?
 
That's sort of the idea - medician is a term used almost exclusively by science-fiction to describe a generic 'medical scientist' who performs far beyond what we can currently do. I like terms that are less specific, they give the player more freedom to imagine what exactly he's choosing.
As someone whose read and watched a fair amount of SF, I've never heard the term "medician" in my life. To me it sounds like "magician", not "medical scientist".
 
Hey, just a thought but I think that the Ultrasonic Fence could use some balancing. As it stands, it lets you practically ignore all aliens except for when sending out a colonist, and for the first few turns of setting up your new colony. You never have to fear a siege worm barreling through your lands, and you don't even have to look to see where you are sending your trade routes as they wont be attacked. This one easily accessible building basically makes aliens irrelevant for a large portion of the game, and makes the game feel like you are playing solitaire. I believe that the UF also contributes to how OP trading is - you never have to defend your trade routes! Trading would be much more balanced if it was riskier, and required military supervision over the routes of travel to avoid being ransacked by aliens. I can suggest a few possible fixes, there may be better ones.

1) Bury the Ultrasonic Fence further down the tech tree, preferably in a Harmony affinity leaf. That way aliens are a much more relevant threat in the early game, but later on when they are weak some extra technology investment gives you the luxury to ignore them entirely.

2) Take away the Ultrasonic Fence quest. Its already a very reasonable defensive building before the quest, being able to boost its range to three or protect your trade routes makes it OP. These options could either be omitted, or given as passive bonuses on a late-game technology.

3) Make it significantly more expensive. A greater investment of production or energy would have to be put into it to receive the benefits.

Anyway, just a thought! Love your work so far, all the other changes are welcome improvements!
 
I almost never build UF's, and I find with only 1 trade route per city, it's an internal route, and so I don't have to worry about aliens anyway.
 
I almost never build UF's, and I find with only 1 trade route per city, it's an internal route, and so I don't have to worry about aliens anyway.

True, this change would encourage internal trading as a safer alternative, but especially after BeBa's nerf to internal trading I find myself trading externally far more often both for the extra resources and to curry favor with my opponents. Just different playstyle choices :) I still think some changes to the UF would make our relation to the aliens in the early game more dynamic.
 
An easy way to offset the alien eating your non-combat units is to plop a city two tiles away from a nest and after a few dozen turns have the aliens be friendly to you. Don't know though if they'll still go and eat your trade, colony and worker units. But I've found that after befriending the aliens the UF isn't needed really. I'm not for or am I against such a change to the UF and the quest that it is involved with. Remember though everyone has differing opinions on what should or shouldn't be changed or balanced.
 
Is there something like this mod, or even a version of this mod, that contains the balance changes only and no gameplay altering ones (i.e., the medicalicians, coming miasma changes, etc.)?
 
That's sort of the idea - medician is a term used almost exclusively by science-fiction to describe a generic 'medical scientist' who performs far beyond what we can currently do. I like terms that are less specific, they give the player more freedom to imagine what exactly he's choosing. This ambiguity, by the way, is one of SMAC's underrated achievements. For example, despite it being one of the most interesting and most important aspects of the setting, no-one knows precisely what nerve stapling is!

But none of the other options are scifi neologisms. They're all plain English.
 
Alright, Medicians will be changed to Doctors in the next update. :)
Is there something like this mod, or even a version of this mod, that contains the balance changes only and no gameplay altering ones (i.e., the medicalicians, coming miasma changes, etc.)?
All the mod's components are modular. If you want to get rid of the changes to colonists, go into My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization Beyond Earth\MODS\BeBa - Beyond Balance (v 1)\Core and rename "SeedingOptions.sql" to "_SeedingOptions.sql".
 
This change was made for three reasons:

1. Clearing miasma is universally useful and is currently located on a Harmony tech - despite the fact that harmony are the one faction that has no need for miasma to be cleared.
2. The miasmic repulsor is awfully cheap and makes miasma (which is already a bit of a joke) a non-issue, and rather than altering its production values or weakening it I'd rather just push it back a little bit to a less-useful tech.
3. It melds better with changes I would like to make to miasma in the future. Miasma, however, does not function like any other feature (code-wise) and so this might be a pipe-dream.

1) If the issue is the clear miasma ability, then by all means change it. But that shouldn't also create a change in the repulsor.

2) The repulsor, while cheap, does come at a time when I am building a lot of other things, so its hardly an automatic decision. Again, I think the focus here is you are trying to change miasma gameplay....but I don't see any balance problems with miasma right now.
 
I've been a long time Civ player, but I'm new to modding. I just wanted to say thanks for spear-heading this project, Albie. I really like this game. It's a great Civ experience for me, but it was ultimately disappointing. This mod has helped that phenomenally. However, I still have a couple of gripes. One is more of a minor annoyance really, but the other was a major disappointment for me.

1) Are there any plans to modify the troop movement? I mean, humanity just crossed the galaxy in a single generation, there's LEV tech applied to weaponry, and teleportation has been developed, but it still feels like a 3+ turn crawl to get to one side of my territory to the other. In Civ V, my naval units were moving at a rate of 11 tiles a turn. However, seeing as how this is a mod dedicated to balance, I will admit it was after exploiting England's passive, the Great Lighthouse, and the Exploration bonus. I'm not asking for anything that major, but should unit mobilization really feel like such an excruciating chore?

2) During the dev's AMA on Reddit, I managed to get a few questions in. Mainly this:http://www.reddit.com/r/civbeyondearth/comments/2jwiuy/were_the_designers_of_civilization_beyond_earth/clfq4br?context=3
This had me expecting that I could utilize the unit upgrade system to designate different tiers of units for different roles rather than true unit variety, and that had me utterly excited. As we can see, that didn't happen. Are there any plans to add more customization to the unit upgrade system or the promotion system? Because as it stands, the lack of customization here is utterly disappointing.

Anywho, thanks again for doing this and taking the time to listen to player feedback. It's much appreciated.
 
What are the AI changes made by this mod? Does it mean the AI will notice and respond to me building a victory wonder? Currently the only interesting victory type is domination, though that can easily also become boring due to the AI only ever attacking your cities once per war and then waiting for you to steamroll
 
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