bed_03 - RaR, Demigod, random civ

[bed_head7]

510 AD (1) - Trade Military Training to Inca for Lateen Sail and 185g.

530 AD (3) - Meet the Iroquois. They are up all known techs, and huge. By the looks of it, Tibet and America met their end at Iroquois hands.

550 AD (5) - Recieve message that the Iroquois destroyed America. Unfortunately, our galley didn't make it to the mainland.

570 AD (7) - Meet Celts, who are up but not by as much as Iroquois. We also have made it to the sea, so we can hopefully meet some more civs.

590 AD (9) - Meet the Sioux, the last remaining unknown. They are inbetween the Celts and Iroquois in techs.

Built two armies in Kyoto, and I am guessing we are waiting for our UU? I don't really know how armies work in RaR. Barb problem in the north is taken care of, and the Inca have sort of lost their purpose. Current research (Alchemy) is vetoable. No beakers invested. Iroquois know everything that we could research, so it doesn't really matter a whole lot. We'll get crop rotation soon, so we can do some irrigation in Kyoto. I think that covers it.

 

[Bezhukov]

Got it. Will play tomorrow, preparing for war on Inca with our UU. Triggering our GA?

 

[Bezhukov]

I've been playing a diety 25K game as the Iroquois. Their UU is really fun. It's a move 2 archer that doesn't have the HP penalty (regulars have 4, vets 5), enslaves, defensive bombard, does it all for 20 shields.

Iroquois are also expansionist and agricultural, so they can see all the food bonuses at the start of the game. And of course, you still get the Agri food bonus. Probably the best civ for someone new at RandR.

 

[Bezhukov]

Sorry, guys, didn't have the time to write up a turn report. Mostly building infra and some workers to get irrigation going.

Notes:

We need a GA. Kyoto is building one-turn Kensai. Wait until two armies are loaded and send them to the front. Once we get Astronomy, save up a little cash (we can't afford to take more than 3-5 turns off of research or we'll fall too far behind the Iroquois, I propose a research goal of Magnetism so we can cross the Ocean with pillaging armies) to upgrade our defenders around the Inca to pikes. I've constructed barracks in the appropriate places.

The northern cities were out of WLTK day again. Pls keep them happy or they'll never develop. We are religious = cheap shrines and temples. I built several to keep up with Iroquois culture (at 1750, the turns slow down, so good to get culture built by 750AD so it can double for the slow turns.) This means our economy isn't the best, which is why we need a GA.

We can't rely on the GL, because Sioux and Celts are to slow. I've been trading/gifting them all my tech, and they've done little. All but one of our boats sunk on my first turn. We still have the one over there charting the coastlines. Several cities can either grow or produce. I've found its better to get the production boosters and the granary built before focusing on growth, so several ports were swapped to other builds. If unit costs start biting, we can fix this.

Junior will be largely corrupt for a while, good place to crank peasants to irigate and join to other cities. I'd like to try to get Copernicus in Kyoto. We'll miss Leo's.

 

[bed_head7]

Nice prep turns, Bezhukov.

Bezhukov
ThERat <- up
dmanakho
romeothemonk
bed_head7

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-turn
will build more kensai and then attack Inca

IT cancel RoP with inca, we learn usury

1. 710AD
while the GL is working, deficit research is a bit overdone reduce by 10% and get astro in 6

IT we learn engineering

2. 720AD
Iroquois know education already, so GL will be obsolete soon
declare on Inca, attack with army 1 and we have GA
astro now in 3, change kyoto to Leo
attack a few units

IT we lose one unit

3. 730AD
attack huari, but fail to take it

4. 740AD
we take Huari with 3 slaves
advance on Panachmac

IT get astronomy, go for navigation in 8

5. 750AD
we will get education next turn
hold off trading until next turn, hopefully we can get physics for astro
take out 6 units in Panchamac, but there are still more inside

IT incense gets pillaged, Citadel gets heavily pillaged, we learn education

6. 760AD nth much
see that iro have almost 17000g
barely take Pancamac with 9 slaves, clear around 5 units
we will soon be able to steamroll inca

IT iroquois start copernicus, they have atro, no wonder no trading was possible

7. 770AD
clear more units try to minimise pillaging


8. 780AD kill more units

IT unfortunate twist of events, Iro finish Leo and Sioux finish copernicus, we had 2 turns to go

9. 790AD
we get a pretty expensive university
capture Pucara

10. 800AD
banking is known by 2 civs, maybe can trade with navigation which comes in 2

we should be able to defeat the Inca within the next 10 turns, the initial brunt of units has been defeated

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The northern cities were out of WLTK day again

This, Bezhukov, is a chronical problem in SGs.
Don't even start preaching it, it'll be to no avail...

 

[Bezhukov]

Well, bummer on missing Copernicus. Looks like the super-tourism science city strategy is not panning out. We had the shields but lacked the techs. This may be due to the fact that our lands are extraordinarily food poor. This doesn't so much hurt growth as it inhibits the amount of high-shield tiles that can be worked.

Now that we have irrigation, however, we should be able to take off.

Great job of the warring - not my favorite part of the game, glad to leave it to a more blood-thirsty player.

GA's in RandR are 30 tuns. Let's make sure we're maxing shields over growth and getting all the production boosters built until GA runs out. When those are done, we can focus on sci and tax in coastal cities and units in inland ones to prepare for the invasion.

Does the slaves I'm hearing about mean we are razing cities? May want to start capturing if the Incas are soon gone.

As to Doc's comment, the saving grace is that few people build slave markets either, so sometimes you get WLTK by accident.

I have confidence that the folks on this team will teach me a thing or two along the way.

 

[Bezhukov]

If we get a leader, let's save for the International Port (Satsuma looks good for that). Requires mapmaking.

 

[bed_head7]

Sorry about WLTKD. I lowered lux for one turn, then remembered about WLTKD and raised it back to where it was, and didn't realize that not all of the cities went back to celebrating. Other than that, I didn't notice cities ever stop celebrating.

 

[Bezhukov]

It's not worth it to run 20% lux for the whole civ just to keep WLTK day in a few cities. It is worth it to limit the pop in those cities to 5 (and then 6 when they can handle that). When I got the game, most of the cities were at 6 or 7 pop, several were lacking even shrines, and none had temples.

Some were even building ports.

Ports will be very necessary soon, but why spend 15-30 turns building them, when you can spend 5-7?



One note: Pentagon requires Oil, so can't be built until the IA, even with thre armies. We can easily build all the armies we need, so pls save leaders fo small wonders - there are several coming up.

 

[bed_head7]

Well, it was WLTKD in more than a few, and if running 20% lux gets our infrastructure up faster, then I am all for it.

My big problem is that I am stubbornly refusing to change the way I play at all. I still don't know from memory what most improvements do, I just check one in the 'pedia and if it looks good start it.

 

[Bezhukov]

>if running 20% lux gets our infrastructure up faster, then I am all for it.

In my book this is a big no-no, and if we've been doing it regularly, it's a good explanantion for why we are so far behind in tech, causing us to miss key wonders and lack things to use Kyoto's shields on.

The first priority is the core economy. But that's beside the point. We can develop the fringe cities without sacrificing the core - by limiting their pop.

 

[Bezhukov]

We don't need to have the pedia memorized, just a consistent strategy.

1. Core cities: keep high shield tiles worked until production boosters and granaries are built, then grow and build sci/tax boosters, with happiness help as needed.

2. Fringe cities (more than half corrupt): limit pop to keep WLTK day, otherwise, same as 1.

3. Very corrupt cities: maintain WLTK day, build peasants to irrigate and grow core cities (by joining).

Feel free to offer modifications to this plan.

 

[bed_head7]

Running 20% lux doesn't sacrifice the core, it just means that we research slower. I am not used to having to build wonders to keep up. I am not even really sure that we needed all the wonders we missed. But the point is that we aren't really in a situation where we need to emphasize techs over infrastructure. I felt like we were catching the Iroquois in techs anyway, but maybe I was wrong.

 

[Bezhukov]

Production boosters are the following:

1. Slave Market (only in cities less than half corrupt): +25%, causes unhappiness

2. Forge (all cities) +50%

3. Water Mill (only available in cities with fresh water) +25%

4. Wind Mill (same as Water, but available in all cities, build if city can make at least 6 or so net spt) +25%

5. Town Clock (build at 8 or so net spt) +25%

6. Guild Hall (at 10 spt) +25% production, +50% tax

That's all we have for now, more will come later, but I usually wait for factories to build them.

 

[dmanakho]

Interesting discussion and i believe i am up in this game.

Will play tomorrow.

Please give me directions to follow if there any in addition to those mentioned already.

 

[bed_head7]

Right, you are up, I am on deck. Unless romeo is back. I am not sure what the date it is at the moment.

 

[Bezhukov]

To keep up with a runaway civ usually requires at leaast 3/4 turn research in my experience. If the Iroquois are isolated on their own continent, we may be able to go slower, as it will be difficult for them to eat the other two civs.

I've found wonders to be the best use of a high shield city like Kyoto. Such cities are really unique to RandR (hills and mountsin produce an extra shield, and RandR has many more production boosters) and require some different thinking than unmodded.

Another reason to try to keep up the tech is how much your productivity and general options depend on future advances. Political Philosophy is required to form alliances, Refrigeration reveals super cows and wheat that produce a ton of food, while also allowing fisheries. Fisheries will be a huge help for us, with all our hill coastal cities.

Of course, I don't need to tell you how much rails help. We could of course try to overwhlem the Iroquios with Kensai, but there is no unit available with over 4 defense until the mid-IA and armies only hold two units, so a landing before then will be perilous.

 

[Bezhukov]

The reason our infrastructure has lagged so badly, at least judging from the turns I inherited, is that we are not working high shield tiles. You may notice how many cities are starving when I hand off the game - this is sometimes necessary to get the shields to establish the cities. Building 20 turn ports in cities lacking forges is another example.

Compare Satsuma in the 600 and 700AD save, for instance.