bed_03 - RaR, Demigod, random civ

[ThERat]

save

Pre-turn
different game again, feel like a small boy, don't know what to do. lucky Bez gives great advice, will try and follow

1.180BC
move workers to Nara for mining

2. 160BC
nth much

IT we get democracy and the academy

3. 140BC
finish some worker action, elite champ beats barb horse and we revolt
maximise food for the anarchy turns

IT guess what, Kyoto gets hit by disease

4. 120BC
nth much

IT Kyoto down to 8

5. 100BC
we are a democracy
what is this government good for? corruption seems pretty bad
research set to mythology since we want literature, oh 80% max so that's good

6. 80BC
nth

IT Iroquois finish Chichen Itza
check the civilpedia and realise they are an age ahead, good luck to us, we better get GL faster

7. 60BC

IT we get mythology, go for poetry in 4
for a change Tokyo hit by disease. If this wouldn't be that ridiculous, I would laugh

8. 40BC
horse kills it, 2nd army kills 2 spears and raze Teajo, horse kills MI [29-0]

IT Tokyo down to 3, Celts finish Temple of Zeus

9. 20BC
Inca know republic, exchange it for democracy

IT oh, Tokyo down to 2, treble hit by disease is nice, isn't it
lost supply of incense

10. 1AD
I left it here as it is, I have some workers on top of forrest that could be chopped, since we can't work them anyway with that amount of growth.
but would like to hear team opinion
we can only hope to get GL and meet AI after that so we get a mountain of techs. let Inca flourish so long

 

[bed_head7]

Hmm, a full age. Imagine the flood of techs if we do get the GL. I am pretty sure there is player after you. Where, o where...nevermind, found it. dmanakho, do some stuff.

By the way, I would like to second what was just said. Without romeo and Bezukhov especially, this may have been a terrible failure, instead of whatever it is now.

 

[Bezhukov]

What tech does Itza require? I thought it just required 3 temples or something. It does expire with Jurisprudence. We probably should have tried to get it, considering our coruption problem.

No reason to panic, we can head for library if you want, but since it needs a pre-build, we should be able to get it anyway (the tree to Shangri La is shorter). If you go for library first, build HE along the way (doesn't require an army) Join workers to Tokyo and Kyoto ASAP! we have plenty right now and they need to stay up on pop. Nara can always make more, as it is not very productive. FP will help corruption by increasing OCN, I think. Try to keep corrupt cities at 5 pop and in WLTK day (run 10% lux), should be able to get two or three shields per turn toward a courthouse. W/CH, they will be about half corrupt (see Hilltown). In the core, slave market, worker Housing, and forge are so cheap, might as well build them first. Mined hills give 4 spt, so may sacrifice some growth to get these built. Needs micromanaging.

 

[Bezhukov]

wait for Inca to research Slavery for us. We need to stick to Monastacism/Library branch.

 

[romeothemonk]

IIRC Chichen Izca is a very nice wonder, but it only requires 3 temples. I cannot recall offhand what Tech enables it, but we are by no means an age behind.
I would take 3 deep breaths, 2 shots of Jose Gold, and continue.
We should do as Bez suggests, and merge all native workers into kyoto first, and Tokyo Second. As Tokyo finishes FP, have it start a prebuild for Angkor Wat/shangri La. (I think those require a temple though)
Have Kyoto build the following things in this order:
Production boosters (slave market should take 1 turn)
Science boosters
Wonders especially TGL.
Remember that TGL requires an 80 shield library first.
The rest of the empire should work on filling out Bez's dotmaps, building science/culture.

 

[romeothemonk]

Lest we forget, here are Bez's Dotmaps. Some of the cities are already moved/planted.

 

[dmanakho]

I have it..
i will carefully study the thread messages and play...
I am up in 2 games already, so i will probably play most likely tomorrow.

I don't post much here, simply because i don't have much to suggest but i read it all and trying to learn...
Certainly big thanks to Bezhukov and Romeo and also DocT for all the tips.

 

[Bezhukov]

On the dotmaps:

Kagoshima doesn't need to be moved, it's fine where it is.

The tundra cities will not be possible until the IA (City Planning allows planting forests). This means the AI also will not found cities there, however.

The spot next to the volcano near Tenoch is poorly placed, please omit it. Might make more sense to move Sapporo one tile SW to grab the sheep and iron.

The spot over by the Inca is now in Inca territory. We can still grab the Incense with a city one tile NW of that spot (requires Hardy Settler). Need to do this to build Shangri La and temples/basilicas (as we are religious, these are good things to build). Before settling this city, sign an RoP and get some more units over there to guard against sneaks/flips. Also make sure we have a barrier of 3 defense Spears across the southern mountain range. If they do attack, we can play mostly defense, as we have no 3 attack units yet - nor do the Inca.

First priority - join workers to Tokyo to get the FP built.

Once we control all our non-tundra territory, I think all this requires is the settler that was in Tenoch during my turns settling the grassland spot to the NE, founding any more cities will be low priority. Concentrate on boosting production in the cities we have.

 

[dmanakho]

I apologize... I'd like to request a skip..
Some RL stuff came up this weekend... won't be able to play

 

[romeothemonk]

I got it then.
Then I will be on auto skip.

 

[romeothemonk]

IHT: Rushing is expensive. Rush courthouse in Junior.
Trun 1: Disease hits kyoto. Reg champ kills barb.
Turn 2: We learn poetry. Disease again. Kyoto starts the HE. Upgrade a bunch of slaves.
Turn 3: Lost 3 champs to barbs. upgrade more slaves.
Turn 4: Iro build Sun Tzu's
Turn 5: Get Slavery and Fermentation and 80 gold for mythology. We lack wines.
Turn 6: Merge workers into Tokyo, FP in 1.
Turn 7: Drama to Lit. The tibetans have been destroyed. Fp finishes.
Turn 8: Not much
Turn 9: HE finishes, disease hits kyoto. Cancel RoP with Inca.
Turn 10: Slave markets are built in kyoto and Tokyo. We are all set up to take out Huari, you just need to declare war. Owning our own gold is invaluable at this stage. The Inca have math, but I didn't feel like trading for it. I think we can declare war, Blitz Huari, and let lots of Inca die on our spears. Tokyo now builds vets, and should build spears like crazy after its shrine finishes.
Disease really sucked this go around, Kyoto got hit 4 times total and the city way over by the Inca got nailed as well.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed03-100AD.SAV

 

[Bezhukov]

"Owning our own gold is invaluable at this stage."

Yes, that's why we made sure to secure some near Tokyo.



I actually made the same mistake as I was trying to figure out the war plans handed to me.

Can we have a discussion on the inevitable mad rush to war? We have only one research partner, while the other world may have all five working together. Why weaken that partner? We also have a maximum of 2 attack against 3 defense units.

The main reason to delay war: tourism in Kyoto. That time is passing fast, but we should have the shields to get it (this is why I recommended Shangri La). Tourism commerce gets all bonuses later in the game. So 10 cpt becomes 150 beakers from one tourism source alone. Also need to keep pop up in Kyoto - have Nara make workers to join...

If we leave Inca alone, he'll give us trade, commerce/riding/military training/iron working/seafaring while we're going for monasticism and lit. This gets us pretty close to Naval Spirit.

 

[bed_head7]

I'm with Bezhukov here. I thought we were going to delay war, unless they had something we badly needed. By the way, I've got it.

 

[romeothemonk]

Well, in the normal C3C I am a quiet builder, but RaR brings out the bloodthirsty Warmonger in me. I am all about as much war as possible as often as possible in RaR. I would take one city, make them suicide a ton of units, while we leaderfish, then declare peace and take their techs. Rinse and repeat. I have found that in RaR you can extend wars longer than you would think possible.
Kyoto is on a library prebuild. Libraries are 80 shields and I just chose theatre as a placeholder.

 

[Bezhukov]

>Well, in the normal C3C I am a quiet builder, but RaR brings out the bloodthirsty >Warmonger in me.

That's funny, I'm the opposite.



All those juicy production boosters make those 42 attack, 8 move Apaches nice and cheap. They are fun to watch plow through TOW's like spears...



In our case, such ridiculous power comes with Kensai. Leaders only come half as often on D as they do on O, and that is the only benefit I can see to war now (we have no offense with which to take cities).

 

[Bezhukov]

We also want the Inca building academies instead of Eagle Warriors right now. So let's lay low. If our situations were reversed, then war would be advisable.

 

[ThERat]

I agree with Bez, leave our only trading partner at the moment are Inca. Once we secured the GL, maybe we can think of a war, since we will get a boost later on then. But for now, build.

That's funny, I'm the opposite

maybe due to my lack of RaR knowledge I am the same, building rather than war.

But, since this is my first RaR experience, there are 2 things, that really are on top of my dislike list.

1. disease is too abundant. when flood plains are are rich food source and jungle is good too, you can't tunr them into a death zone via disease. there should be a better balance.

2. 2 tile movement makes everything so slow

 

[bed_head7]

2 tile movement feels awful, but DocT explained in LK88 that that makes naval logistics more important, which is actually a pretty good thing. Why build boats in unmodded?

 

[ThERat]

DocT explained in LK88 that that makes naval logistics more important

sounds good but as I can see so far, unless on pangaea, I have never had so FEW boats built as we have by now

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

1. disease is too abundant. when flood plains are are rich food source and jungle is good too, you can't tunr them into a death zone via disease. there should be a better balance.

Err...this is nothing we had our hands on. Completely unchanged.
You prolly have insanely bad luck here.

The 2 move on roads helps the AI, seriously. In unmodded, the human can far to easy bring in defenders, Artillery or other slow movers, something the AI cannot properly. In RaR, it still is possible with proper logisitics - but you cannot reinforce as fast, so you have to think before going in. And, that makes fast units with a better defence (like the Mali UU), and Horse Archers useful - a Knight has a way better chance to defend if he's backed up.