bed_03 - RaR, Demigod, random civ

[dmanakho]

I understand what Bezhukov is saying about starving cities to kepp WLTKD
or about starving cities by placing citizen on high shields...
But for the player who only played classic PTW, C3C it is very hard to change mentality.
It just doesn't feel right ot put your own city on starvation diet....

Oh, well.. RaR is truly different game...

 

[Bezhukov]

Well, you don't starve them down to one, of course. Usually, I'll get the box full, then run them for a few turns of -1 to -3 fpt until the box is near empty, then repeat.

The northern cities that got too big, you can let them drop pop until they get the right size, then go to the above pattern.

Now that we have irrigation, this sort of thing should no longer be too necessary, but can still be useful here and there.

 

[ThERat]

Does the slaves I'm hearing about mean we are razing cities? May want to start capturing if the Incas are soon gone.

of course not, we will steamroll their remaining 5 or so citites. happened that they parked 2 hardies and 3 workers in the city.

if I wouldn't have built our UU for 5 turns in Kyoto, we would have gotten Cop, but in hindsight we are all smarter...

by the way, due to pillaging of incense, lux is up and WLTK day has all but gone for many cities. once we kicked out Inca, let's reconnect and celebrate WLTK parties again

 

[Bezhukov]

Incense is not a luxury. We may be getting some war weariness (we are a Democracy). My fault we missed Copernicus - I saw that Iroquois were close to Leo's when I built the embassy there. I just didn't think Sioux would get Astronomy in time for the cascade. We didn't trade it to them, did we?

Pls do not turn up lux over 10% unless we are rioting - we need the cash/sci. Noethern cities should be in WLTK at 5 or 6 pop unless we have war weariness at 10%. You can build cheap happy buildings there sonce we are religious.

 

[dmanakho]

@Bezhukov, DocT,Team:
I played 2 turns. captured 2 incas cities. Produced a leader will be saving for international port. Got navigation, traded it for banking +gpt with Incas and celts.
2 questions.
1) can start researching for Map making to build Int. Port but Iro's have that tech already. Or i can go for political Phylosophy nobody has yet and hopefully we can trade it for Map.making with Iro's... Both can't be researched faster than 6 turns.
2). War Weariness hits really hard on my second turn. i can only continue if i raise lux slider to 40% but then no research is possible faster than in 15 turns
Should i keep going warring with incas and that can take rest of my turns due to jungles and island incas have city on. Or should i make peace and dedicate our GA to research??? I am leaning to the latter option..
I will wait for feedback before i continue the game.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I really cannot tell you much about the shape of your empire. But I can tell the AI usually head for PolPhil after MM (because of the Diplo option), so you shouldn't count on getting there first.

 

[Bezhukov]

Yeah, letting the Inca live 20 more turns won't kill us. Them's the breaks with Democracy. If we hadn't been needing the GA so badly, we could have amassed sufficient Kensai to finish the job quickly.

As to Cpernicus - of course it would have been nice to have, but in this case I believe the 5 Kensai we got instead were more valuable. And at least the evil Iroquois were not the ones who got it. It may be as valubale in Sioux hands as in our own.

As for research, let's get Magnetism first so we can trade with the other continent (and try to send a pillaging pike army to the Iroquois before he gets Hussars). We can trade Magnetism for MM and Pol Phil. Or do the Iroquois already have it? Wouldn't hurt to make a push for Pol Phil if they do, worst that can happen is that it gets cheaper when they get it.

 

[Bezhukov]

Also would welcome input on placing the International Port. Please read what it does and advise where it would be best to put it. I'm thinking Satsuma, to give it enough food to work all those hills - what do you think?

Great news on the leader!

 

[dmanakho]

ok, I will make peace with Inca.

I have to research Physics before going to Magnetism. Iro's already have Physics.

So would it be better to go Physics->Magnetism?
or gamble for Pol.Phil and hoping we get there first to open trade options with Iros.?

Iros alsho have Gunpowder on us and i am not sure how many techs behind gunpowder they have that we don't.

 

[romeothemonk]

Hey Y'all I'm back.
I would make peace ASAP, then end up heading for absolute monarchy. (My favorite RaR government)
I would make sure the IP is in the first ring, or send it to a really corrupt place (Junior), and then build the summer palace there.

 

[Bezhukov]

Another option is shutting out the Iroquois altogether (not trading them anything) to slow them down and taking advantage of the cheaper research costs on techs they already know while we catch up.

Pls explain to me the almost universal charm of Abs Mon? Why give up one commerce from every single square under our control? Maybe once we get the tech lead or when when we get rails and refrig, but please not until then.

Six turn research won't cut it - in Abs Mon, we'd be at ten or worse.

 

[romeothemonk]

Abs Monarchy has lower corruption then Demo, I have noticed around 20% less, but that is by no means indicative of anything.
In Abs monarchy, There is large unit support and no WW. The Capitol supplies most of the economy period in RaR, and we could build the Estates General to make the capitol better.
Abs monarchy is an intelligent Warmongers dream government, and I have already stated my proclivity for blood in RaR. Barring this, I would then angle for Smiths. (way out I know but really Nice.)

 

[dmanakho]

pre-turn:
change sapporo to basilica in 1turn since it should bring WLTKD in that town.
Is it a good tactic to change citizens to specialists to generated WLTKD?

IBT. Larry windmill->town clock; Larry library->toll house; sapporo basilica-peasant;
Inca be gone temple->courthouse.

T1. 810AD. trying to figure out what would be the best task for workers... Khmm...
Some irrigation would be nice i believe.
Attacking Incas city chan-chan. Army kills 3 defenders... still some are left. another army kills another, still more to go and i ran out of moves. kensai kills spear.
Elephant kills another spear and great leader is produced. I remember Bezhukov told us to keep it for international port, so i am sending it to Satsuma and will choose Map Making as the next tech to research.
captured Inca town of Paracus. Iro's have almost 19000gold in treasury. That must be RaR thing, never saw so wealthi feudal AIs in my Civ experience.
Lux is set to 20%. it is not really possible to drop it down without riots in multiple cities. I hope we can get it down once Incas are gone.

IBT. Navigation comes. I trade it to Sioux for banking +170gold+29Gpt; trade it to Celts for 7gtp and 1 shiny nickel. Tokyo Kensai->kensai. Shimunoseki peasant->shrine.
Yokhama kensai->kensai; new osaka kensai->kensai. Iro's are building Magellan's

T2. 820AD War weariness hits hard and after having discussion with Bezhukov i make peace with Incas. I've also received their island city of Paramonga+some cash for the peace treaty. Will be easier to take them out in 20 turns this way. lux slider is down to 10%. Switch Tokyo and yokohama from Kensai to libraries. New osaka is only the city to build kensais for a while.
Start reseacrh on Physics in 5 turns.

IBT. Kyoto Market->lab. Bizen Academy->water mill. Sapporo peasant->water mill.


T3. 830AD. Mostly worker actions.

IBT. Extended RoP with Sioux.. They even paid us extra 11 gold for that. Same for Celts - extended RoP for18 gold they paid.

T4. 840AD. I've re-read the thread again and Bezhukov said we'd better use our GA to build production boosters before anything else.. So i switched few library build to production boosters like water mill and town clocks.

T5. 850AD. Worker actions.

IBT. Malinalco port->basilica.. i should have switched to basilica earlier to generate WLTKD. I missed this city somehow. New Osaka kensai->kensai. Sioux built Knights templar.

T6. 860AD. Sioux have phyics. Drop sci. slider down to 10%. physics is still in 1 turn.

IBT. Physics comes. i decided to sell it to Celts for 2gpt38gold and arhitecture. Research is set to Magnetism in 6 turn. Kyoto lab->school; Kagoshima windmill->townclock. Junior peasant->peasant. Narra windmill->town clock. Suo major port->windmill (????).

T7. 870AD. Worker actions. Arrrghhh!!! Iro's beat us again.. They have magnetism...
I should have started research toward Political Philosophy, but i trusted DocT.

IBT: Fukushima lab->windmill. Shiminoseki shrine->windmill

T8. 880AD. Worker actions.

IBT. Tokyo town clock->guild hall. Hill town windmill->guild hall. yokohama town clock->guild hall

T9. 890AD. Worker actions.

IBT. Tenochtitlan windmill->basilica. Bizen wind mill->town clock. Citadel slave market->windmill. New Osaka kensai->kensai.

T10. I assigned few worker tasks and left many for the next player to decide what to do... magnetism comes in 2 turns and we will have trading opportunities with Celts and Sioux. I did join few peasants to several core cities. Probably made a mistake by joining worker to Kyoto... I didn't know it was possible to have 12+ pop city before hospitals, so Kyoto is starving on pop 13 right now, but workers should irrigate and level Kyoto in food. Incas are down to 3 cities and should be taken care about in not time as soon as peace deal is expired. I might have one or two workers on go to order, but i hope i caught them all before passing the game to next player.
Workers chop forest near Yokohama, i thought we could irrigate those plains and move citizen from sea tiles to shield generating tiles.

REMEMBER!!! We have a leader in Satsuma!

As usually, please let me know how i did... tried to follow the thread suggestions, but still very weak RaR player.

 

[bed_head7]

romeo is up.

dmankho, your turns looked good to me. But then, what do I know?

 

[Bezhukov]

>still very weak RaR player.

There is not one decision you described that I would argue with. As to the capital being the economy - yeah, if you can get enough tourism and science wonders, it can - but if you develop the coastal cities properly, and get to fisheries in a timely manner, they are eventually where the big commerce comes from.

Luckily, we're religious, so we can do both.

= )

I'll often just stay in Demo until Soc Demo - which is just ridiculous with no maintenance costs. Fed Repub is sometimes worth it, with the equivalent of two Estate Generals and keeping the trade bonus. given that I'd estimate our lands to be roughly equivalent to the Iroquois, we should be able to out-develop them. Invading a lone AI on a huge continent with 4 defense units doesn't sound like a good time.

I could envision getting a pile on Hiawatha (mainly to screw up his trade - he's getting all that gold by selling his techs to his buddies) and sending some nuisance forces to pillage and maybe raze a key city, be we ain't holding anything until MG's, if then.

 

[romeothemonk]

IHT: Worker actions.
Turn 1: MOving
Turn 2: Moving. Cities can grow to 7 withot Ducts/ports, and 15 without sewage systems.
Turn 3: Brennus gives us gunposder, 6 gpt, and a relatively good WM for Magnetism. Crazy horse coughs up MM for Magnatism. Rush IP. Camels and Spices gets us cotton and furs and WM and 20 gold from Crazy horse. Do a 4 for 2 trade with Brennus for lux. We get a whole bunch more productivity and WLTKD.
Turn 4: Worker actions and upgrades.
Turn 5: Both the Celts and Sioux turn up with Matchlock.
Turn 6: Not much going on. Select theory of Warfare at Max.
Turn 7: Total builder turns.
Turn 8: Ibid
Turn 9: Ibid
Turn 10: Sell Theory of Warfare to Celts and Sioux for gold and gpt. Found Echingo. Leave peasant in Bizen to merge in next turn. Moving Natural peasants to Satsuma to add in. Trying to build the East India in Satsuma. Kyoto is building Armies, as we have nothing better to build there now. Went through and sold all our worker housings. Didn't know they were there until I was really concentrating on Satsuma.
We saved 10 gpt by selling the obsolete worker housings. Do not build the Royal tournament. We do not need it, it becomes obsolete quickly and costs us 2 gpt the whole game.
I would continue building bazaars, markets, tolls, etc. Then we can prebuild Smiths in about 20 turns. Smiths is even more important in RaR.
In 2 turns we get to start in on the Inca again. DO NOT TRADE WITH THE IRO. I am choosing metallurgy, hoping to get a trade for political philosophy. We will have to research absolutism on our own though. I would build the summer palace in Satsuma after the East India Company.
We are building 1 settler in Junior that should go to the far hill by Junior.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh03-1000ad.SAV

 

[Bezhukov]

The master has returned - lots of great insight there. Hope I haven't steered the ship too far of course in your absence. Great news on getting all the Sioux and Celt luxes - was afraid we'd have to arrange a pile to do that. Are they trading with the evil Iros?

I see a city up in the tundra - let's hold of of rushing stuff there, as it will be better placed to get the bonus resources once we can plant forests. Looking at the behemoth Iroquois, it looks like we're in this for the long haul. Might as well get the courthouse built in Kyoto, so we can build the Prison with Jurisprudence. Good call on Royal Tourney.

Let's get our cities defended to prevent an Iro sneak.

 

[romeothemonk]

A couple of quick notes:
I mistakenly referred to TMS as The Materials society. I was quickly corrected at the conferenct, it is The Minerals, Metals and Materials Society.
I would build the courthouse 1 turn before we get Juris. This will reduce our Upkeep. I would however build a courthouse in Tokyo, as it could benefit from one.
The city in the tundra is fairly well placed, and there is room for 1 more fishing village up there.

 

[bed_head7]

Okay, I guess it is my turn now.

 

[bed_head7]

1010 AD (1) - Metallurgy known by Sioux.

1020 AD (2) - Declare on Inca.

1030 AD (3) - Get Metallurgy, start Newtonian Synthesis. Machu Picchu captured.

1060 AD (6) - Through a mixture of terrible luck and mixing up units, still haven't taken Cuzco. Somehow, I managed to lose multiple Kensai to a single defense two unit with hill bonus.

1070 AD (7) - Finally get Cuzco.

1080 AD (8) - Get Cupisnique, and the Incan continental holdings are ours.

1090 AD (9) - Get Naval Cannon, Political Philosophy and 450g from Iroquois for Newtonian Synthesis. Then I guess I accidentally hit enter twice from the F4 screen, and go to IT before I can trade with the Sioux.

1100 AD (10) - Well, Absolutism is still on the table. Sioux give up 350g, 25gpt, and Absolutism for Newtonian Synthesis and Naval Cannon. Start Juris Prudence.

I built science and commerce buildings almost exclusively. I didn't want all commerce buildings because there aren't enough rivals researching to rely on brokering, so we need self research capabilities. With some bad luck and the use a few of our attackers over the river when I thought the river bent, our army is a good deal smaller. There are empty armies all over the place. I just had them running back and forth. I also think that I started a university build by accident in Tokyo. Whenever I open up the civilopedia to check what something does, I then hit enter to close the window and it closes the city window instead. This happened with Tokyo I think and I just remembered I never changed it to something that made more sense.