ThERat
Deity
opening is usually 20 turns, after that 10 turns each
I still prefer that coastal location for the 2nd town
I still prefer that coastal location for the 2nd town
bed_03 - RaR, Demigod, random civ
- Thread starter bed_head7
- Start date
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
ThERat said:
Same numbers as usual. Be aware they all start with Tribal Guards, and the MIL ones with Champs; Aztec start with Jags.
Coastal: You are aware the ocean boni aren't visible without techs?
Jags being Horsemen (with no HP penalty) for TEN shields. Thanks alot for that one, Doc. They are in our game, though lacking a spy, we can't tell if they've started their spaceship yet.
Let's hope they're not close by.
We also lack spies with the Inca, the Tibetans, the Americans, the Sioux, the Iroquois, and the Celts.
Hmmm, no seafaring civs at all. Maybe that coastal city wasn't such a bad idea. Only one sci civ. A very religious game, and also very militaristic, with a healthy helping of agricultural. I'm thinking that this does not bode well for the early rush idea. Let's see what develops.
Here's the problem with a coastal city. It will take twenty turns to grow at one pop and max at two (until we find where the boni are). Not especially useful. Doc, your thoughts? About to resume play.
Let's hope they're not close by.
We also lack spies with the Inca, the Tibetans, the Americans, the Sioux, the Iroquois, and the Celts.
Hmmm, no seafaring civs at all. Maybe that coastal city wasn't such a bad idea. Only one sci civ. A very religious game, and also very militaristic, with a healthy helping of agricultural. I'm thinking that this does not bode well for the early rush idea. Let's see what develops.
Here's the problem with a coastal city. It will take twenty turns to grow at one pop and max at two (until we find where the boni are). Not especially useful. Doc, your thoughts? About to resume play.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
I'd simply found it. Note the Tribe counts as military unit (has a defence), so you cannot pop huts as long as it is around.
Even if the city doesn't grow now, it can provide MPs.
And, Japan sees nothing but Elephants anyway.
About the Civs: Looks like culturally linked was on; that'll give you all the Americans.
Even if the city doesn't grow now, it can provide MPs.
And, Japan sees nothing but Elephants anyway.
About the Civs: Looks like culturally linked was on; that'll give you all the Americans.
Turn Log (I doubt they'll all be this detailed, but I enjoy reading others that are, and I'm still new at this 
):
4000BC: Hill cities give 2 shields under chiefdom, so we will be a hill-dwelling people, preferably hills along this nice river. Move NE, N to settle next turn. Nothing of interest revealed we Japanese arent too hot at spotting good resources.
3975 BC: Kyoto founded, worker decides to let first scout pop the hut. He heads to road the Oasis. Our workers already know how to build roads! What precocious civilization!
Scout in 4 at 2 spt (the governor is apparently the beneficiary of some periodic kickbacks, or something), set research on Masonry; it will be known by two other civs, but we cant count on meeting them in the time we will need it. Counting on hutting it is a little bit of a long shot.
3850 BC: (see previous screenshot) Our scout prevails upon a small nearby settlement to join our fledgling band. And a hardy clan they are! Despite advice to head for the coasts, the 3 fpt floodplains beckon, and Osaka is settled on another river hill S, SW of Kyoto. All production set to scouts! We need to see the world and meet new folks. HardyClanSan our glorious scout heads down the mountain ridge to the SW.
A few turns of playing with lux rates, and then
3700 BC: Scout #2 heading north finds he of the ridiculously cheap horsies, the Aztecs. They are up Boatbuilding. We trade them 1 gpt for 18 gold in hopes of deterring the jags, and switch citizens to the hills and production to a TG and a champ. So much for friendly huts.
3675 BC: Wait, theres one more hut in range before the Tribal Guard comes to start intimidating potentially friendly huts, and HardyClanSan is once again true to his name. Shinto power is strong, and an Aryan tribe begs to join the mighty Japanese.
We deign even to accept those of blond hair and blue eyes, though they will certainly be quickly put to work to serve our heavenly Emperor. Who needs 6fpt Oases, when youve got HardyClanSan?
3650 BC: Well, maybe now we can have a coastal city. The Aryan tribe scouts the coast, and finds a friendly seal lolling next a hill. This will do. Tribal guard comes in and lux goes down, citizens return to the floodplains, as the Aztec spear heads back north. Three scouts in the field. Champ next turn for Osaka.
3625 BC: Tokyo founded on west coast, popping the hut next door to give us Boatbuilding. Canoes really are possibly the most pathetic unit ever, so harbor construction begins. Seals like harbors.
3600BC: Scout pops hut in Aztec lands, unfortunately no jag-killers are released, but we get 25 gold. Bout time we got some gold from those lousy huts!
3575BC: First jag sighted in northern lands. Barb moves to defend hut in south, and scout moves away to the west without popping.
3550BC: Contact with Incas in South. We trade Rit and Boat for Masonry and 20 gold. So my choice of Masonry didnt pan out after all. Oh well. Something had to go wrong! Kyoto switched to Worker Housing in 9. Now what to research? This is a really strange set of civs! Well, I know my neighbors will both be going whole hog for Scrape Mining, and nobody starts with Pottery, and it is a prereq for Dyn, so Pottery it is. Might want one of those granary things at some point. Hopefully our scouts can find the other techs, and some other civs.
3525BC: Incas settle next to scout.
3500BC: Oops, accidently encroach on Aztec lands. Champ built in Osaka. Well, thats about my best start ever on RandR.
Need to get a couple workers built. And get Kyoto going on some settlers. Let the harbor finish in Tokyo it will make the Seal produce 3 fpt.
):4000BC: Hill cities give 2 shields under chiefdom, so we will be a hill-dwelling people, preferably hills along this nice river. Move NE, N to settle next turn. Nothing of interest revealed we Japanese arent too hot at spotting good resources.
3975 BC: Kyoto founded, worker decides to let first scout pop the hut. He heads to road the Oasis. Our workers already know how to build roads! What precocious civilization!
Scout in 4 at 2 spt (the governor is apparently the beneficiary of some periodic kickbacks, or something), set research on Masonry; it will be known by two other civs, but we cant count on meeting them in the time we will need it. Counting on hutting it is a little bit of a long shot.
3850 BC: (see previous screenshot) Our scout prevails upon a small nearby settlement to join our fledgling band. And a hardy clan they are! Despite advice to head for the coasts, the 3 fpt floodplains beckon, and Osaka is settled on another river hill S, SW of Kyoto. All production set to scouts! We need to see the world and meet new folks. HardyClanSan our glorious scout heads down the mountain ridge to the SW.
A few turns of playing with lux rates, and then
3700 BC: Scout #2 heading north finds he of the ridiculously cheap horsies, the Aztecs. They are up Boatbuilding. We trade them 1 gpt for 18 gold in hopes of deterring the jags, and switch citizens to the hills and production to a TG and a champ. So much for friendly huts.
3675 BC: Wait, theres one more hut in range before the Tribal Guard comes to start intimidating potentially friendly huts, and HardyClanSan is once again true to his name. Shinto power is strong, and an Aryan tribe begs to join the mighty Japanese.
We deign even to accept those of blond hair and blue eyes, though they will certainly be quickly put to work to serve our heavenly Emperor. Who needs 6fpt Oases, when youve got HardyClanSan? 3650 BC: Well, maybe now we can have a coastal city. The Aryan tribe scouts the coast, and finds a friendly seal lolling next a hill. This will do. Tribal guard comes in and lux goes down, citizens return to the floodplains, as the Aztec spear heads back north. Three scouts in the field. Champ next turn for Osaka.
3625 BC: Tokyo founded on west coast, popping the hut next door to give us Boatbuilding. Canoes really are possibly the most pathetic unit ever, so harbor construction begins. Seals like harbors.
3600BC: Scout pops hut in Aztec lands, unfortunately no jag-killers are released, but we get 25 gold. Bout time we got some gold from those lousy huts!
3575BC: First jag sighted in northern lands. Barb moves to defend hut in south, and scout moves away to the west without popping.
3550BC: Contact with Incas in South. We trade Rit and Boat for Masonry and 20 gold. So my choice of Masonry didnt pan out after all. Oh well. Something had to go wrong! Kyoto switched to Worker Housing in 9. Now what to research? This is a really strange set of civs! Well, I know my neighbors will both be going whole hog for Scrape Mining, and nobody starts with Pottery, and it is a prereq for Dyn, so Pottery it is. Might want one of those granary things at some point. Hopefully our scouts can find the other techs, and some other civs.
3525BC: Incas settle next to scout.
3500BC: Oops, accidently encroach on Aztec lands. Champ built in Osaka. Well, thats about my best start ever on RandR.
Need to get a couple workers built. And get Kyoto going on some settlers. Let the harbor finish in Tokyo it will make the Seal produce 3 fpt.
ThERat
Deity
nice set of turns, 3 towns already. in my first RaR it took ages to get those hardyclans out. but jags next to us sounds like trouble
got it
3 towns already. in my first RaR it took ages to get those hardyclans out. but jags next to us sounds like trouble got it
Nice post, and what a way to start off your SG career!
When uploading saves, it helps to name them for something related to the game and then give year. I would have called the save bed03_3500BC, or something along those lines. It helps to differentiate between any other Tokugawa's of the Japanese that might be out there.
When uploading saves, it helps to name them for something related to the game and then give year. I would have called the save bed03_3500BC, or something along those lines. It helps to differentiate between any other Tokugawa's of the Japanese that might be out there.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
lurker's comment: You better build a couple of units ASAP. The AI seems to calculate your strength by your unit/city count ratio; that's why you rarely get attacked when you have a small, well defended empire, even if the Military Idiot...Advisor tells you they'd outnumber you.
In RaR, I was attacked countless times after getting a free city. You should have at least one defender per city; doesn't have to be in the city IMHO.
Techs: With your collection of Americans and Celts (who's traits are pretty 'American'), I would focus on Alphabet/ Mathematics. You would be pretty safe to be first there even on Deity (Alpha has zero, and Math very little value for the AI).
In RaR, I was attacked countless times after getting a free city. You should have at least one defender per city; doesn't have to be in the city IMHO.
Techs: With your collection of Americans and Celts (who's traits are pretty 'American'), I would focus on Alphabet/ Mathematics. You would be pretty safe to be first there even on Deity (Alpha has zero, and Math very little value for the AI).
ThERat
Deity
Pre-Turn
getting familiar with all those things, we need more workers I think.
all things look good
IT Aztecs ask us to leave, they are polite
1.730BC
northern scout runs into bab and quickly returns
need to increase lux to 30%
IT disease hits Kyoto
2.not much
IT Kyoto hit again down to 3
4 Kyoto worker housing -> tribal guardsman
6 2 jags make a move towards Kyoto, that looks bad
I pop that hut in the south and get another tribe, now where to settle? going back towards home?
settling where we are?
decide to settle there, no point going back
trade Aztecs 3gpt for 55g to deter them from attacking us
IT they still do
1st jag attack and takes off 2/4hp from our only guardman there
2nd jag defeated flawless and guardman gets promoted to elite
7 one scout runs into a Bab
IT arg disease hits Kyoto again down to pop2
9 Inca know scrape mining now
IT Aztecs build a town next to Kyoto
10
we have 2 guards and one champ in Kyoto. next player can set up attack
5 turns to pottery, hopefully we can trade then.
getting familiar with all those things, we need more workers I think.
all things look good
IT Aztecs ask us to leave, they are polite
1.730BC
northern scout runs into bab and quickly returns
need to increase lux to 30%
IT disease hits Kyoto
2.not much
IT Kyoto hit again down to 3
4 Kyoto worker housing -> tribal guardsman
6 2 jags make a move towards Kyoto, that looks bad
I pop that hut in the south and get another tribe, now where to settle? going back towards home?
settling where we are?
decide to settle there, no point going back
trade Aztecs 3gpt for 55g to deter them from attacking us
IT they still do
1st jag attack and takes off 2/4hp from our only guardman there
2nd jag defeated flawless and guardman gets promoted to elite
7 one scout runs into a Bab
IT arg disease hits Kyoto again down to pop2
9 Inca know scrape mining now
IT Aztecs build a town next to Kyoto
10
we have 2 guards and one champ in Kyoto. next player can set up attack
5 turns to pottery, hopefully we can trade then.
>lurker's comment: You better build a couple of units ASAP.
Good call as usual Doc - looks like we won't be wasting half the trait this time!
Let's make use of that mountain range and impale some jags/get us some slaves.
>You should have at least one defender per city; doesn't have to be in the city >IMHO.
There was a two turn window where Osaka was undefended (2 units for 3 towns). Jags must have set out at that point.
>Techs: With your collection of Americans and Celts (who's traits are pretty >'American'), I would focus on Alphabet/ Mathematics. You would be pretty safe >to be first there even on Deity (Alpha has zero, and Math very little value for >the AI).
I was thinking along these lines (had Alpha selected before Pottery), but figured it wouldn't hurt to squeeze Pottery in there quickly to trade for Scrape with Incas. Who knows, we might meet Tibet. After Pot, definitely Alpha.
To get a champ per turn from Kyoto: MM to get 5 pop and 9 food in the bin, then work Oasis and 3 hills (starving 1fpt). With Worker Housing will make 10spt. Use the Flood Plains to grow Osaka during these turns. When refilling Kyoto, starve Osaka. This is why I built them so close together.
Good call as usual Doc - looks like we won't be wasting half the trait this time!
Let's make use of that mountain range and impale some jags/get us some slaves.
>You should have at least one defender per city; doesn't have to be in the city >IMHO.
There was a two turn window where Osaka was undefended (2 units for 3 towns). Jags must have set out at that point.
>Techs: With your collection of Americans and Celts (who's traits are pretty >'American'), I would focus on Alphabet/ Mathematics. You would be pretty safe >to be first there even on Deity (Alpha has zero, and Math very little value for >the AI).
I was thinking along these lines (had Alpha selected before Pottery), but figured it wouldn't hurt to squeeze Pottery in there quickly to trade for Scrape with Incas. Who knows, we might meet Tibet. After Pot, definitely Alpha.
To get a champ per turn from Kyoto: MM to get 5 pop and 9 food in the bin, then work Oasis and 3 hills (starving 1fpt). With Worker Housing will make 10spt. Use the Flood Plains to grow Osaka during these turns. When refilling Kyoto, starve Osaka. This is why I built them so close together.
This whole RaR concept is so new for me...
I feel i should have played few cheftain game before switching to DG.
I see we are building exotic Otomo no Makuta and it has penalty hit points..
Even after reading Civopedia i couldn't understand what exactly that means. I guess the only way to learn is to wait and see how it works.
t1. 3225BC. Move worker to the hill to road
t2. 3200BC. Worker - roads hill. Kyoto champ->champ.
T3. 3175BC. Sci slider down 40% pottery in 2
T4. 31150C. Kyoto champ->champ. Sci slider down to 30%
t5. 3125BC Pottery comes. Switch to Alphabet to be compelted in 16. Tokyo harbor->worker housing
T6. 3100BC. Edo champion->harbor. Kyoto champion->champion. Volcano erupted
T7. 3075BC. Aztecs would make peace if we pay them a little, but i want to raize that city of theirs 1st
T8. 3050BC. worker finished roading hill moved to plains.
T9. 3025BC. Wow... champs rock.. we killed the only defender of Tlatelonco and champ lost a single HP. We captured city. Definetely different comparing to C3C. pop1 city would have to be raized there.
T10. 3000BC. Brave champion redlined and forced to retread Aztec Jag.
Aztecs will make peace now for either all the gold they have or one of their cities.
Resistance ended in Tletelonco.
I was not sure on build order in our cities and put them to build Asian clans...
But since i suck at RaR i will ask you guys to make a decision. Or may be DocT will lurk around and point on the right thing to do
Dumb question - what tech do we need to learn to build mines?
I feel i should have played few cheftain game before switching to DG.
I see we are building exotic Otomo no Makuta and it has penalty hit points..
Even after reading Civopedia i couldn't understand what exactly that means. I guess the only way to learn is to wait and see how it works.
t1. 3225BC. Move worker to the hill to road
t2. 3200BC. Worker - roads hill. Kyoto champ->champ.
T3. 3175BC. Sci slider down 40% pottery in 2
T4. 31150C. Kyoto champ->champ. Sci slider down to 30%
t5. 3125BC Pottery comes. Switch to Alphabet to be compelted in 16. Tokyo harbor->worker housing
T6. 3100BC. Edo champion->harbor. Kyoto champion->champion. Volcano erupted
T7. 3075BC. Aztecs would make peace if we pay them a little, but i want to raize that city of theirs 1st
T8. 3050BC. worker finished roading hill moved to plains.
T9. 3025BC. Wow... champs rock.. we killed the only defender of Tlatelonco and champ lost a single HP. We captured city. Definetely different comparing to C3C. pop1 city would have to be raized there.
T10. 3000BC. Brave champion redlined and forced to retread Aztec Jag.
Aztecs will make peace now for either all the gold they have or one of their cities.
Resistance ended in Tletelonco.
I was not sure on build order in our cities and put them to build Asian clans...
But since i suck at RaR i will ask you guys to make a decision. Or may be DocT will lurk around and point on the right thing to do
Dumb question - what tech do we need to learn to build mines?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
lurker's comment:
Build orders: Production boosters (be aware Worker Housings obsolete with Feudalism, you may consider the more expensive Forges instead), units (note atm, only the capital can produce Vets; no Barracks available, but the Palaces have that function), Settlers (be aware only the Hardy type ones can enter Mountains/Jungle), rarely happiness. Skip Granaries, they aren't worth it when Settlers cost only one pop-point.
Just an Archer with a HP penalty. Still a good unit for the defenisve bombard.dmanakho said:
You should abstain from this. RaR uses a 'rate cap' for the earlier Govs; for Chiefdom, it is 50%. In other words, neither of Tax/Sci/Lux is supposed to exceed 50%. Unfortunately, the Human can override the cap for taxation; it will be reset to the proper value only at start of the next turn.
Coincidence. Not specific to RaR, must have been some culture there already.
Easy answer - Construction. About mid-ancient. And Irigation comes with Crop Rotation, about 1/4 into the Middle Ages.
Build orders: Production boosters (be aware Worker Housings obsolete with Feudalism, you may consider the more expensive Forges instead), units (note atm, only the capital can produce Vets; no Barracks available, but the Palaces have that function), Settlers (be aware only the Hardy type ones can enter Mountains/Jungle), rarely happiness. Skip Granaries, they aren't worth it when Settlers cost only one pop-point.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I've got it. Expect some more warring to continue unless peace is really profitable.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
IBT: Jag warrior kills our exposed champion (0-1)
Turn 1: Retreat a jag.
Turn 2: pursue said Jag.
IBT: Kill a jag and get a slave. (1-1)
Turn 3: Raze Texcoco getting 21 gold. (2-1) Promote our champion to elite.
Turn 4: Kill another jag.
IBT: Champion kills 2 Champions. (3-3) We should think peace now.
Turn 5: Get peace, scrape mining and 119 gold from the Aztecs. We have iron at Kyoto.
Turn 6: Build Satsuma where I wanted the first Tribe to go.
Turn 7: Build kagoshima by the other sea. Trade pottery to Aztecs for 2 workers and 15 gold. Pottery to Inca for sailing and 85 gold.
Turn 8: Abet to writing.
I must have lost some turns. It is now turn 50.
Domestication is availible for trade. It looks like we our on our continent with the 2 others.
I think we should take it to the Inca a little and do some Oscillating warfare until we own our continent. Just a thought.
The Save
Turn 1: Retreat a jag.
Turn 2: pursue said Jag.
IBT: Kill a jag and get a slave. (1-1)
Turn 3: Raze Texcoco getting 21 gold. (2-1) Promote our champion to elite.
Turn 4: Kill another jag.
IBT: Champion kills 2 Champions. (3-3) We should think peace now.
Turn 5: Get peace, scrape mining and 119 gold from the Aztecs. We have iron at Kyoto.
Turn 6: Build Satsuma where I wanted the first Tribe to go.
Turn 7: Build kagoshima by the other sea. Trade pottery to Aztecs for 2 workers and 15 gold. Pottery to Inca for sailing and 85 gold.
Turn 8: Abet to writing.
I must have lost some turns. It is now turn 50.
Domestication is availible for trade. It looks like we our on our continent with the 2 others.
I think we should take it to the Inca a little and do some Oscillating warfare until we own our continent. Just a thought.
The Save
>Pottery to Inca for sailing and 85 gold.
Sweet - let's get some oars in the water ASAP! Find Tibet and Expansionist civs so we don't waste time on our way to Dynasticism.
Good turns team - one thing, no reason to build Otomo when we can get champs for half the cost. Let's use the iron to pop out a champ a turn from Kyoto (4 pop - Oasis, Iron, Hill, Plains = 8 spt + Worker Housing gets to 10) and overrun the Inca.
Sweet - let's get some oars in the water ASAP! Find Tibet and Expansionist civs so we don't waste time on our way to Dynasticism.
Good turns team - one thing, no reason to build Otomo when we can get champs for half the cost. Let's use the iron to pop out a champ a turn from Kyoto (4 pop - Oasis, Iron, Hill, Plains = 8 spt + Worker Housing gets to 10) and overrun the Inca.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I agree with Bezhukov. I like the idea. I think we have 50 more turns before Champions are not worthwhile anymore.
Second thoughts:
We're three mil civs stuck together in a world that contains multiple AGR civs, as well as a SCI and EXP civ. Any of which could be running away on tech, especially if they're in contact with one another. Oce we get Kensai, our continent will easily bend to our will, but until then, let's play nice with our neighbors and team up on tech. This will allow us to develop Kyoto into a wonder machine for maximum tourism production.
Ideally we could set up an Oracle build to finish when we get Dynasticism so we can immediately get Bronze Working and Construction (allows workers to mine).
We're three mil civs stuck together in a world that contains multiple AGR civs, as well as a SCI and EXP civ. Any of which could be running away on tech, especially if they're in contact with one another. Oce we get Kensai, our continent will easily bend to our will, but until then, let's play nice with our neighbors and team up on tech. This will allow us to develop Kyoto into a wonder machine for maximum tourism production.
Ideally we could set up an Oracle build to finish when we get Dynasticism so we can immediately get Bronze Working and Construction (allows workers to mine).
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