bed_03 - RaR, Demigod, random civ
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ThERat
Deity
I felt the same and the minimum growth actually makes it very tough
this has happened so many times now already, this is a little too much, almost no point settling at those locations, but then that;s a rare spot where a city can actually gorw if not for endless disease.
I put that settler onboard since other locations didn't appeal to me much, I thought we could try that out. Sorry then
No settler hasn't been lost. it was another boat that sunk..
I just wanted to check if suicidal galleys work in RaR and after boat sunk i didn't dare to move boat with settler... So i kept it 10 turns parked near the coast... Stupid i know....
i would appreciate if you guys give me more detailed instructions next time i play.
I just wanted to check if suicidal galleys work in RaR and after boat sunk i didn't dare to move boat with settler... So i kept it 10 turns parked near the coast... Stupid i know....
i would appreciate if you guys give me more detailed instructions next time i play.
This is a complete learning experience for me as well, so the best the two of us (and ThERat too? I can't remember if this is your first experience with RaR) is learn from our collective mistakes and do better next time.
By the way, galleys (or whatever they are) can survive in the sea, as I found out by accident during my turns.
By the way, galleys (or whatever they are) can survive in the sea, as I found out by accident during my turns.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I see it and will get to it on Saturday. I will probably build on/near the sugar to give us another luxury.
Looks pretty decent. The only guidance is to think things through.
We are MIL, we can build archers (champs) for 10 shields. This means it's probably not a great idea to build them for 20. So no Otomos for us. Production boosters kick in at multiples of 4 shields. So its better to run 4 (or 8) shields for a few turns, even if no growth, then max growth with low shields for a few.
What I do on cities like Tokyo is figure out the total number of shields it will produce over the 30 turns it takes to go from pop one to pop three. Then I subtract the amount needed to build a regular clan (please do not build hardies, except in Kyoto), what's left can be used to build champs or boats. We'll develop the cities when we get dyna. The more cities, the more commerce = faster to dyna.
Disease does blow. Try taking the workers off the flood plains when it hits (work hills) to see if that helps. Once its over, work only flood plains to recover the pop as fast as possible.
We are MIL, we can build archers (champs) for 10 shields. This means it's probably not a great idea to build them for 20. So no Otomos for us. Production boosters kick in at multiples of 4 shields. So its better to run 4 (or 8) shields for a few turns, even if no growth, then max growth with low shields for a few.
What I do on cities like Tokyo is figure out the total number of shields it will produce over the 30 turns it takes to go from pop one to pop three. Then I subtract the amount needed to build a regular clan (please do not build hardies, except in Kyoto), what's left can be used to build champs or boats. We'll develop the cities when we get dyna. The more cities, the more commerce = faster to dyna.
Disease does blow. Try taking the workers off the flood plains when it hits (work hills) to see if that helps. Once its over, work only flood plains to recover the pop as fast as possible.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I had a few moments today before an experiment, so I decided to play a bit.
IHT: Swap edo to Shrine. Swap some of our reg champion builds. Unit costs are killing us.
IBT: Aztecs wnat peace, No. Inca go barb hunting near our land. They have at least 10 spare units.
Turn 1: Watch barbs kill some inca, then inca kill the barbs. Move to threaten Aztecs.
Turn 2: Teotihuacan riots. I move units, sorry. Attack Teohauxichal? with Elite champ and we have decision time. I took the city and 16 gold too.
I would vote for rushing the Palace gardens ASAP. A champion army is pretty worthless at this juncture.
A side note. We have a ton of slaves, I will try and get them upgraded to workers. I will have to wait at least 10 hours to play again so comments are helpful.
IHT: Swap edo to Shrine. Swap some of our reg champion builds. Unit costs are killing us.
IBT: Aztecs wnat peace, No. Inca go barb hunting near our land. They have at least 10 spare units.
Turn 1: Watch barbs kill some inca, then inca kill the barbs. Move to threaten Aztecs.
Turn 2: Teotihuacan riots. I move units, sorry. Attack Teohauxichal? with Elite champ and we have decision time. I took the city and 16 gold too.
I would vote for rushing the Palace gardens ASAP. A champion army is pretty worthless at this juncture.
A side note. We have a ton of slaves, I will try and get them upgraded to workers. I will have to wait at least 10 hours to play again so comments are helpful.
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Remeber a RaR army has only **2** units. The armies just plain suck until late game and the Pentagon. The Pentagon has a TECH to enable it, so simply building 3 armies isn't enough.
So far the feeling in my RaR games is to rush small wonders when possible.
This matches my comments on a small wonder well. This early in the game and the tourism bonus will really help over time.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
Actually LK, I have found that a cuirassier, cavalry, MKIV or Armor 2 man armies don't suck. The multiple attacks that an army gives transforms 2 attacks per turn to 3 or 4, and usually against relativley low defense. But I think a champ army is ridiculus, but I want a team opionion.
A Champ army could allow us to light into the Inca that much faster again.
A Champ army could allow us to light into the Inca that much faster again.
I agree on the Gardens - tourism is a big source of commerce to get the full benefit from all the sci boosting wonders we'll want to build in Kyoto.
If unit costs are killing us and the Inca have 10 extra units, that means we're not killing enough Incans.
Seriously - sounds like a good time to oscillate.
If we can get a prebuild ready for the wonder that dyna makes available, I like to try to get as many ancient wonders as I can in the capital for good tourism later. After around 1AD, it's no longer worth it.
If unit costs are killing us and the Inca have 10 extra units, that means we're not killing enough Incans.
Seriously - sounds like a good time to oscillate.
If we can get a prebuild ready for the wonder that dyna makes available, I like to try to get as many ancient wonders as I can in the capital for good tourism later. After around 1AD, it's no longer worth it.
I also see we're still building a Hardy Clan, and that neither the south or the northwest has been settled. What happened to the Clans I was building when I passed the game? Unit costs are kiling us because we don't have enough cities. Settle the open land - develop it when it's full.
BTW, great job on getting slaves - those really help with unit costs. One of the hidden benefits of a MIL civ. Have we joined all native workers yet?
BTW, great job on getting slaves - those really help with unit costs. One of the hidden benefits of a MIL civ. Have we joined all native workers yet?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
We're planning to tone done Tank Armies to 2 units again after the Pentagon, since those are clearly overpowered. The real trick about armies is to only load Elites; since elite status means +2HP compared to Vet in RaR, a 2 Elite Elephant Rider Army e.g. has 16HP...doesn't look bad to me. Of course, the AI will always attack a yellow/red-Army - but that's the way it should be.
Armies in RaR are still powerful, but not overpowered. Rushing the better small wonders is clearly superior to anything before a Heavy Horseman Army (which is the first 4.2.2 unit; with the MilAc bonus, that one ends as 6.3.3 unit)
Armies in RaR are still powerful, but not overpowered. Rushing the better small wonders is clearly superior to anything before a Heavy Horseman Army (which is the first 4.2.2 unit; with the MilAc bonus, that one ends as 6.3.3 unit)
Since we'd do well to ignore the ancient era optional military tree and go straight for stirrup (which enables our UU - Kensai), we won't be needing armies for a while. Kensai armies will be worth it to get move 3 and attack 9, but we'll need to cover them to prevent dangerous counters.
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Armies will become more useless again.
That late in the game I found leaders starting to become useless. Now I really wonder what good they will be late game.
As for loading only elites, that kills your changes to build more armies. A definite catch-22.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
We don't want Armies to be useless. They are still faster, and e.g. a Jeep Army is an insane pillager. A HH Army already rules as attacker.
The one thing we want to shut down is the fact the AI never attacks your armies. They aren't supposed to be untouchable; you need to cover them. And, since the AI does use Armies as well in RaR, I think this is something that worked out pretty well as it was intended. But Tank/Armor Armies with the Pentagon are even more overpowered as unmodded Armies; 3 units with a defence of 10+, with each having something like 30HP
.
A single 3 Tank Army will ensure your victory.
Don't agree with the Elite arguement; if you use every second MGL for a wonder/horribly expensive improvement (pretty realistic), you can fill them entirely with *Elites.
The one thing we want to shut down is the fact the AI never attacks your armies. They aren't supposed to be untouchable; you need to cover them. And, since the AI does use Armies as well in RaR, I think this is something that worked out pretty well as it was intended. But Tank/Armor Armies with the Pentagon are even more overpowered as unmodded Armies; 3 units with a defence of 10+, with each having something like 30HP
.A single 3 Tank Army will ensure your victory.
Don't agree with the Elite arguement; if you use every second MGL for a wonder/horribly expensive improvement (pretty realistic), you can fill them entirely with *Elites.
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I don't think we will agree on this one. I currently have tanks. I am getting leaders from left over elite cavalry. I have already gotten in regular C3C an elite horseman leader during the cavalry and rifleman era attacking a stray MDI. Do I want to put obsolete elites into an army?
As for small wonder rushing, I found in CZ4 and LK86 that you run out of wonders worth rushing. I can't say on the absurd price improvement. I know some of the late game improvements have unreal costs.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Talking about the late-game improvements, like Scyscrapers. The first really expensive one is an Opera House (for a 20k approach).
Again, having to use elites is not needed for Tanks. Those have such a hefty HP bonus, it isn't worth it; the second or even third unit in it will be able to fight something with Def=2, so it'll promote for itself. But for mounted units, it's worth it.
And, it is an intended way to rebalance traits - in RaR, the usually inferior MIL, REL and EXP are helped, while AGR was toned down.
Again, having to use elites is not needed for Tanks. Those have such a hefty HP bonus, it isn't worth it; the second or even third unit in it will be able to fight something with Def=2, so it'll promote for itself. But for mounted units, it's worth it.
And, it is an intended way to rebalance traits - in RaR, the usually inferior MIL, REL and EXP are helped, while AGR was toned down.
Speaking of the Opera House, I suspect it may be the main culprit in the late game AI weakness in RandR. The AI loves culture buildings, and judging from the suggestions the governor makes, the AI doesn't take into account the productive capacity of a city in considering build orders.
So half the AI cities could be tied up for thirty turns buidling Opera Houses instead of units. I've also seen them building Newspapers (!). These (relatively) useless high-shield improvements need to be modfied. BTW, given Parks, what was the thinking behind Labor Union, Seware Plant, et. al. ?
On the other hand, for the human, if your cities are developed properly, Skyscrapers and the like are not prohibitive, due to the extra shields from mountains, mined forest, and hills, as well as all the production boosters. It's the AI that suffers most.
So half the AI cities could be tied up for thirty turns buidling Opera Houses instead of units. I've also seen them building Newspapers (!). These (relatively) useless high-shield improvements need to be modfied. BTW, given Parks, what was the thinking behind Labor Union, Seware Plant, et. al. ?
On the other hand, for the human, if your cities are developed properly, Skyscrapers and the like are not prohibitive, due to the extra shields from mountains, mined forest, and hills, as well as all the production boosters. It's the AI that suffers most.
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