Bede01:Funny thing happened...
- Thread starter Bede
- Start date
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
I wish I could find that post where he explains why.
For now I would have to vote monarchy because:
a) We will be doing a lot of warring for a while because we are declaring and WW will set in if we lose even one town. We;ll get it back of course but someone could sneak our flank. , monarchy - check
b) We will have high unit support costs, monarchy - check
If someone can find the SirPleb article for review I may be swayed. For the life of me I can not remember why his argument won out. I do know this. His argument won when I read it. He KNOWS what he is talking about.
For now I would have to vote monarchy because:
a) We will be doing a lot of warring for a while because we are declaring and WW will set in if we lose even one town. We;ll get it back of course but someone could sneak our flank. , monarchy - check
b) We will have high unit support costs, monarchy - check
If someone can find the SirPleb article for review I may be swayed. For the life of me I can not remember why his argument won out. I do know this. His argument won when I read it. He KNOWS what he is talking about.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
I've read that piece you guys are referring to. Bugs posted it somewhere recently. You do get some unit support in Republic, and I think that unit support increases with city size. (We have several cities that can grow past 6).
Warmongering is quite possible in Republic. WW is not nearly as severe as Democracy. The key to strength in Republic is to have an efficient military. Obsolete units will hurt you badly.
Though you don't get the MPs you get with Monarchy, you get a lot more gold, which gives you more flexibility with the luxury slider.
If we were a religious civ, I'd say go with Monarchy... but as painful as government switches are here, Republic can carry us into the Industrial Age, if need be...(If we need to continue warmongering, and can't switch to Democracy...)
Warmongering is quite possible in Republic. WW is not nearly as severe as Democracy. The key to strength in Republic is to have an efficient military. Obsolete units will hurt you badly.
Though you don't get the MPs you get with Monarchy, you get a lot more gold, which gives you more flexibility with the luxury slider.
If we were a religious civ, I'd say go with Monarchy... but as painful as government switches are here, Republic can carry us into the Industrial Age, if need be...(If we need to continue warmongering, and can't switch to Democracy...)
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
My post 2 above was an error. It was meant for my grs1 game Please ignor.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@ Barbslinger: Well in that case, I suppose my last post was in error too! 
I wonder if our CNO is out circumnavigating the globe, to bring us a new map, and contact with whoever pasted the pasty Lizzy a good one...
I wonder if our CNO is out circumnavigating the globe, to bring us a new map, and contact with whoever pasted the pasty Lizzy a good one...
Barbarians, again!
450AD
Nothing to do in way of city management.
Abu lands a chariot and a archer at Baghdad. It is undefended!!
Egyotian sword ventures out of Avaris
T1 460
Moving into position at Basra
Baghdad falls to Arabs
T2 470
Bugsy's Bomber is lost at Basra. Veteranl egion is lost at Basra to regular spear. Elite AC kills spear, no baton. Uber spear kills a vet legion and an elite AC.
T3 480
Twenty-six Scythian horsemen appear in NE. AC's take cover in hills. Seven barbs kill 1 AC, and 1 AC promotes.
Elite archer attacks uber spear at Basra and Basra Bows are formed and Maximus appears. Basra is ours. Maximus starts east
Vet AC hits Baghdad and slays charioteer. Second vet AC strikes and the city is ours again. Abu is exiled to a galley east of Baghdad. Sign a peace traty and accept tribute of two workers and 100g.
Americans start Bach's
T4 490
Manuever AC eastward to protect Londinium.
Land settler and spear on NE coast.
Kill Scythian horseman, only 18 healthy ones left, and one warrior
Two Scythian galleys attack ours and are galley is now elite
T5 500
Settler and spear climb back into boat. AC's head for cover.
Barbs attack two AC's on hill, promote both to elite, 4 barbs die
T6 510
Hippo Regius and Londinium both riot.
Maneuvering AC's in NE
There are sixteen Sarmatian horsemen in hills north of Londinium
T7 520
Attempt another suicide mission to the other continent
Galley sinks
T8 530
T9 540
Discover Abu has two little villes in the far northeast
Abe completes Leonardo's
T10 150
AC's at Ludunum and Gordiun head out for barb hunt.
Maximus, a GL, is on his way to the NE. We can found a new town and move the palace right away if anybody thinks its worth the candle, or we can keep him for a Cavalry army. Now that I think about it, there is an empty armny at Rome. Fill it with AC's and go kill a few barbs. VIctory against the barbs gets us the Heroic Epic (IIRC) and you can use Maximus to build it.
We won't be seeing any other contacts until Astronomy, but by then we can really roll on research (trading and experimenting).
On settlement plans: Once we are past the jungle choke we can start spreading out. I built a little tight up there, but every city has coastal tiles to work and there are food bonuses so Ravenna and Gordiun, at least can grow to a good size and be excellent commerce generators.
Research: We are converting gold to research at better than 90% with all the libraries. I'm researching Engineeering, due in 3 IIRC, in hopes of trading it to Cleo for Monotheism so we can run the upper track and get to Education (Universities), and Banking. Now that I think on it I should have researched Engineering before Fuedalism (Legions have better attack than pikes and better defense than MDI and are cheaper than either). I forget if SunT is still available. If it is (though Abe has probably built it)one could use the Leader to put shields in the box for SunT, probably at Rome or maybe Veii.
We are well on the way to trip to Alpha Centauri. Yes, Abe is ahead in tech but that is the result of early contact. IMHO we are building the infrastructure that will carry the day and in Communism will definitely have the economy (Somewhere I have a screenshot from RBC39 showing thirty cities with 0 corruption and only 1 or 2 wasted shields in each.) When we make some more contacts we can start fomenting wars against Abe to slow him down a little while we push the envelope.
Order of go:
barbslinger
Cuivienen-skipped
Bede-frustrated by barbarians
scoutsout-up
Sir Bugsy-on deck
Have fun scout! Kill a barb or twenty!
450AD
Nothing to do in way of city management.
Abu lands a chariot and a archer at Baghdad. It is undefended!!
Egyotian sword ventures out of Avaris
T1 460
Moving into position at Basra
Baghdad falls to Arabs
T2 470
Bugsy's Bomber is lost at Basra. Veteranl egion is lost at Basra to regular spear. Elite AC kills spear, no baton. Uber spear kills a vet legion and an elite AC.
T3 480
Twenty-six Scythian horsemen appear in NE. AC's take cover in hills. Seven barbs kill 1 AC, and 1 AC promotes.
Elite archer attacks uber spear at Basra and Basra Bows are formed and Maximus appears. Basra is ours. Maximus starts east
Vet AC hits Baghdad and slays charioteer. Second vet AC strikes and the city is ours again. Abu is exiled to a galley east of Baghdad. Sign a peace traty and accept tribute of two workers and 100g.
Americans start Bach's
T4 490
Manuever AC eastward to protect Londinium.
Land settler and spear on NE coast.
Kill Scythian horseman, only 18 healthy ones left, and one warrior
Two Scythian galleys attack ours and are galley is now elite
T5 500
Settler and spear climb back into boat. AC's head for cover.
Barbs attack two AC's on hill, promote both to elite, 4 barbs die
T6 510
Hippo Regius and Londinium both riot.
Maneuvering AC's in NE
There are sixteen Sarmatian horsemen in hills north of Londinium
T7 520
Attempt another suicide mission to the other continent
Galley sinks
T8 530
T9 540
Discover Abu has two little villes in the far northeast
Abe completes Leonardo's
T10 150
AC's at Ludunum and Gordiun head out for barb hunt.
Maximus, a GL, is on his way to the NE. We can found a new town and move the palace right away if anybody thinks its worth the candle, or we can keep him for a Cavalry army. Now that I think about it, there is an empty armny at Rome. Fill it with AC's and go kill a few barbs. VIctory against the barbs gets us the Heroic Epic (IIRC) and you can use Maximus to build it.
We won't be seeing any other contacts until Astronomy, but by then we can really roll on research (trading and experimenting).
On settlement plans: Once we are past the jungle choke we can start spreading out. I built a little tight up there, but every city has coastal tiles to work and there are food bonuses so Ravenna and Gordiun, at least can grow to a good size and be excellent commerce generators.
Research: We are converting gold to research at better than 90% with all the libraries. I'm researching Engineeering, due in 3 IIRC, in hopes of trading it to Cleo for Monotheism so we can run the upper track and get to Education (Universities), and Banking. Now that I think on it I should have researched Engineering before Fuedalism (Legions have better attack than pikes and better defense than MDI and are cheaper than either). I forget if SunT is still available. If it is (though Abe has probably built it)one could use the Leader to put shields in the box for SunT, probably at Rome or maybe Veii.
We are well on the way to trip to Alpha Centauri. Yes, Abe is ahead in tech but that is the result of early contact. IMHO we are building the infrastructure that will carry the day and in Communism will definitely have the economy (Somewhere I have a screenshot from RBC39 showing thirty cities with 0 corruption and only 1 or 2 wasted shields in each.) When we make some more contacts we can start fomenting wars against Abe to slow him down a little while we push the envelope.
Order of go:
barbslinger
Cuivienen-skipped
Bede-frustrated by barbarians
scoutsout-up
Sir Bugsy-on deck
Have fun scout! Kill a barb or twenty!
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
I don't know about victory over barbs and whether that lets us build Heroic Epic or not...but it's beside the point. Something to consider: In C3C, an Army moves like Cavalry. Doesn't matter what you stick in it, it could be stuffed with spearmen and they'll move like cav. My $0.02, stuff the army with Legionnaires, and we'll have a barb killing machine. Such an army could keep up with the AC, and defend said AC fairly well.
Although naming three ACs "Knight who say's 'Ni!'" and stuffing them into an army would be kind of cute...
I think 2 or 3 Legions in an Army will be useful for some time yet. I don't think we need to rush the Heroic Epic... as a matter of fact, I wonder if we ought to save it as a pre-build for something... Save the leader for a really expensive small wonder, like a palace or something... I really do think we should consider a palace move if we get the other end of this continent settled...
My $0.02.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Well...we can wait to get some proper knights for the "ni" trick... 
I think I'll spend my turns trying to get some land settled... Once our empire starts to take shape we'll have a better idea of what to do with the leader... so I suspect he'll still be around at the end of my turns. I'm not sure if I'll use galleys or what, with all the barb galleys around. It seems like barbs get a combat bonus against us at this level, so 2-3 galleys could pose a bit of a hazard. I may pump a few workers out of our high-food cities... after all, what would Rome be without roads?
I'll probably play my turns this evening, and check the thread again for ideas/suggestions before I play.
I think I'll spend my turns trying to get some land settled... Once our empire starts to take shape we'll have a better idea of what to do with the leader... so I suspect he'll still be around at the end of my turns. I'm not sure if I'll use galleys or what, with all the barb galleys around. It seems like barbs get a combat bonus against us at this level, so 2-3 galleys could pose a bit of a hazard. I may pump a few workers out of our high-food cities... after all, what would Rome be without roads?
I'll probably play my turns this evening, and check the thread again for ideas/suggestions before I play.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Okay... they move like knights then...
Seriously, thanks for the clarification Qarus. 
I think for our purposes, an Army of Legions will do nicely (i.e., they'll keep up with and protect the Ancient Cav). I first came across this when moving a stack of Artillery covered by an Infantry Army. I hit the key on the number pad several times, thinking I would move each piece in turn... lo and behold, my infantry had outrun my artillery...
Having said all that... an Army of AC would move like cav...
What sayeth the senate? (I'm for Legions)
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
How much does HE improve our leader chances. On a regular civ it goes from 1 in 16 to 1 in 12. Since we start at 1 in 12, does it go to 1 in 9?
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@ Bede: Good reasoning - AC can't be upgraded, so it can't hurt to put them in the Army...
My desire for an army of Legions is not strong. I will try to get a couple of Legions up there for Barb control and worker protection though...
@ Bugsy: it might be as low as 1:8... Are you thinking it makes sense to rush the HE for a greater chance of another leader when we go to deliver the coup de grace against Abu?
I may wait until later this evening to let Barbslinger and Cuivienen weigh in on some of this...
My desire for an army of Legions is not strong. I will try to get a couple of Legions up there for Barb control and worker protection though...
@ Bugsy: it might be as low as 1:8... Are you thinking it makes sense to rush the HE for a greater chance of another leader when we go to deliver the coup de grace against Abu?
I may wait until later this evening to let Barbslinger and Cuivienen weigh in on some of this...
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
An army of legions would kick a$$.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
@ scout - That's exactly what I was thinking. If we can get the odds down to 1 in 8. That would be some seriously good odds.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
What kind of Army to build...
Bede: AC cannot be upgraded, make sense to put in Army.
Busgy: Legionaire Army would kick major Abu-patootey. (Not that we need much help kicking Abu-patootey these days...)
Scout: Legionnaire Army would protect healing ACs from Barbs, etc., and move as quickly as ACs. AC Army would move like Cavalry... which also sounds like fun!
What to do with Leader:
Rush palace in barbarian hinterlands? Rush Heroic Epic for more leaders in the future?
Scout's thoughts: Forget Army for now. Get veteran units to barb hinterlands for promotion, and then reserve for next Abu-whoopin'-party. Send ... 16 Elite something-or-others against Abu, we should get another leader...
I'm going to wait until later this evening for more feedback. Barring consensus, I'll just fight barbs and try to get some vet units promoted to elite.
Bede: AC cannot be upgraded, make sense to put in Army.
Busgy: Legionaire Army would kick major Abu-patootey. (Not that we need much help kicking Abu-patootey these days...)
Scout: Legionnaire Army would protect healing ACs from Barbs, etc., and move as quickly as ACs. AC Army would move like Cavalry... which also sounds like fun!
What to do with Leader:
Rush palace in barbarian hinterlands? Rush Heroic Epic for more leaders in the future?
Scout's thoughts: Forget Army for now. Get veteran units to barb hinterlands for promotion, and then reserve for next Abu-whoopin'-party. Send ... 16 Elite something-or-others against Abu, we should get another leader...
I'm going to wait until later this evening for more feedback. Barring consensus, I'll just fight barbs and try to get some vet units promoted to elite.
