Level up: Emperor & Immortal with 4 games

[elitetroops]

Hmm one reason that would make me not bulb maths here is that you have a landlocked start with a PHI leader that does not start with fishing. This makes the Engi bulb extremely sexy in this case. Can take out Joao, bulb Engi, roll over the map.

That would probably be more useful on deity. Here, I'd expect to get pretty far without Engineering. The Math bulb speeds up the HA rush to take out Joao. Joao provides elephants and you could go straight to construction to continue rolling over the map with elepults. And also for Engi bulb, even if first scientist bulbs math, it wouldn't be that hard to get a second in time for Engineering bulb, right? Or are you thinking bulb both machinery and Engineering?

But yeah, I know bulbing Math is not a very popular move, nor is it one I would regularly do either. There are many other options here as well.

 

[Fippy]

math bulbs can be stronger than full value bulbs later, agree with Elite
(didn't look at the game, just an overall opinion)

It's not so much different than the popular "build Eles or HAs then upgrade to Cuirs with merchant(s)" thingy, actually it's quiet similar.
Starting a Civ4 snowball cannot really be valued in numbers.

 

[Pedro78]

Yup I meant bulb both Engi and Machinery. If going for a HA rush you probably won't have big bpt to self-tech Machinery. Is the maths bulb THAT unpopular? I find it very useful in low commerce + lots of forests kind of environments. Now on Emp you can definitely roll over the map with Elephants+Cats, but the math bulb is far from required to take out Joao. Now if you bulb maths and go HAs all the way you can probably win the game with HAs alone here

math bulbs can be stronger than full value bulbs later, agree with Elite

Just read your post. But my advice against math bulb was "Emperor-minded". Ofc that doesn't really fit with the advice to bulb engi which is more deity-minded... These difficulty changes mess me up lol
(Oh and on deity I would have bulbed maths 99% here if going for HA rush -- so many forests)

 

[Gasp]

Oh and Elite's advice is great, takes a lot of time to analyze+write down all that stuff

yep, I'm very thankful for that.
And I appreciate that many people are very reactive and helpful here.

Oh, and a micro thing I forgot to mention. You've built a ton of roads, but not the one road that would help you the most... 1S or 1SE of Berlin would allow you to settle city #3 one turn earlier. Unfortunately it's just too late for that in the save.

Yes I realized this too late. I have to think better about roading...
Now it's too late and except if I need the Wheat online there's no other reason to road than to speed up units movement. I may want to road here anyway to speed up workers move to my future city south on Stone. Not sure it's a valuable use of workers' turn and roading the Marble may be better as it leads faster to Joao's territory.

I'm going to ignore that HAs rush without Math may be enough on Emperor and try to bulb it as it seems to be a strong option toward victory in this situation.

One thing I'm incertain about is my capacity to build up a stack of HAs fast enough. By when do you think I should have a decent stack of HAs ? (I guess 10 are enough for Joao).
This takes some management to whip at the best time. I read it's good to 2-pop-whip for unhappiness reasons, but considering HAs are cheap, 1-pop-whip is going to be a frequent option I guess. Is it ok to grow into unhappiness faster with 1-pop-whip or is there a general rule to follow ?

 

[elitetroops]

Absolutely no 1-popping in my opinion. a HA costs 50. A 2 pop whip+math chop is 90 . So any city that can work 4 can produce 2 HAs in 3 turns.

-T0 put 4 into HA1
-T1 2-pop whip HA1. Even if you after whip can work only 3, you still complete it with 17 overflow.
-T2 HA1 is out. Complete a chop and work minimum 3 to complete HA2.
-T3 HA2 is out, start over if you still need more. If you've been working more hammers, it might be that you at this point have enough to immediately complete HA3 with a chop as well. Have your forests prechopped, possibly even some roaded and prechopped (same roads that go towards opponent), then one worker can complete 2 chops on consecutive turns.

With 3 cities you should easily get 6 HAs in 3 turns like this. Just make sure your workers are in the correct positions to chop when needed. Depending on how many hammers the city is producing, they could also complete the chop 1 turn earlier (same turn you whip). You just want to make sure that you don't go above 100 hammers with whip+chop+invested hammers, since any overflow above 50 will be lost.

You can see how Maths really helps here. Without Maths, you'd need to work 7 hammers in a city to be able to get out 2 HAs in 3 turns, which probably is a bit difficult in all cities but your capital.

If you are fast enough to get those HAs out, 10 is overkill. Depending on how Joao settles and what city you take first, you could possibly declare a lot earlier. Let's say you go for Oporto first, then you can have visual on his city center from the desert hill. It's very possible he has only 1 archer there still, then I'd happily take it out when my first 2 HAs are in place and the rest are still moving towards the frontline. Then heal those while they wait for the rest to catch up and move on Lisbon. Lisbon is tougher without intel, but you can figure out some things by monitoring what he is doing. They have the most archers in capital right before they send out a settler. A settler usually takes 2 archers with them, then there is often only 1 or 2 left behind. So if it's been a long time since he settled the last city, there's a little risk he might have up to 4 archers.But that's very rare. In general 2 HAs/archer is very safe. I'd expect 6 HAs to be enough for Lisbon most of the time.

When you move from Oporto towards Lisbon, unless he has roads built and some Chariot in Lisbon, you should move everything out to 1SE of Lisbon. Leave Oporto unguarded and there's a good chance he sends units out of the city to recapture it. There's no better feeling than to see those archers walk out of a 40% city to flat land. This is basically always a good idea. As long as you carefully keep track of your surroundings and make sure you can get back to defend your captured cities before anyone can take them back, leave them empty to encourage units out of cities. In this case you'd probably have more HAs on the way towards the frontline that can move into the city if needed.

If he hooks up metals and especially if you know he has spears, then the numbers change a bit. But waiting for 10 before you declare is still overkill. Maybe if you decide to go for Lisbon first (could be a good idea as this is likely to be his most powerful unit pump), then get a stack of 8 to 3N1E of Oporto and when you declare move to 2E of Lisbon. In that position you are forking Lisbon and Oporto, so if it turns out he has only 2 archers in Lisbon, you can take both Lisbon and Oporto the next turn. HAs that are a bit too late to make it in with the main stack could advance immediately towards Oporto from the east, and it's very likely you can take both on the same turn.

Oh, and by the way, please stick with the combat line of promotions. Combat+shock if he has mainly metal units, only combat against archers. Forget about Flanking and don't be afraid to attack at low odds. I think you'll have time to build barracks in 3 cities before HBR is in. I would't bother with stables here. They are only worth it if you have a higher happy cap and can afford to do one extra whip while teching archery after HBR.

 

[Gasp]

Alright I played until T73, I hope it's not a too long turnset.
Currently slider is at 0% (2nd turn) before I have enough to research Currency.
Oh and last AI is Alexander. Didn't meet him yet but a glance at the relationship board told me that Victoria was the WE of Alexander. I guess they are close and maybe Alex is cut from the world by her.
And I don't care about stables, they are a waste of I think.

Spoiler T46 to T73 :

I didn't keep track of what I did every turn but I think it went ok (except maybe suboptimal use of workers).
So tech were Pottery (T48) > Writing (T54) > HBR (T69 or so) > Archery (T71 or so)
I bulbed Math 1T before I got Archery.
I have now 3 HA, will have 5 next turn. I forgot to build HA directly in Hamburg... that's why I have 3 instead of 4.

Spoiler Chopped a lot of forest as you can see :

Spoiler Statistics :

Spoiler The World :

Spoiler 3 archers in Opporto and they just settled a new city south :

I'm explaining the reinforcement in Opporto by the presence of a barbarian archer a few turns earlier (he died). Anyway I'll need 6 HA to attack there.

Joao has some crap city like Guimaraes and this new one south on the coast.

Spoiler Joao's land :

Gandhi is expanding fast and cutting me north. He has a settler going for that PH above marble and corn I wanted that spot!
No reason to be mad if he's building cities for me.

Finally I'm a bit skeptical about my chances to get the Mids here. I think it's a good situation for it I have a lot of and no ressources. But I still need to settle on the stone and build it before some AI. Probably Lisbon is going to be a good place to chop them out (unless Joao already cut that forest).

 

[Gasp]

Just to see how it goes I attacked Joao T76 with 7 HA and by T88 he is history or so I thought because he's not dead!!!
I would gladly replay these turns if you think it's better.

Otherwise it went like this:

Spoiler war :

Opporto was defended by 3. I took it the same turn I DoW losing 2 HA in the process.
Then I move to Lisbon. He didn't build road so I had to wait 1T. He buit a mine on this grassland tile but didn't road it neither. There i found 2 archers and 1 chariot. I had 5 HA and got unlucky because I lost 3 HAs in total included one at 98% against the remaining injured chariot. So I had to take it 1T later. He had 1 archer and the same Chariot.
Moved to Coimbra on the western coast defended by 2 archers. I took it the next turn with 4 HAs, losing no HA.
We continue to Guimaraes which is on a hill. Took me 2T to get it against 3 archers. There i lost 3 HAs.
Finally we reach Evora (his last founded city south) defended by 1 archer and destroyed it. T88

I kept Guimaraes not sure it was optimal:

Spoiler :

 

[elitetroops]

Hehe, I was about to say play to about Writing, then we can re-evaluate.

When I saw your t73 statistics, I made an own attempt to that turn (starting from your latest save) and here's what I've got:

Spoiler :

That's ten built HAs against your three. Seven of them in position to move on Lisbon from NE next turn, Lisbon estimated to fall t75. I got HBR t64 and Archery t66, not sure what took you so long... Math bulbed t68, same turn I wanted to do my first chop. HA builds were a bit slow, as I messed up in 3rd city and it was still at pop 2 when I got Archery. Also teched masonry btw. Not sure why, immediately to currency would have been better.

Good job taking him out, though. Seems you got there just in time if he hadn't roaded the mine yet. At this stage of the game every turn is extremely valuable. Hence it's really worth it to micro a bit more carefully on the way to HBR and when building the initial force. Attacking a few turns earlier can mean a massive difference. Not sure if it's worth it for you to play again. You are obviously in a strong position and haven't made any major screw-ups (though I'm a bit curious how come you haven't settled stone yet?).

The game becomes very different now. You don't have any massive HA army left, or? On the other hand it looks like you have huge amounts of land to expand into. Currency is needed. Maybe even run some scientists somewhere to get it faster? Then probably calendar, which should be of great help with happiness problems. The mids would really help there as well, if you still can get them. They aren't always built in the BCs on emperor, so there is still a chance. Especially with no big wonder whores around. At least in my game only Stonehenge was built by t73. With some better planning, Oracle currency while building those HAs would probably have been very doable. And there's another reason for playing slowly. If you set a goal 40 turns ahead and play to that, you are missing a lot of opportunities that present themselves along the way. The more often you stop to re-evaluate your options, the better.

 

[Gasp]

Ok this is a huge difference. You'll also take Joao out before he settles another city north of the jungle. Which will save you a lot of time to move to the next target. I don't have many HA left something like 7 max. So it's a completely different game in comparison to yours.
I want to understand what went wrong for me so I'm going to replay from T46 and note here everything I do just because it helps focusing on the game.
I suspect one mistake I made was to whip a Barracks in Berlin (not sure if I did it though). But it would explain the extra I had. Hence less BPT to research.
Another one as I mention was to forget to prepare HA in Hamburg. That's 2 less than I should have.
Finally I believe training to get these units out like you will be good learning.
Did you build a Library in Hamburg before HA ? I didn't build one and Gandhi's culture took 1 hamlet and 1 cottage there.
And Masonry before Currency is not the best because we don't need it before that stone city is settled.

 

[elitetroops]

Yeah, I only whipped Berlin once before HAs. 3 pop whipped the library one turn after Writing was in.

I think the difference started immediately t46. After reviewing my options, I sent the 2 free workers to the tile I was about to settle next turn, and settler to the worker roading the floodplain NE of that tile. Revolt to slavery same turn. Next turn complete FP road and 2 workers road city tile, which allows to settle Munich immediately. The extra commerce from this city gives Pottery one turn earlier, allows to start on cottages and granaries one turn earlier and so on.

Hamburg 2-popped the granary at pop 4. Work max food to get there quickly. After that it built a worker. I farmed a grassland over there which I worked in addition to cow and rice. Gives extra commerce in comparison to forest. Didn't build any cottages here. If your happy cap is 4 and you use whips to build stuff, then 3 improved tiles is enough.

Before farming Hamburg I built a few cottages around Berlin and Munich. Have all 3 workers work together to get them up faster. Berlin and Munich were constantly shifting tiles back and forth. In Berlin my aim was to complete granary in time for Writing, while just growing to pop 6 at the same time so that I can 3 pop the library and grow back to pop 4 asap. After that, the goal was to create a GS, complete barracks and not grow into unhappiness by the time HBR and Archery was done. And of course all the time work as many cottages as possible between Berlin and Munich.

If I recall correctly, Munich got wheat for a few turns immediately after it was founded, to grow to pop 2 faster. My mistake was to 2 pop the granary in Munich. For the sake of the HA attack, I think it would have been better to ignore granary for now, just build barracks and then the first whip would be a 2 pop HA whip. They only really need to whip once for HAs anyway, can get up the granary later.

Another thing I messed up was connecting international trade routes. I opened borders with Gandhi, but that doesn't open up trade routes until we are connected to his city. I think there should be time to build this road, especially if you build an extra worker in Hamburg. It could be done before the forests around Hamburg are prechopped.

Hamburg also put some hammers into settler at some point. Actually, on t72 I had the choice to put overflow into HA for the 10th HA, or I could have used that overflow to complete a settler for stone. If it had been my own game, I would have put them into the settler. Now I only built the HA to compare army size.

Oh, and of course slider to 0% when you reach writing, until library in cap is up. I should mention that, since techs are researched at end of turns, the dates I mentioned for teching HBR and archery are the ones when slider would say 1t remaining during the turn.

 

[Gasp]

I see!!! thanks a lot for the explanation!
Good point for me is that I was thinking about roading Munich's tile too. Pottery 1T before makes a big difference for granaries but also workers management.
For Gandhi I was not about to OB because I wanted to keep clean relationship with Peter and Ragnar but I guess traderoutes are more imporant than a -1 diplo here.
i didn't think about building an extra worker neither and that's also a mistake.
So I'll replay this when I have more time and keep you posted

 

[elitetroops]

You don't get any negative diplo for opening borders with worst enemy. The reason people sometimes don't open borders for diplo reasons is that the other AI might ask you to stop trading with their worst enemy, and if you refuse you get -1 diplo. On the other hand, if you agree to stop trading with someone, that other one will refuse to talk for a very long time, which kind of sucks if you really want to trade techs or something. In this case, all you know is that Peter and Ragnar are somewhere far away behind Gandhi and Vicky. I wouldn't worry about them and happily open borders. Once you have Alpha, you can look into possibilities o keep all those warmongers busy. Peter and Alex are about the easiest AI to bribe into wars. Ragnar isn't too hard to persuade either. All three can be bribed at cautious. Alex and Peter against targets they are pleased towards, Ragnar against cautious or lower. Maybe those 3 could fight each other, while you gobble up the rest of the world and tech some superior units?

 

[Gasp]

I see you have everything planned already @elitetroops

So I played till T67 (the beginning of this turn more precisely).
This time I achieved the same results as you did in terms of research at least because I didn't start building HAs yet. But my planning tells me I'm going to have the same amount of HAs by T73

Spoiler A general picture of my land first :

Spoiler Here is my writing of these turns. I won't be mad if no one read at all (it's dense) :

T46
Move both lazy workers to Munich’s future location (will road)
Move fog busters
Hamburg works a grassland instead of forest
Switch to Slavery
T47
Settle Munich. It starts on a Barracks and works the Wheat
T48
Research set to Writing
All 3 workers cottage 1NE of Munich
Berlin & Hamburg build a Granary
Berlin works more to complete a Granary the turn Writing is done
T49
1 worker moves NE to cottage
T50
1 other worker follow to complete cottage next turn
last worker moves E of Berlin (will cottage)
T51
Hamburg 2 pop whip a Granary (4 > 2)
Berlin now works Wheat and Munich a cottage
Another worker E of Berlin to complete cottage
T52
1 worker moves to Hamburg (will farm a grassland)
Berlin & Munich switch tiles for Munich to grow faster
T53
Hamburg worker farms
Writing done end of the turn
T54
Research set to HBR (14T)
2 workers will cottage 1N2E of Munich
Berlin starts on a Library (9 this turn)
Hamburg starts of a Worker at size 3 (6T)
Slider to 0%
T55
Berlin 3-pop whip a Library (6 > 3)
Switch tiles between Berlin and Munich again
T56
Berlin completes a Barracks while growing to size 4
Move 1 worker NE of Hamburg to road into Gandhi
OB with Gandhi
Slider back to 100%
Munich is size 3
T57
Munich works 2 cottages and a 2 forest to complete Barracks earlier (12T) and will grow to happy cap (size 4) in 8T
One worker in Hamburg starts to road.

—

And there I stop because I’m not sure what to do with my last lazy worker: it’s 2E1N of Munich. It could:
a) road the Wheat (not really necessary is it?)
b) move in a forest to road and pre-chop (better option I think)
If I choose b) I have 3 tiles that I need to road in priority: W, 2W1S and 2S1W of Berlin. These roads will make my units move faster toward Joao and allow me to chop faster.

Workers in Hamburg.
One does a road and will continue to road the Wine then forest into Gandhi. I prefer the Wine because it’s 1T faster than a FP to road.
The other worker (farmer) will be free next turn and I don’t think I need him here because there are only 2 forest tiles to chop and another worker comes in 3T. So I’ll move it 1NW of Munich to road and pre-chop. New worker will pre-chop forest E of Hamburg (had 1T pre-chop already) then move south of Munich there I’ll pre-chop and road (either 1S or 1SW probably the latter or both?).

I’ll need more pre-chop in Berlin and a road NW to Joao as well so I’m thinking 1E of Horses too. Then continue roading in diagonal? (won’t have time).

It sounds good to me. I could make this happen before Archery (could be tight).

Berlin grows size 4 next turn and will work 2 GS. 4 is happy cap for 8T so it’ll grow slow or stagnate depending on what’s best.

—
End of interlude
-

Lazy worker goes 1W of Berlin
End of T57
T58
Pre-chop 1W of Berlin
Send worker 1NW of Munich
Berlin works 2 cottages and 2 GS (stagnation happy cap is 4 for 7T)
T59
Worker roads wine in Gandhi’s
2nd turn of pre-chop
T60
1st pre-chop in Munich
Road 1W of Berlin
Hamburg’s worker is out goes 1W to pre-chop
Hamburg work on a Barracks
T61
Worker road 1SW of Delhi
2nd pre chop in Munich
T62
Worker near Hamburg goes SW of Munich (will chop)
Worker road NW of Munich
Worker 1W of Horses (pre-chop)
T63
Hindu spread to Hamburg
Trade route with Gandhi done will be effective next turn. He will trade Pigs but I don’t care.
T64
Hamburg completed a Barracks works on a Settler to avoid growing into unhappiness
Worker in Gandhi’s moves 1E of Hamburg to pre-chop
Pre-chop starts SW of Munich
2nd turn of pre-chop 1W of Horses
HBR researched
T65
Both workers W of Berlin road
Worker SW of Munich pre-chop
Research set to Archery (2T) I’ll be 1 short…
Wait… why isn’t Munich having a trade route with Gandhi’s city ? This dude didn’t road to all his cities I guess.
Munich is also working a FP… i forgot 1 cottage there. it’ll work a 2 forest to end a Barracks in 3T (that’s 1T later than Archery most likely).
T66
Set slider to 40% to end Archery this turn
2nd pre chop 1E of Hamburg
Worker 1SW of Munich 1T of road

Spoiler Here is my T67 and planning for HAs production from T67 :

T67
Francis Bacon (a delicious GS ) born and bulb Math
Hamburg switch to a HA (works 4 ) will grow next T.
Worker there rest 1T in the forest to chop later
Munich has 49/50 into a Barracks. Do I want to whip it for 30 OFH ? Nah don’t think so. Munich works 2 cottages and 2 forest so I put 5 into it and 2-pop-whip a HA next turn.
Worker SW of Munich ends road
Berlin completed a Barracks and does a HA. It now works Wheat, Horses, a farm and 1 cottage (that’s 7 and growth in a bit more than 2T (so 3T)). I can do 2 chops this turn here (that’s 67 total). It’ll finish a HA with 17 OFH and get 2-pop-whip next turn.

Not sure this is optimal:
Munich will be at pop 2 and take some time to grow back to 3. Hamburg will be size 3 after whip that’s ok. Berlin size 2 after this 2-pop-whip and takes 1T to grow to 3. It seems not that bad?
How many HAs this sacrifice will produce?
T68 > 1 in Berlin
T69 > 3 (1 in each city)
T70 > 1 Berlin (w. 1 chop)
T71 > 2 (Munich & Hamburg)
T72 > 1 Berlin
T73 > 2 probably (Munich & Hamburg)
total: 10
Looks like I could do as many as elitetroops!

Spoiler here some perspectives for Oracle as you mentioned or the Mids :

I could also tech Masonry (3T from T67 but what’s the hurry.)
Oracle means Myst+Med+PH+Masonry= 12T of research. I need to turn off slider for 2 turns. That’s taking 15T minimum to research if no one as Alpha in between.
Could be chopped in Berlin: chop 3 forest left. Best case that’s taking 4T for 90 of chop and 4T working like 10 it’s another 40: enough to complete it.
Still this is far away. What did you have in mind ?
Now the Mids are consuming a lot more hammers. I want to build them really fast >> need many forest >> Lisbon ?
I could put some OFH into the Settler in Hamburg (he is 30/100 ) by T72. it will settle that Stone city (need roading there) And I need to road to Lisbon to share that Stone which should not be long if I road through Opporto.
Let's say Settler is out T74, settling stone 3T later. Roads + chop in Lisbon is going to be delayed if I'm using workers to chop the Oracle. But Mids are not going to be build that soon.
But I guess I have more chances to complete the Mids than the Oracle !

For the most important matter (WAR) I'm not sure if I did enough roads.

Spoiler :

Spoiler Here are some screens of my 3 cities :

Please people help elitetroops I fell like i abuse of his expertise

 

[Gasp]

Btw, just for fun I played some more turns (badly).
No more Joao T87 and I got the Oracle later and the Mids are on their way... A huge difference in comparison to before. Also Gandhi will fall if I build more HAs to attack him.
I don't save these it was just for fun.

 

[elitetroops]

Goog doing!

Now you can see how small adjustments, even if it's just a food extra here and an extra commerce there, very quickly add up to make a very big difference.

If there's still a chance to get the Oracle, then it's almost always worth considering. What is your long term goal for the game? Conquest? Space? (Diplo ?) If conquest, do you want to aim for it asap, or for example aim at improving your cuir beeline to finally roflstomp some backwards wannabe warmongers like Ragnar and Alex? Since you will quite quickly have a lot of cities, Oracle Currency is not bad. Depending on what your economic situation looks like, if you want to aim for Engineering rush, Oracle MC could also be possible. It's been a while since I've bulbed Engineering, but I think that would require that you go through Polyteism to PH, or you open up the Philo bulb. Going through Poly is also good if you for example want the Great Library, which wouldn't be all bad with PHI leader and marble.

Keep in mind when building the Oracle that it produces those ugly Prophet points. If possible, build it in a city you don't plan to use for producing lots of Great People. Doesn't need to be all chops either. Whip overflow is also very useful to build wonders.

 

[Gasp]

What is your long term goal for the game? Conquest? Space? (Diplo ?)

I think it's best if I can learn to end games quickly in the beginning and I'll learn some more later. Even if Cuirs can be an early unit.

So for now I'd like to try to finish off Joao and still be in a good position economically and if possible have many HAs left.
I believe Oracle and Mids are possible to achieve after Joao's death. Oracle would go in any city with 3 forest to complete it ASAP. The Mids I'd like to build it in Lisbon because it has a lot of forest I'll have to chop anyway.
At the same time i need to plan my attack on Gandhi. He'll have metals but won't make many units so I guess it'd be possible to attack him with HAs, even if this means I'll only take his main cities ?
I should be able to slow build some HAs in both Hamburg and Berlin while at war no ? Could these 3-4 extra HAs be enough to get rid of Gandhi ?
I'll play later today and post here war against Joao's turnset.

 

[elitetroops]

If goal is fast conquest, then for sure take out Gandhi with HAs. Shouldn't be a problem HAs are doing a fine job until longbows are around.

Haven't seen any of your warfare, so it's hard to tell how well you are doing, but HAs benefit greatly from some more strategic planning. Things like forking cities is quite basic, should usually be done if possible. If you are only threatening one city, then it's usually better to spread out your units instead of moving them all in one stack. When you split them up on several tiles, you are threatening more tiles, which opens up more opportunities to take out his units in the open. They like to shuffle archers around, for example. And there are of course also workers to capture. They usually withdraw their workers so that you can't capture them directly, but once you take a city and their culture disappears, there might be plenty of opportunities to grab workers.

If they have spears, they can usually be lured out of the city. They won't attack a big stack, but they will attack a single HA. Sacrifice a HA on flat land to lure them out, then take them out next turn. Flat land is important, and also make sure they can't just attack you and move back into the city the same turn using roads. If you can get a shock HA in position so that the spear attacks you across a river, it isn't even as much of a sacrifice, since you have pretty even odds, depending on the amount of Combat promos on each.

And most importantly, always be ready to take advantage when the AI does something stupid. The AI likes to do stupid things, and a lot of them. This is why I always keep constantly pushing towards the next city. Even if I don't think I have enough healthy units yet to take it, I still head towards it with whatever I have. You'd be surprised how often the AI does something incomprehensible that allows you to take their cities earlier than you should have been able to. At best I've seen an AI move half his garrison into a galley when my stack was standing at the city gates.

Finally, the biggest advantage of mounted combat is speed, so make sure you keep it up. This might mean building more HAs for a while still. Not just slow build, chopping and whipping as well, where appropriate. With enough HAs, you should be able to steamroll Gandhi and probably also Victoria. Taking that many cities early does become quite heavy for the economy, so you need some plan for how to keep that going. The plan would have to consider how far you are planning to tech. With a start this strong, Eningeering and/or Guilds should be enough, I think. Probably bulb Engineering, so make sure you don't block that one!

 

[Gumbolt]

You can't go wrong with Elite's advice. He is very much into his micro and common sense approach to civ 4.

Gandhi is always a good target. Looks like he may have copper north of him. Try and scout him out with an HA before you declare. Don't be afraid to use JoaII's forest to chop out more HA here. Keep whipping too and timing whips so you have under 20 hammers in HA.

Not sure where Ragnar is. He is like a bull in a china town. If you get a chance to gift some of the Ai resources this will help with happiness.

Espionage? Probably better to focus this all on someone? Not Indians as you plan to wipe them out?

Ivory is good for happiness. Alphabet maybe to trade techs with AI? Not sure how slow they are on emperor level. Alphabet could help bribe other Ai into war too.

Overall on pangea maps I just keep the war engine rolling. HA in large numbers can be pretty lethal. You will need currency and maybe monarchy for happiness at some point. Managing the economy can be just as important. Having 10-15 cities is never a bad thing. Once empire grows i focus capital on growth/cottages.

Trade routes. Attacking Delhi will lose your only foreign trade route? Hopefully get these again with English. Make sure to look out to see what Ragnar is doing!

Looks like you have not found Alexander yet. He is worst enemy of Ragnar or diplo screen? He will be a warmonger.

 

[Gasp]

For once this topic have gone more far than my game
I didn't have time to play before and I played just a few turns here.

Spoiler To turn 75 :

T67 - end
both workers near Berlin pre-chop forest SW of Marble
Research set to Currency (slider at 0%)
Worker in Hamburg pass his turn

T68
Hamburg 2-pop whip HA with 18 OFH
Worker there chop 1 forest
Berlin 2-pop whip HA with 24 OFH
Worker Chop 2 forest for Berlin
Munich has built a Barracks starts on HA
Worker near Munich pass 1T

T69
OB with Peter
Munich 2-pop whip HA and gets 2 chops (100 )
I have 2 HA this turn they’ll move NE of Lisbon
I manage my cities to max growth
I don’t think I’ll be able to turn slider on before war

T70
Worker in Hamburg pass 1T (will chop next when Hamburg can 2-pop whip HAs)
Worker in Munich moves 1S of Munich to pre-chop
Worker moves 1N of Munich to pre chop
Worker 1N of Berlin to pre-chop
Have 3 HAs this turn (5 total)

T71
All worker start chopping
Hamburg 2-pop whip HA and gets 1 chop
Only 1 HA this turn (total 6)
City size are Berlin: 4 others size 2 (growth next turn)

T72
Hamburg finishes 1 HA (7 total) and starts on another 1
This HA moves E of Oporto (I have 6 for Lisbon should be enough)

T73
Berlin finishes 1 HA and will grow next turn. So I don’t chop here and I ‘ll 2-pop-whip next turn + 1 chop
Berlin’s worker pass 1T
Hamburg is size 3 and unhappy, it does another HA (will be whipped)
Munich gets 2 chop into a HA
1 worker starts to road Wheat
2 HAs this turn total 9 (well that’s 1 less than Elite but it’s ok )
I explain this difference by the Barracks delay in Munich.

T74
Joao has founded Evora (the Copper city) where I wanted to do it so I’ll let it grow to size 2 before I take it.

Spoiler Evora :

Hamburg and Berlin 2-pop whip HAs
Worker chop 1 forest for Berlin
Worker build a Mine 1N of Munich
Worker does a Cottage 1E of Munich
DoW on Joao I move my HAs in position and kill that Archer
T75
2 HAs done this turn
1 will be completed in Berlin next turn
I’m roading to Oporto

I find 4 Archers in Oporto (going to be hard to take this) and 3 In Lisbon.

Spoiler First attack :

I get lucky and kill all 3 Archers without a loss I can’t get his fleeing Settler so my 3 remaining HAs move to Oporto. I’ll have 7 HAs to take it next turn.

Spoiler My Lisbon :

I turn slider to 100% ??

I’m stoping here for some advice.
Should I research Currency now?
2 reasons why I’m not sure it’s good:
- It may take longer than expected with this war (so more cash)
- In case I’d want to « Oracle it » shouldn’t I rather focus on other tech like Masonry ?

Another trouble rising is unhappiness. I don't know if there's something I could do to help?

 

[Gumbolt]

Happiness is a big issue here. Ivory will help but that could be 15-20 turns away as it needs a border pop. Whip a monument? It would take longer to chop out a library. Monarchy or religion seem good options for happiness. Albeit switching religions is one of the best ways to upset AI. Especially Vikings.

You could make a late play on oracle? Pre chop 2-3 forest and prepare marble now. Downside is it will take 9 turns. If ai beat you to Oracle no big loss as you save chops till final turn. Either way Monarchy will really help you here happiness wise. Alternative is alphabet and trade for techs. Currency does nothing for happiness.

Settle on stone and build mids? Too late? Too much road needed to make Lisbon work.

I don't like fact you have declared on JoaII 3 times. You worker stole twice early on. Probably the reason you are now facing 3-4 archers in each city. I think 9 HA was too few given your worker stealing antics here. The Ai had built extra archers here. With 7 HA outside his city he will whip a 5th archer. You will need some more RNG luck. See how 1st/2nd combat go. Albeit HA should be 66% odds. Forest will have slowed any attack here. Guess you had no choice as sooner or later JoaII would of declared on you

The plus on attacking India would of been less forest and flood plains for a cottage capital. Downside being lack of happiness.

I wonder if right strategy here was to go for mids first. That or Oracle and play for monarchy. Then go war mode.

I think Oracle now seems risk free. Myst for culture is likely needed here anyway. AI and tech timing on emperor is a lottery.