Level up: Emperor & Immortal with 4 games

Nice! You're in a really good position there, nothing to worry about! :thumbsup:

You've captured 10 cities and lost 17 HA in the process. Losing 1.7/city is not that bad, but there's still room for improvement. I usually expect something in the 1.2-1.5 range. Checking some old emperor/normal speed pure HA game I played, it was 36 HAs lost taking 28 cities, or just under 1.3. This is again about small differences that add up over the course of the game. If you had avoided one loss on every third city you've taken, your army would be 40% larger right now. Losses are avoided by improving strategy, mostly to speed up the attacks. Effective healing is one important part, as well as learning how to get their units out of the cities.

Peter still has the 150 gold he presumably got as failgold from pyramids. He would give you those AND attack Vicky for calendar. I think I'd prefer to just give him calendar for 150 gold though. No point putting him in war mode to build units. Don't give him HBR, he has elephants and construction.

Since you are still building HAs, this must mean you are planning to use them. Vicky looks like a prime target, especially as whatever stack she has is busy fighting Ragnar. She has HAs though, one about to head into the jungle to the north of you. Must be careful about this when you declare. Maybe upgrade the warrior outside Guima to a spear? Varanasi could put one turn hammers into spear once it is out of revolt, so that it can immediately whip it if the HA shows up there.

Worker outside Guimaraes is chopping a jungle on a tile that won't be worked in a long time. With border pop coming in 3 turns, it should be roading to dye, or chopping jungle off dye.

It's looking more and more like you are aiming for a very early military victory. For that, I think Construction would be the next tech you want. Possibly only tech you still want. Also depends on what scouting reveals and if the goal is domination or conquest. Domination might be easy here, if the jungle to the north is uncontested. Take out Vicky and one more, then spam a big bunch of settlers to simultaneously settle all of the jungle. Watch your empire go into strike as you pop borders and win. Requires CoL to run artists in new cities. On the other hand, taking out 2 more AI shouldn't require construction. Conquest requires you fight all AI. This might be tougher, as the last ones are quite heavy unit spammers. Ragnar in a war right now makes it even worse. For this I'd like to have catapults. HAs against large stacks is not quite ideal.

A bit OT (sorry) but I'm curious.. @elitetroops why don't you ever play on deity? I'm pretty sure you would win most games with this level of thinking.
I think it just boils down to the fact that I've always enjoyed immortal more. I play civ to relax and don't want to be constantly on the edge to avoid losing the game. It is a very long time since I last played a "normal" deity game though. Maybe the experience would be very different now, as I do know I've improved a lot since the last time.
 
Yep situation is really good. I was not expecting to be in such a strong position that early in the game.
I'm not sure I could have done better with my HAs. I got pretty lucky overall except during the fight of Varanasi where I suffered. It's a first for me though so I'll probably realize soon how I can improve this ratio.

Not sure I need to choose a victory type at the moment. Getting Vicky's land is most likely going to be an easy task again. If so I could attack Peter and his 4 cities after that. With some luck I'll get Ragnar to Pleased and could avoid another fight for victory.

I didn't meet Alex yet, I'm surprised. I bet he's not happy with Vicky so I could have him to join the war if this mean getting good diplo bonus with him. Because if the game is won already I don't want these guys to DOW on me.

So the plan now is to build a few more units both HAs and spears because I'm not sure where Vicky's HA are and I have a big number of unprotected cities. Or am I wasting hammers in building defensive / garrison units ?
I'll research Construction when I can and probably CoL too (CoL received a lot of :science: while running 0% slider).
Some HAs near Vicky are immediately going to scout her territory so we know how many more I have to build before I declare.
 
Or am I wasting hammers in building defensive / garrison units ?
This is usually a waste, yes. She has that one exploring HA which might surprise you somewhere. It's better to be prepared to react quickly when she does so, instead of prematurely build defenses against that potential attack everywhere. Some hammers into spears in your border cities so that they can immediately whip if necessary, that should be enough. Whipped units come out end of turn, before the AI gets their next move. As long as you are building HAs, you'll also have fresh HAs roaming around in your lands, which can react to any threat she presents.
 
Played a little bit further until I believe it's time to declare on Vicky.
I did what you said elite and did only 1T of a spear everywhere it's necessary.
I didn't build units as fast as I could I think but I don't think I need more.
Spoiler to T107 :

T101 end
I send 2 HAs to scout Vicky she has 2 Archers per city so far. London is on flat land but Nottingham on a PH.
Move my new units to Delhi.

T102
We meet Alexander finally. He is not an original, like everyone he's the WE of Victoria!
Some more scouting
Whipping HAs here and there

T103
I do a scout in Hamburg with HAs overflow for another super medic.
Make my border city work 1T on a spear
Do some micro to improve growth where I can
I have Silk this turn that's another +1:)
Get Peter's :gold: for Calendar
Vicky is building spears and swords so I guess she had no army before Ragnar declared. on the other hand I could pillage her only metal (I think) the turn after I declare.
Have 11 HA now
Have 10 workers that's not enough I'll have to think where to build some

T104
Delhi whip a Granary
I move my workers toward ex-Indian land

T105
Hamburg whip a HA
Vijaya whip a Barracks
Victoria is pilling up units in London, as soon as they move it could be my time to declare
Get 50 :gold: from Ragnar against Poly

T106
There's a barb archer near Vanarasi good thing it's only 2T away from Delhi!
I build Barracks in Cologne Coimbra Bombay and Vanarasi
Build more cottages around Munich

T107
Munich whip a HA
I get Construction end of this turn and Peter is willing to trade it now... too late
Vicky has construction too now
Not sure when but Vicky is left with only 3 cities she moved out of London her stack. Too bad some of my HAs are far away.
I have 15 HAs I don't see why I should not attack.
Taking a break now.
Spoiler Here is Vicky's land and 3 cities left I want it!! :
Capture d’écran 2017-10-25 à 11.00.49 1.png

Note: I'm less exhaustive in writing down all my actions because it's a lot of workers move and some check up on what my citizens do.
 

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  • fred T107 BC-0200.CivBeyondSwordSave
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I have 15 HAs I don't see why I should not attack.
Because your army is not in a position to move in? You'd need construction to cross that river and move into English territory this turn. You could still buy it from Peter and move in this turn, but I don't think you are in a very good position for that. Exploring HAs are indeed too far away. And they are wounded. When a war is over and the next one is coming up, your number one priority should be to heal everything asap. If exploring is needed, use healthy HAs for that. When the war starts, your scouting HAs should ideally be in a position from where they would teleport to somewhere you want them. Also, with even 0.5 MP left, they can teleport and move back in on the same turn. For example HA south of London could move in to threaten London still this turn, if it had any MP left. Unfortunately it doesn't.

Your best offensive units aren't even with your main stack. The only C3 HA is off somewhere to fight a barb archer and a 10xp HA that could be C2+shock is guarding Vija. Use weaker units for random tasks like that and keep the strongest with the main stack.

Forgot to mention the segond GG in last post. Extra super medic is sometimes good, but mainly if you're fighting in many different directions. Here your war is very focused and it would have been better to use it to deal out XP to a bunch of units. I see at least 9 HAs that would get one more promotion from 2 XP, I would have spread the XP over those.
 
It was not my intention to attack this turn nor the next one probably. I wasn't precise enough here!
Of course I plan to move my army in position and heal before I declare. Well I'm a bit stuck with promoted units I used for a wrong purpose but it should not be a big problem to move them on time.
And that GG would indeed have been better used on my stack (this is not something I usually consider doing with GG).
So the plan is to get most of my army (probably not those 2 HAs in Ragnar's and Peter's lands) in position to take London 1T after. So 1S of Pigs is a better position to move in I think. In 4 turns I should be ready and hopefully have some extra new built units to help.

First I take London then I believe I'll have to decide according to how many units each city has for defense.
Nottingham with 20% defense will have an extra unit (hopefully not a spear) and is on a hill. I could take it right after London. But if I pillage the Iron tile it won't have many :hammers: to produce extra units. I'll see a max of 5 units there.
York on the other hand has 50% defense and 3 units including a spear (I know from previous turn of scouting there). It has the Horse necessary for her HA production. A HA from there can threaten London. Units that are hoping to take back any city to Ragnar could retreat into York for defense.
Conclusion Nottingham seems safer but I cannot decide and we'll see :D
 
This turnset is preparation to war and war against Vicky!

Spoiler :
T107 - End
Move some HA closer to London

T108
Research set to CoL - slider at 0%
A few whips this turn: Delhi for a Barracks, Berlin and Vija for HAs
Berlin is now size 7 and I think I should let it grow to size 10 and stop the whip there.
Peter has CoL
I could get 50 :gold: from Ragnar in exchange for Alpha but I don't really want to allow him to trade with Alex

T109
Whip a few other HAs and Barracks
I have 9 fresh HAs ready + 3 1W of Pigs + another 3 not far.
Spoiler War next turn I think :
bw.png


T110
DOW on Vicky
Spoiler :
110.png

1 spear, 1 HA and 2 Archers in London + 1 axe not far.
I move my stack in and split it in 2 +1 bait HA
Ragnar offers 60 :gold: for PH thanks dude!
Bait didn't work

T111
Vija whip a spear to defend against a HA at the border
Bombay 2-pop whip Barracks
I take London losing 5 HA in the process. That's a lot but I still have 18 out there
On her turn Vicky kills my 3 HAs near York and lose a spear (it was a stupid move to stay there)
Spoiler :
111.png

T112
I pillage Iron
Move my stack on Iron to attack York next turn
A catapult from Nottingham attacks my stack
Whip some HAs again
Spoiler :
112.png

T113
We take Nottingham with 2 loss and move to York killing all wandering units on the way
Whip some other HAs in 2 cities (I don't think I need more than this at the moment)
Do you see these 3 slaves? They could be mine if my HA stay alive.
Spoiler :
113.png

T114
This turn I start building catapults
Berlin works 2 GS. I'm going to replace that farm 1SE by a cottage soon.
Get 2 workers, 1 fled!
Move my army of handicapped HAs around York
Cologne will do a Library next turn and Delhi as well
Spoiler :
Capture d’écran 2017-10-25 à 16.55.09.png

End of turnset.

England is almost history.
I have to wait another turn before I attack York (2 Archers 1 Chariot) for more units and healing.

As I said I'm building Cats instead of HAs when a city is ready. Should I also build Elephants??
Or Shall I rather build some more commerce/research oriented buildings? If the slider remains at 0% I have to consider Markets as a good option in Berlin and Delhi at least.

PS: feel free to highlight any or all negative play I did that despite an imminent victory may be hidden to me.
 

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  • fred T114 BC-0025.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Just 5 cents for recovery phase :D
16 cities so city maintence should be big enough whatever distance is... and you are ORG!!!!, so with 2 chops or 2-pop whip only (correct if wrong) can complete Courthouses in most expensive cities and get you back into green.
Its funny but CH is better for pure "research slider up" situation as you get (save) money also when running 100% research. And Market now is 2.5 not 1.25 times more expensive.
 
Common sense is now key here.
Coimbra is building a catapult. How long will it take for this to reach front line? If you have to build a unit there go for HA. I would maybe switch to wealth.
Same for Lisbon. Build catapults in cities near front line. So switch to HA now.
Oporto could be running silk this turn. Less food but 4 commerce. Plus it still grows to S5.
Tempted to whip granary in Guimaries. Plenty of happiness here anyway. Cancel that worker building the mine. Chopping a forest instead for granary would of been better.
Delhi - new cottages at this point? Seem wasteful as we are planning end game here. Chop for units?
Bombay - farm at this stage seems poor. Only +1 food. Get chopping for units.
Hamburg. 1 turn into pult. Whip. OFlow completes Ha.
Your capital has enough cottages now. Especially if this game could be over in 20-30 turns.
Distant cities should grow to size 6. You will need to whip some settlers in due course.

If we are going in for the kill now lets not keep all this forest. Chop away as much as you can for pults and HA. Even at this stage mainly HA. HA will do really well against most units. 2-1 losses but at this stage it hardly matters as you will flood the Ai with units. Set distant cities with hammers to wealth. Food cities can whip. Don't whip capital too much. I always keep this for commerce.

12 workers and not a single one chopping forest for your armies.

Don't bother with courthouse here. Use capture gold and wealth to maintain gold. Also trade techs for gold when you can.

I think you may only need Russians and maybe 1 more AI then settle the empty land. Could be enough land with 2 Ai left. Which could mean you don't even need pults. See how the war goes. I would mainly use pults to suicide defences.
 
Without looking at the game, I would agree with Gumbolt. At this stage most of your workers should be chopping units. Cats and Elephants can be good near the frontline, HAs further back. A couple of axes to go with the phants as well, to counter spears. Some cities on wealth if absolutely necessary. Courthouses don't have any place in a fast military victory, because such games don't include any recovery phase.

Still don't know if you want conquest or domination here. If domination, then you need to figure out how much land is north of you and west of Peter. If that+Peter's land is enough, then you should be building settlers soon. If conquest, then just max units everywhere. Maybe go Police State? Do you really need the rep happiness still? Remember that PS also reduces war weariness by 50%. For conquest you really don't need anything but units. You don't need big cities and you don't need tech. The more units, the faster you conquer and the more conquest gold is coming in. PS and some heavy elepult whippage should end this quickly.

Keep in mind that razing cities is also an option, especially towards the end, if you are confident the AI won't have time to settle that land before they are dead. And remember that you can pillage stuff for gold. At least all cottages should be pillaged to the ground from now on. The game will be over so fast that you'll get more gold from pillaging them than they would have time to provide by being worked.

What's the tech situation here? Anyone got monarchy?
I move my stack in and split it in 2 +1 bait HA
Bait didn't work
Baits usually don't work if city is threatened by other units. Sorry if I was unclear about that. They are best used if you can send one in to bait while the rest are healing, then move in with the rest the next turn. Worker baits can sometimes work even if the city is threatened.
 
Courthouses don't have any place in a fast military victory, because such games don't include any recovery phase.
Oh, my bad... Nevermind.. that was just about Markets vs CH thing with ORG leader.. nothing to do with "kill..kill...kill" situation here :D
 
Domination seems easier to me and not as fun as war. Plus I never played a game like this one going at war very early and pretty much all the time.
Usually I would fear strike and try to recover a bit. Thus allowing AI to become more powerful.
In this game and with your comments I see clearly that there's no point in recovering because either way - conquest or domination - I don't need a recovery phase. Building wealth is probably enough if I need more :gold:

Also I'm impress to see how the AI is slow here. They barely have any army and are completely behind in tech. For my next game (yes I'll play another online game here) I'll pick a completely random one maybe to avoid Pangea and take any start to raise difficulty. I won't say it's easy with such a start because I'm sure that without your help I could not do this.

When I saw how many HAs I lost in the capture of London and that remaining AIs have more army I thought I'm never going to be very successful with HAs. You say the contrary. I trust your judgment ;) So close city will build Cats + Phants and others will go on building HAs. Wealth only when necessary. Prefer chop over whip when possible.

I agree on Police State it makes sense especially because my cities are happy and I don't need to research.

Who would you pick as the next target?
Spoiler Diplo screen :
Capture d’écran 2017-10-25 à 19.14.22 1.png

Peter is my choice. His land is very small but has room to expand, was never at war, is teching better than the other two. So it could potentially be annoying to take him out later if he gets better units. He's pleased with Ragnar and Alex but they are busy fighting each other so they won't help. If I kill him other AI won't have room to expand.
Alex could be a nice target as well.

Oh, my bad... Nevermind.. that was just about Markets vs CH thing with ORG leader.. nothing to do with "kill..kill...kill" situation here :D
I appreciate your input :D will be useful soon!
 
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Oooh you have phants now. Didn't notice that. Phants near front line is a good idea. Where a city has 6-7 strong defenders then bombardment is good. If a city has 2-3 defenders HA in numbers can take it down. Speed vs losses. Your power rating here is already way above the others.

All the Ai still need monarchy. HA/pults and phants should last for a good while longer here.

If you play another game I suggest immortal. I think the jungle and other factors limited the AI on this map.
 
When I saw how many HAs I lost in the capture of London and that remaining AIs have more army I thought I'm never going to be very successful with HAs. You say the contrary. I trust your judgment ;) So close city will build Cats + Phants and others will go on building HAs.
Yeah, HAs are not very good against big stacks. But not all cities have big stacks. Elepult can for sure finish this map, but it is slow. Best option is if you have elepults to take out the big well defended cities, then HAs can run around and take out the smaller lighter defended cities, snipe units out in the open and so on. HAs can of course also help the elepult stack. Once you've hit a city with a few pults, anyone can mop up.

For the last enemies, I'd suggest using more baiting tactics and stuff. Baiting with workers usually works very well. Late in the game when you have enough workers already, captured workers are sometimes best used for baiting.

Taking out Peter first seems reasonable. That would mean Ragnar next and Alex last. As long as nobody gets longbows and you keep pumping units in PS, it shouldn't be any problem at all. With an empire this big, you should get enough units for multiple stacks and the wars should be quick.
 
Hello hello dear CFCs

I played some turns until T129. It's a fun part now, a bit bloody though.
I'm not really taking care of my cities they do well enough. I whip here and there and turn my land into desert by chopping everything (even them:xmastree:)
Spoiler "to T129" :

T114 - End
Coimbra and Lisbon switch to HA
Whip Granary in Guimaraes
Hamburg does a Catapult

T115
Switch to Police state
Start a bunch of chops
Build more units as planned

T116
2 HAs 1 chariot and 1 Archer in York. I lose 3 units but York is mine and England is not anymore.
I’m now going to stack my units in Vija and York.

T117
I need to road to other AI for trade routes. I only have some with Peter now
London whip a Barracks
Delhi whip an Elephant

T118 - 119
Do a lot of units / chops / whips
scout Peter
I now have 18 HAs near Peter. One more turn of scouting his land to evaluate his military power.
8 of my HAs are near Novgorod (on a hill) defended by 2 swords and 1 archer it’ll fall easy

T120
Scouting reveals Peter has 3 units per city.. I gather some more HAs not far and some ready to pillage Elephants.

T121
Coimbra and Lisbon do Wealth
DOW on Peter
Move a stack near Elephants and another to Novgorod
Spoiler :
Capture d’écran 2017-10-26 à 14.30.11.png

T122
All Elephants are pillaged
1 sword + 1 archer in Novgorod..it falls with 1 loss
we move to Moscow
I get a GProphet in Delhi. What to do with him? Hindu Shrine (a bit more than 10 gpt), GA?
Spoiler :
Capture d’écran 2017-10-26 à 14.32.57 1.png

T123
I use GPro to trigger a GA

T124
Moscow is defended by 5 units (3 swords 2 archers) and is on a hill again
I pillage Iron
Moscow is mine (lost 5 HAs)

T125
We move to Petersburg

T126
Peter has another city (probably 2) far west
We trade sugar from Alex against Corn

T127
I decide to move my fast HA to take other cities than hilly Petersburg
Spoiler :
Capture d’écran 2017-10-26 à 15.04.31.png

T128
Yaroslav taken without any loss and destroyed.

T129
There is a constant flow of units coming. How many I have?
29 HA, 19 Elephants 15 Cats.
We take St. Petersburg we’ll get in position to declare on Ragnar.
We take and destroy Yekaterinburg
Peter is down to 2 crap cities
Spoiler :
Capture d’écran 2017-10-26 à 15.29.15 1.png

Ragnar has 70 :gold: I'm going give him Alpha for it before I declare. He can't make any use of Alpha anyway
Spoiler :
Capture d’écran 2017-10-26 à 15.39.50.png

End of turnset

I have so many units now I could probably stop production and still win the war.
 

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  • fred T129 AD-0350.CivBeyondSwordSave
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You have 30 HAs, 20 elephants and 15 catapults, no AI has monarchy yet... :lol: :lol: :lol: Yup, not much left to do than to run over the last couple of AI.
 
I think I would split 2 stacks. 1 for Alex and 1 for ragnar. I would start teching towards fuedalism. This game was won 50-60 turns back.

The frustrating thing here is you can't run culture slider or culture build in new cities. Capitulation or conquest seems best. Too much effort claiming the 30% empty land here.
 
Too much effort claiming the 30% empty land here.
You're right and I'm known to be lazy! I'll just raze their cities one after the other.

Splitting in 2 stacks is a good option. I think that I'll take Ragnar from his West border. He is still at war against Alex so I guess he won't have many defense there. Once I'm in, 1 stack goes west, another south to reach Alex and destroy whatever is in the middle.

For a while now I put some beakers into Monarchy for the case I would want to reach Feudalism. To vassal them is a serious option to end this faster if I can research it before they die :lmao:
 
Well pends on finances. At present at 0% science you are +6gpt. The final cities can be razed. Albeit golden age!

It's great that Ragnar and Greeks are at war. Alex's forces should be on Ragnars borders. Assuming he has any stack. He will be churning out units.

Keep stacks of pults and phants together. HA should be used for weaker cities. Don't be afraid to used 1-2 for bait.

Don't fully bombard cities unless you face a huge stack in a city. Even then 2-3 pults to weaken with phants attacking should give odds of 40-50% for the phants.

I think you just need to finish this off. Ragnar has more cities. Alex is a unit spammer.

Yakutsk. Don't be afraid to take a ceasefire for this city. Those 2 spears could be tough on a hill. Same for final city. 1-2 axes somewhere could be useful.

Why is your medic HA heading away from the front line. Big no no.

Workers front line? Having 3-4 workers near Ragnar to build roads could be really useful.

Note great generals appear in the city that helped you cross the GG points. So this is why you have a GG in Ciombra. Better to use a unit from London and get the GG in a place where it can help.

You are organised here so double production on CH. Lisbon is sitting on 80+ hammers towards a courthouse. Probably worth it.
Coimbra 4 turns. So it returns the money over 20-30 turns. Whip when close?
Guimaires has enough hammers to build court house in 1 turn. Build it! Stored hammers should be used up! It should also be running the cows over that mine.
 
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Cease fire? Courthouses? Bombard cities? Divided stacks? Why not just win instead? ;)
Spoiler :








Could have been one turn earlier, didn't know Ragnar is so stubborn that it takes him 2 turns to talk even if I take 4 cities from him.

(Played from your last save in about 4 minutes.)
 
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