Best Civ for Consistent Wins on Diety Pangea/Continents?

[Chibisuke]

America is much better than most people give it credit. The +5 bonus on continent is exceptional. It removes the AI advantage for deity so you can be slightly ahead of them on combat strength (I believe the deity bonus is +4?). This allows you to both be much better at beating back rushes and also lets you do some great early conquest. Plus, now that they have a wildcard slot instead of diplomatic, they are even better. I actually really enjoy playing as America, though they obviously aren't as strong as Nubia or Aztec.

 

[Eliminator_Sr]

The Pitati Archer is immensely powerful. Two of those can hold off any early game rush by themselves. Nothing else is even needed. Two of those plus one warrior can take any city in early game. It is so easy to get them too. Rush Archery, build slingers, and kill the first thing you see. Doesn't matter if it is barbs, city state, or AI civ. Just kill. You will have archery very early. Then upgrade the slingers and crank out several more Pitati Archers. It is unstoppable.

I agree - if you get to Pitatis then it's game over. I'm not really arguing that point but I have been wiped out multiple times by 5 warrior rushes prior to turn 20 and there will be times when you can't get the archery eureka at all. These are rare circumstances but they happen - especially after the latest patch where the aggression is even higher. I suppose with the production boost and slinger build from the beginning then you will survive but when barbs are in the mix it may not be a sure thing because they can kill slingers pretty easily. Two Eagles though I think do much better against early attacks and get promoted quickly instead of dying. These things are basically fringe scenarios though so it would be very difficult to test them. I think Aztecs are better for very experienced players and Nubia is better for those less experienced on Deity - it's really a coin flip though.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

America is much better than most people give it credit. The +5 bonus on continent is exceptional. It removes the AI advantage for deity so you can be slightly ahead of them on combat strength (I believe the deity bonus is +4?). This allows you to both be much better at beating back rushes and also lets you do some great early conquest. Plus, now that they have a wildcard slot instead of diplomatic, they are even better. I actually really enjoy playing as America, though they obviously aren't as strong as Nubia or Aztec.

Yeah deity is +4. This can be a problem since it partially offsets terrain + promotion type advantages. Woods/hill are each +3, and you can get +6 from fortify. Flanking/support isn't in play so early, but you can still get +12 from fortify + woods + hill, or +9 from fortifying on at least something defensive in the aggressive AI's path towards your city. However the +4 makes them still dangerous. With another +5 from America you're getting +14 to +17 depending on terrain and the 34-37 strength warriors are pretty hard on deity AI's 24 strength warriors, especially after promotion. Makes all the difference for staying power there, especially if you stack battlecry's +7.

 

[Forster]

I am amazed to see someone say early barb rushes are rare. I have had so many games where barbs start streaming in before turn 10. All it takes is a camp very close and a scout that got back within the first few turns. If you send your initial warrior off in the wrong direction, you may not be able to get back quick enough to help. If more than one camp spawns close you may spend many turns trying to get rid of them. I have had a game where 4 camps spawned near me, all withing 6 - 8 hex distant and two were horse barbs. All I could do was build warriors and slingers and watch most get killed. It took over 50 turns before I was able to finally get rid of the camps. I finally quit and started a new game.

 

[Chibisuke]

I don't think anyone said early barb rush is rare. I said it's unusual to get hit by 2 camps at once before turn 14, but I'm not saying barb rush is rare.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

As far as the term "early game rush," yes it is possible to get rushed by turn 10-14 but it is incredibly rare. If you get rushed that early by 5 or 6 AI warriors your chances of survival are pretty low no matter which Civ you are playing (especially if you have sent your initial warrior scouting, which most people are going to do). Between 15 - 20 if you have been building slingers, you should have enough of them to have already killed something with a slinger and you can usually have Archery by turn 18 give or take (unless you found a Science city state, in which case you might have it faster). Once you have archery, if you have managed your money properly, you have at least 2 Pitati archers and are in very strong position.

So yea, if you got rushed by turn 12 and were playing Aztec, maybe you survive IF you keep your initial warrior in your capital and build another warrior. (So no scouting, no goodie huts, no discoveries, just turtle right from the start. Highly inefficient strategy.) Even then, you might not survive because AI is much more deadly now with their rushes. They will likely ignore your 2nd warrior and just slam all their units against your city until it falls. Plus, if they rush that early, it is likely they will keep sending an endless stream of units until either your defenses are strong enough to stop them or they take over your capital. Even if you manage to hold them off with Aztec warriors, your growth has been devastated so badly that recovering is going to be difficult.

So I don't think it is useful to focus on a turn 10-14 rush. That is going to ruin almost any game unless you got extreme luck with chocolate/gems and some commercial city states and can just purchase an army right from the start. Vast majority of early game rushes are going to be around turns 20 - 30.

I guess we just don't understand what you are saying or others as well. The first sentence says that it is possible but Incredibly Rare. A few posts later they were saying that it happens 5% to 10% of the time. I think it is more often than that but even if it is 10% of the time that isn't incredibly rare. Incredibly Rare would be something like 1 in 1000 or more.

Whatever though... the whole debate is pointless. Those that believe Nubia is Stronger than the Aztecs aren't going to change their minds and vice versa.

 

[eleven11]

Yeah as was said earlier it's just flavor and preference. There are so many variables and people play vastly different ways. Surprised America didn't get more votes though. Their +5 home continent bonus is nice with Oligarchy.

 

[MarigoldRan]

I agree - if you get to Pitatis then it's game over. I'm not really arguing that point but I have been wiped out multiple times by 5 warrior rushes prior to turn 20 and there will be times when you can't get the archery eureka at all. These are rare circumstances but they happen - especially after the latest patch where the aggression is even higher. I suppose with the production boost and slinger build from the beginning then you will survive but when barbs are in the mix it may not be a sure thing because they can kill slingers pretty easily. Two Eagles though I think do much better against early attacks and get promoted quickly instead of dying. These things are basically fringe scenarios though so it would be very difficult to test them. I think Aztecs are better for very experienced players and Nubia is better for those less experienced on Deity - it's really a coin flip though.

It's not just the Pitati bonus. You get 50% more slingers as Nubia and they promote 50% faster. Very very good for barbs.

In the first 15 turns, Nubia is one of the strongest, possibly the strongest.

Yeah deity is +4. This can be a problem since it partially offsets terrain + promotion type advantages. Woods/hill are each +3, and you can get +6 from fortify. Flanking/support isn't in play so early, but you can still get +12 from fortify + woods + hill, or +9 from fortifying on at least something defensive in the aggressive AI's path towards your city. However the +4 makes them still dangerous. With another +5 from America you're getting +14 to +17 depending on terrain and the 34-37 strength warriors are pretty hard on deity AI's 24 strength warriors, especially after promotion. Makes all the difference for staying power there, especially if you stack battlecry's +7.

That's why I included America in the argument.

 

[liv]

Yeah as was said earlier it's just flavor and preference. There are so many variables and people play vastly different ways. .

Agreed, we are at the point of anecdotes and who can yell the loudest. I think there is an objective answer to what is the best civ but the question has to very accurately posed especially for civ 6 where every civ can consistently win. So "consistently" is too vague. Maybe fastest or fastest to win, fastest to a point or fastest at a certain victory condition, fastest to any victory condition?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Agreed, we are at the point of anecdotes and who can yell the loudest. I think there is an objective answer to what is the best civ but the question has to very accurately posed especially for civ 6 where every civ can consistently win. So "consistently" is too vague. Maybe fastest or fastest to win, fastest to a point or fastest at a certain victory condition, fastest to any victory condition?

The implication appeared to be "which civ, when picked, has the highest chance to survive the early game on deity/pangaea". At least, this was what the OP asked. Given the AI struggles to win before several hundred turns elapse, this is a pretty good metric for win rate consistency too as most losses would arise from early game military pressure.

It's actually an objective question with an objective answer, but would be pretty costly to find that answer in terms of time/effort.

Aztec is the most obvious choice, since it begins with a unit that stops warrior rushes cold AND has persistent strong bonuses to both war and economy for the rest of the game behind this early immunity. I would be surprised if rigorous empirical testing under optimized play would give a different civ a higher win rate. Sumeria and America are also very rush-resistant, but don't have the same game-long bonuses behind it.

I'm a little surprised Nubia is quite so popular in this regard. You need to get archery and upgrade the slingers for them, but if you buy enough time to do this you're probably going to live as any civ as the extra damage from archers makes it very hard for them to focus down your warriors w/o suiciding units and still failing to kill. The problem is getting a couple warriors/archers between your city and the enemy fast enough, not defending once you have these!

War carts, eagle warriors, and 25 strength warriors all give the immediate ability to hold off pre-archery and thus are in principle the most consistent for deity/pangea.

 

[MarigoldRan]

As Nubia you get 3 slingers every time it takes anyone else to build 2. And the slingers get promotions faster making them "tankier".

And all of these slingers naturally transition into the next phase: the Pitati attack.

That's what you're missing here about Nubia. They effectively start the game with Agoge (as long as you're building slingers).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Slingers don't tank hits well enough to let them go tanking. I will accept the fact that Nubia getting them more cheaply means that it will have more total units/DPS potential than a generic civ, and should thus be considered more rush resistant. I don't think this is enough to beat out Aztec, which has better econ bonus and will frequently win hard w/o urgently upgrading to archers, but this should certainly push it higher than civs like Germany from this list when it comes to deity/pangaea.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Production-wise you can have 3 Pitati for every 2 Eagles and 3 Pitati are better at conquest than 2 Eagles.

And slingers are great at tanking as long as you have enough of them to rotate the damaged ones out.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I do not see any reason to discuss it with MarigoldRan anymore. The player is obsessed with Nubia. This player has 5 or more threads all dedicated in telling everyone how Nubia is by far the best/strongest Civ to use in this game. Just search around on his/her posts or the many threads they have recently created about the subject.

 

[MarigoldRan]

And yet you still felt the need to post.

Also, am I wrong? Is Nubia not the best civ in the game?

 

[Arent11]

Simply start up a multiplayer game, Aztecs against Nubia & fight it out

 

[Eliminator_Sr]

And yet you still felt the need to post.

Also, am I wrong? Is Nubia not the best civ in the game?

It's debatable - they certainly are the most boring though

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Production-wise you can have 3 Pitati for every 2 Eagles and 3 Pitati are better at conquest than 2 Eagles.

And slingers are great at tanking as long as you have enough of them to rotate the damaged ones out.

It doesn't matter what's better for conquest for "win consistency on deity/pangea" right now. You mostly need to ensure survival in the earliest turns and then avoid glaring mistakes.

If you were competing for "who has faster finish between the two on average" the answer is different.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

America's continent bonus makes them extremely resilient, maybe more so than the Aztecs due to the high cost of the Eagle Warrior. The problem is that if they're pressed hard for an extended period of time they don't have much to help them get going. Both the Aztecs and Rome have advantages that will propel them to the top as soon as the pressure is off. War Carts and Pitatis can usually lollerskate their way to victory. IMHO America is more likely to survive, but also to find themselves in a hole with scarce resources. If the edge of your continent is in the wrong place and you have a lousy start it can quite a bit of skill and patience to pull off an American victory. However, if you're just talking about surviving the opening stages of the game they're pretty much tops.

 

[MarigoldRan]

It's debatable - they certainly are the most boring though

Consistency = Boring.