It really depends on your playstyle and the map. I rush culture early game so getting mysticism is not a great delay. In my current game with Seondeok I've gone Craftmanship, State Workforce, Gov. Plaza, 2x Pingala in capital (culture), Foreign Trade, Mysticism, Early Empire, begin Oracle in capital, Political Philosophy. Then finished Oracle with a chop with Autocracy bonus and went for Ancestral Hall. It's all about the timing, I reached Political Philosophy on turn 49 with no culture city state nor even boost from meeting 3 city states, just settled a coffee for a +1 culture. In conclusion, 6 Great Scientist Points and PP on turn 49. As soon as capital reaches pop 7, go for theatre square and 6 Great Writer Points as well. On turn 60 or so I finished Ancestral Hall and went for Recorded History for the 4th governor title. It went to Magnus, that finished the Pyramids in my second city. Then I transferred him to capital and with 5th governor title from Defensive tactics spammed like 6 - 7 settlers from turn 70 to 85. All cities began with 6 charge builders.
Civ VI early game guide for the Decidedly Average (feedback welcome!)
- Thread starter knighterrant81
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It really depends on your playstyle and the map. I rush culture early game so getting mysticism is not a great delay. In my current game with Seondeok I've gone Craftmanship, State Workforce, Gov. Plaza, 2x Pingala in capital (culture), Foreign Trade, Mysticism, Early Empire, begin Oracle in capital, Political Philosophy. Then finished Oracle with a chop with Autocracy bonus and went for Ancestral Hall. It's all about the timing, I reached Political Philosophy on turn 49 with no culture city state nor even boost from meeting 3 city states, just settled a coffee for a +1 culture. In conclusion, 6 Great Scientist Points and PP on turn 49. As soon as capital reaches pop 7, go for theatre square and 6 Great Writer Points as well. On turn 60 or so I finished Ancestral Hall and went for Recorded History for the 4th governor title. It went to Magnus, that finished the Pyramids in my second city. Then I transferred him to capital and with 5th governor title from Defensive tactics spammed like 6 - 7 settlers from turn 70 to 85. All cities began with 6 charge builders.
Ah that's fast enough to get the Oracle is it, I've only tried getting Mysticism even earlier. Back to the drawing board I go
I usually build Oracle and Government Plaza in different cities but in this case production was good enough to support both, so I delayed mysticism for the upper tree. It’s a pretty strong opener in my opinion, since you can later build encampment for general points, industrial zone for engineer’s or whatever you need.
knighterrant81
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What difficulty level is this on? Since Rise and Fall, I've always wondered about how best to handle the Ancestral Hall bonus. In general, I've always felt it comes a bit too late, but perhaps the culture focus brings Political Philosophy early enough for it to be viable. It would depend on how close you are to rival Civs at higher difficulties who can gobble up land pretty quickly with their free Settlers.
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The point is you need settlers out ASAP but also get their land developing. These are primary concerns for the first 80 turns. Getting settler cheaper that also sprout a free worker is very strong, add pyramids to that and you get the idea this may be why games can be faster.
Faster settler = cheaper district and free worker to chop it in (delay chopping possibly depending on intent) If not chopping that builder certainly speeds things up regardless.
Al of this comes down to faster culture... so initial concerns are how the hell do I get to PP at T50
Faster culture also brings with it stronger chopping but does increase district costs a bit... so we settle and place district then wait a bit unless really pushing theatres or similar.
Deity, all the rest standard.
I was really close to my first neighbour. I just forward-settled him with my 3rd city, less than 10 squares from their capital to force a DoW from him (thanks to a Victoria's post explaining this
).True enough! It's a bit too late but... if you manage to do it quickly, and get the proper timing with your settler spam phase and feudalism, it'll be worth it.
+150% to chop settlers (Colonization + A. Hall + 2 x Magnus) and a free 6 charge builder with each city thanks to the Pyramids and Serfdom.
Edit: I got a save from turn 49 so I've taken a screenshot for you to see the initial settings. By the way, I realised that I hired Magnus with the 3rd governor title and promoted Pingala x3 with 4th.
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knighterrant81
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Hmm, so to sum up this method, you are basically rushing the Government Plaza and maxing out Culture to start building/chopping the Ancestral Hall by turn 50. Do you build any Settlers in the first 50 turns then, or wait until the Ancestral Hall is done? Or perhaps just one or two for additional Monuments-->additional Culture?
I think I understand the method, but this is the thing that is always frustrating about the Civ 6 board - new developments and ideas are buried deep in random threads, and everyone just assumes you've already heard of them.
Side note: this method slightly reminds me of the old National College starts in Civ 5 where you would delay expansion to get a bonus later (in that case, a cheaper National College = production bonus, basically).
My initial builds were: scout, settler, builder, settler. Beelined State workforce getting both inspirations (one from builder, one from Seowon). Monuments on all three cities. Governmental Plaza and Pingala x2 in the capital.
I built only those 2 initial settlers. Then finished Oracle and went straight into A. Hall.
I built only those 2 initial settlers. Then finished Oracle and went straight into A. Hall.
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There is normally enough production for 1. More production maybe another, all depends on the map and start position. Being attacked gums the works up a bit
knighterrant81
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Here's a question: Why the Oracle? It seems like a waste of time/Culture to grab Mysticism, and then try to build a more expensive Wonder that produces less Culture than the Pyramids. The Oracle probably is easier to find territory for, and it has a great bonus for Culture Victories and a decent one for Science Victories, it seems like the Pyramids make more sense as an early Wonder target.
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This is very true apart from a CV. Denying great writers is as important as earning them. Oracle is a big help early with regard to great writers, especially in conjunction with Pingala.
Despite playing against Russia, I've recruited like 6 great writers - most of them thanks to the Oracle. 6 writers x 2 works = 12 works ; 12 works x 4 culture = 48 culture. Much more than the Pyramids.
Edit: I was on a science game by the way. Victoria, I can't beat Pericles SV personal record. This time I finished SV on 190, 2 turns more than the greek beast... I don't know what to do to lower that turn counter.
knighterrant81
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It matters when you get that Culture just as much as the quantity, doesn't it? If the entire goal is "PP by 50" it still seems like the Pyramids is a better bet if you are going to build a Wonder. Certainly not denying the Oracle is a powerful Wonder. The only reason (From the perspective of a SV) that you are maxing Culture is to get your Ancestral Hall out ASAP so you can pump out Settlers.
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Often when sub 200 it is about what you could have done different earlier but mainly eurekas. They can shave a hell of a lot of turns off. Pericles is the fastest SV player so trying to beat a Peri best time is a struggle.
Against Russia is when you do need it to get writers. It is a question of how much culture you need and how else you can get it. Oracle is a lot of early investment that was not in settlers.Pyramids is about builder charges not culture.
I can’t agree on that. I’ve not known about successful science victories without high amounts of culture. Especially regarding democracy - you need it to max production on your main spaceport city.
I wouldn’t suggest you to invest that hard to reach globalization by pure culture, since the moon landing will pump you there. But at least you need to reach democracy by the time you are building or buying the main spaceport, and for that you need like 400 - 500 culture per turn in or around turn 140 - 150, which is a LOT.
Maybe I’m messing up. It would be nice to hear other efficient strategies to a science victory.
PatchesSnatches
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How many workers do people usually make before you get Serfdom with Feudalism? Seems like you probably need 3 to get early strategics and hit eurekas? Or is it better to make more workers and chop out settlers with Colonization?
I'm getting there, I do think you're onto something. Passed 200cpt on t104. Still didn't fit the Oracle in which I could've done I think, but got a 7 city Colosseum (which requires around 6 chops so not a given to find a suitable spot at all).
Great map and great civ, but neither cultural nor scientific cs anywhere. I noticed in your ss you captured one neighbour, which I think should be heavily considered as an early mid-game aim. 5-7 decently developed cities for the price of maybe 6(?) knights and a battering ram.
With some refining, I reckon 200cpt is achievable 7-10 turns earlier with Pericles. Not that it's anything special with 200 in particular, but I like having something to aim at. Perhaps a better benchmark to aim for is when you get Rationalism with 10 pop cities, or the Opera and Ballet one if you go for more culture.
I can't see your screenshot incroc 
it says I don't have permission to see that media.
Well, that are good numbers. Provided you've met all the inspirations through there, you'll be fine. I usually invest hard on culture until turn 100 so I've the right spot to reach tier 3 governments around turn 140. I can thereupon focus on my main goal: campuses usually because I'm kind of obsessed with science.
Yes, it should, whenever possible. In my opinion, to force a neighbour DoW you is really worth it if you've prepared for it, since you'll have much lesser diplomatic penalties from conquering him and will get the inspiration for Defensive Tactics.
6 knights cost 390 shields for chariots - Maneuver boosts 50% your production towards them - 720 gold and 60 iron with Professional Army. Not that much of an investment, considering the extra cities you'll gain.
it says I don't have permission to see that media. Well, that are good numbers. Provided you've met all the inspirations through there, you'll be fine. I usually invest hard on culture until turn 100 so I've the right spot to reach tier 3 governments around turn 140. I can thereupon focus on my main goal: campuses usually because I'm kind of obsessed with science.
Yes, it should, whenever possible. In my opinion, to force a neighbour DoW you is really worth it if you've prepared for it, since you'll have much lesser diplomatic penalties from conquering him and will get the inspiration for Defensive Tactics.
6 knights cost 390 shields for chariots - Maneuver boosts 50% your production towards them - 720 gold and 60 iron with Professional Army. Not that much of an investment, considering the extra cities you'll gain.
