reddishrecue
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 6,453
Which one do you rather use? Police state, universal suffrage or representation?
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Best government civic
- Thread starter reddishrecue
- Start date
MarigoldRan
WARLORD
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2011
- Messages
- 2,349
Representation of course. Lots of specialists do well with Representation.
Switch to Police State for military build-up.
Otherwise, Representation.
Switch to Police State for military build-up.
Otherwise, Representation.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
I run Rep for most of the game but I usually switch to Uni Suffrage for the extra production later on.
obsolete
Deity
This question is like asking "Which one would you chose.... Slavery or Serfdom" 
Come to think of it, after all those horrible patches, and it never occurred even once to perhaps boost Serfdom a little?
Failaxis never ceases to amaze me...
Come to think of it, after all those horrible patches, and it never occurred even once to perhaps boost Serfdom a little?
Failaxis never ceases to amaze me...
MarigoldRan
WARLORD
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2011
- Messages
- 2,349
Serfdom is decent for Spiritual civs. Otherwise iffy.
US as long as some Banks are online (i need some money to run it in incomes).. 
Get Kremlin done and can hurry up multiple units/turn without draft 
Repres I run only if I get Pyramids done.. its best for mid game when there is no money to hurry up anything.. (for short time of game US + Slavery is wonderful combo)
Get Kremlin done and can hurry up multiple units/turn without draft Repres I run only if I get Pyramids done.. its best for mid game when there is no money to hurry up anything.. (for short time of game US + Slavery is wonderful combo)
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Not sure what serfdom has to do with the discussion.
The answer is, of course "yes" - they are all good - HR is good, too. They are just differently good.
If you are going to war or at war, PS is great. Rep is great for research, US is great for infrastructure building.
The answer is, of course "yes" - they are all good - HR is good, too. They are just differently good.
If you are going to war or at war, PS is great. Rep is great for research, US is great for infrastructure building.
Hereditary Rule is the most versatile goverment civic, you can use it in every approach and it's available early. Also very good because it gives cheap diplo points.
Representation is the best civic for fast research, period. Usually the civic i use in lategame when going for space. Extremely powerful when you have it early, that's why Pyramids are so great.
Police State is great for waring, but that's about it. Unless you want to go to war, ignore it. Also unneeded when you want to go for space, just takes time away from your research and does nothing.
Universal Suffrage is the civic i use the least, actually it's only very good if you have alot of commerce - that usually means tons of cottages, and they have to be matured. Then it's pretty damn great, as you can buy tons of stuff in no-time, even in the crappiest cities.
My vote for Hereditary Rule, although Rep is my fav easily.
Representation is the best civic for fast research, period. Usually the civic i use in lategame when going for space. Extremely powerful when you have it early, that's why Pyramids are so great.
Police State is great for waring, but that's about it. Unless you want to go to war, ignore it. Also unneeded when you want to go for space, just takes time away from your research and does nothing.
Universal Suffrage is the civic i use the least, actually it's only very good if you have alot of commerce - that usually means tons of cottages, and they have to be matured. Then it's pretty damn great, as you can buy tons of stuff in no-time, even in the crappiest cities.
My vote for Hereditary Rule, although Rep is my fav easily.
z0wb13
undead
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2009
- Messages
- 657
representation. is. the. best. for most of the early and mid-game, the caveat being that you need to build (or capture) the pyramids in the early game. it makes specialists = a silver mine sans 
instead of difficult to afford.
that said, hereditary rule isn't too bad. it certainly beats nothing, and it confers favorite civ bonus with some of the more menacing leaders: pacal, joao, gilgamesh and suleiman.
but let's say you don't have the 'mids, so it's around the start of the endgame (around the industrial age), and you finally have access to all civics. now, representation starts to have diminishing returns. cottages will start to outperform specialists, and the generation of more great people will take more and more resources. the extreme example is a one city challenge (where rep might win), but as more land becomes available, and you build more cities, cottages get even better.
police state is always an option, obviously, but you are pretty much committed to a domination victory. state property and universal suffrage can make for a good hybrid economy, where the savings from zero distance maintenance are funneled into rushbuying for war or more
for SS win.
instead of difficult to afford. that said, hereditary rule isn't too bad. it certainly beats nothing, and it confers favorite civ bonus with some of the more menacing leaders: pacal, joao, gilgamesh and suleiman.
but let's say you don't have the 'mids, so it's around the start of the endgame (around the industrial age), and you finally have access to all civics. now, representation starts to have diminishing returns. cottages will start to outperform specialists, and the generation of more great people will take more and more resources. the extreme example is a one city challenge (where rep might win), but as more land becomes available, and you build more cities, cottages get even better.
police state is always an option, obviously, but you are pretty much committed to a domination victory. state property and universal suffrage can make for a good hybrid economy, where the savings from zero distance maintenance are funneled into rushbuying for war or more
for SS win.
Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,257
Representation is my "default" civic. That happiness is nice, but the fact that every settled GP or specialist gives 3 beakers is a boon.
However, if my production is balls, my commerce is good, and I need to war, a temporary trip into US with 0% slider and going all out buying units can help a lot. US/drafting goes the distance when it comes to cranking units out of terrible cities.
It's also great for buying nukes.
However, if my production is balls, my commerce is good, and I need to war, a temporary trip into US with 0% slider and going all out buying units can help a lot. US/drafting goes the distance when it comes to cranking units out of terrible cities.
It's also great for buying nukes.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
US I think outperforms rep in late-game. The Hammers from towns is needed to production and being able to buy stuff is critical.
In K-Mod, Serfdom give +1C to farms and plantations, but -1C to towns. So it's very much a mid-game civic. It's pretty powerful sometimes, but you wouldn't want to use it once you have mostly towns...Serfdom -> farms gain 1C extra. Problem solved (ok maybe too powerfull
I don't see serfdom as necesserily bad.
If you don't need to whip anything, and you are in a situation where you have to little happiness to make use of caste system, it's the best alternative.
When workers make improvements 50% more efficient, you only need to build 66% as many of them, so it can also be used as a hammer saving.
Clearly serfdom isn't the best civic around, but I think it has abit undserved bad reputation.
If you don't need to whip anything, and you are in a situation where you have to little happiness to make use of caste system, it's the best alternative.
When workers make improvements 50% more efficient, you only need to build 66% as many of them, so it can also be used as a hammer saving.
Clearly serfdom isn't the best civic around, but I think it has abit undserved bad reputation.
The problem with Serfdom is that workers are relatively cheap, and +50% isn't much of a boost. If you generally get 1-2 workers per city, at 48-60 hammers per worker, adding Serfdom would let you save a whole 16-40 hammers (and 0 - 0.67 gold per city per turn). It doesn't help that it's matched up against two of the best civics in the game in Slavery and Caste System.
There are often brief periods when slavery is unneeded and you don't want to use Caste specialists, making Serfdom best by default for a short time. If you're SPI, you might as well make use of it then. "Use it if you're SPI and you've got nothing better to do" is hardly a rousing endorsement, but it's all Serfdom has got.
There are often brief periods when slavery is unneeded and you don't want to use Caste specialists, making Serfdom best by default for a short time. If you're SPI, you might as well make use of it then. "Use it if you're SPI and you've got nothing better to do" is hardly a rousing endorsement, but it's all Serfdom has got.
JammerUno
King
+1C to farms is a rather enticing idea though. Serfdom might be more useful on epic/marathon, but on normal the cost of laying roads doesn't decrease. The cost of mining only decreases marginally when you add the movement costs to the improving. When you're clearing jungle there's some point to it, otherwise caste is much most useful when you're not whipping.
It depends on what you are trying to achieve.
And, generically speaking, it is quite straight forward:
- PS if most of the hammers are invested in military units AND/OR you have WW problems (which of course means that you are at war); it might be good also planning a war, of course.
- REP works well in SE and to speed up your research if you have libraries (and/or similar buildings) and/or you are running caste system; by the way, under REP mercantilism gain some strength and might also be kind of more useful than Free Market in some situations; and last note, if Rep comes from the 'mids, some other early wonders (as Great Library and Parthenon) or NW (as Oxford or NE) in a "GP farm / wonder spam" kind of Capital also works well together with Rep, boosting its efficacy. In the end game (modern era) the economy under Rep goes often a little in difficulty.
- US AFAIK is great if (usually in the end game, of course) you have a big empire not too much war oriented, with a very big and complex economy, likely with corporations, and a good number of towns in your CFCs, which is a rather rare situation for myself that either go for a domination or (more likely) I don't expand too much when aiming a peaceful victory. So I can't really say at its best how good it is. I use it with Free Speech, Free Market and Free Religion in a CE oriented game, when I play focusing strongly on cottage spam, avoiding SE and wonders plans. I (speaking for myself) like this kind of game strategies a bit less than Rep and SE, especially if my empire is small enough to leverage Rep at its best.
However, I'm not in the master players on this forum, so you'll likely get better points of views from other posters. I just wished to drop my 2 cents in this discussion.
Cheers.
- yatta
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Like many things in Civ, 50% more efficient workers sounds better than it actually is.
I don't remember exactly (and I can't remember where the data is), but I think that, in general, it shaves a turn off the time to make an improvement. Which is helpful, but not all THAT helpful and clearly not as helpful as slavery or caste.
I don't remember exactly (and I can't remember where the data is), but I think that, in general, it shaves a turn off the time to make an improvement. Which is helpful, but not all THAT helpful and clearly not as helpful as slavery or caste.
Zx Zero Zx
Deity
Hereditary Rule.
