Yvain can do exactly the same thing. both of them can get insanely high strength levels from their respective mana nodes making pretty much any unit "reliably beatable".
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- Thread starter DarkxL0rd
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Yvain can do exactly the same thing. both of them can get insanely high strength levels from their respective mana nodes making pretty much any unit "reliably beatable".
Monkeyfinger
Deity
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Kael hated how a unit that (almost) every civ could get without sacrificing anything could use anti-stack spells with no drawback. He decided all those spells should either belong to units that are unique to something, or have some sort of risk or penalty (see Maelstrom, Wither)
Nothing can reliably beat an entrenched, highly promoted, unhurt unit at a decent tech level with raw strength alone. A CG3 guerilla 2 longbowman on a hill fortified in a mature city has a non-negligible chance of beating Auric Ascended in a straight fight, for chrissakes.
Powerful direct damage spells that don't risk the caster are the necessary equalizer if you want to be sure to beat a unit like that without losing anyone. Chalid has those, Yvain does not.
Tyrs
King
Huh, a casting time could be kind of cool. Sure you can crush that mighty stack of doom, but you have to hold it back for 3 turns first.
That limits the usefulness to holding a city though, not the best.
Perhaps an awesome effect, then a "recovery" period where the caster can't move or cast for a few turns after
That limits the usefulness to holding a city though, not the best.
Perhaps an awesome effect, then a "recovery" period where the caster can't move or cast for a few turns after
tbh, i recon the discussion between chalid and yvian is getting kinda silly. Remember, they don't come in a stand-alone package, they are and are intended to be a part of a complete package. Chalid also means overcouncil and ratha's (which can be upgraded to war chariots, keeping the blinding light!), yvian means GoN, and all the other FoL goodies. Basically, Chalid (=emp) is better in open area's (think great plains) where the movement really makes a difference (you're going in the mounted line, remember), while yvian (=FoL) is better in a forested area (i.e. arborea).
other, non-religious or non-hero units don't belong in this area, so don't start with the dwarven druids or shadows (ignoring the ridiculous dwarven+FoL combo for now, which is just silly compared to RoK+CoE (or possibly AV for the Ljuch))
other, non-religious or non-hero units don't belong in this area, so don't start with the dwarven druids or shadows (ignoring the ridiculous dwarven+FoL combo for now, which is just silly compared to RoK+CoE (or possibly AV for the Ljuch))
Have you played with Yvain when he's pretty much maxed out with 7+ nature mana nodes? I've yet to encounter an entrenched unit that I didn't have at least an 80% chance of winning against. 80% is pretty reliable in my book.
Atnanor
+2 Beer Affinity
Yeah, pretty much.
Annex
Tyranny and Mutation
heisenberg
Lost in Erebus
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that, and pillar of fire lol... there aren't many direct damage spells around, and others like maelstrom have a far higher damage % cap than that of pillar
Annex
Tyranny and Mutation
Except maelstrom damages YOUR units within two squares as well as the enemy.
Lade
Prince
You guys keep forgeting the most major factor
Yvain looks like a tree stump, tree stumps = pure awesomeness
Chalid always remind me of a lamp thingy
Lamp thingys do not = pure awesomeness
Yvain looks like a tree stump, tree stumps = pure awesomeness
Chalid always remind me of a lamp thingy
Lamp thingys do not = pure awesomeness
Annex
Tyranny and Mutation
Heh, it took me a while to figure out that thing Chalid was carrying was a hammer.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Until you do it 5 times and die?
7 Nature nodes gets you your 'massive' 80% win chance. 1 Chalid = those kind of odds for your ENTIRE INVADING FORCE.
I don't get it. Yvain is a toy that lets you polish your lands. Chalid lets you win the game about 30 turns after you build him. These are just not comparable feats.
KillerClowns
Emperor
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I'd wager Chalid's hammer is going to be reforged from nerf foam in Ice.
Any takers?
Any takers?
so chalid gives a strength bonus to the people with him?
and you do realize that yvain has the exact same mana affinity as chalid right? and on top of that...like you said, he upgrades your entire realm. I musta missed the 30 turn win rule. does that have something to do with the overcouncil?
I'm saying 80% chance is the LEAST of the percentages encountered. And he can heal himself every turn. And we're not just talking the value of the hero based on their attacking prowess. Yvain can "polish your lands", resurrect other fallen heroes, while still being one of the most powerful units in the game. Sure Chalid is a warmongering beast, but the versatility that Yvain demonstrates gives him the slight advantage over Chalid.
Monkeyfinger
Deity
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what
no
that's a 1 in 5 chance of losing
that's fine for a grunt but way too much for a hero
Chalid has heal too (and yes, I do find it quite useful), vitalize is sort of overrated because spring and sanitation take care of the most common kinds of junk terrain, and ressurect... come on. Don't lose your heroes.
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
I call and raise you $20.
chalid doesn't boost your units strength, it minimises the strength every opponent that gets close to him.
The 30 turn win rule basically means you've conquered your first major opponent 30 turns after you've build chalid, no matter how big that opponent's military is, or you're doing something seriously wrong.
Yes, Yvian can vitalize (just like every other druid if I recall correctly), but while vitalizing, he won't be doing any fighting, causing him to be either an economical hero or a pretty decent combat hero.
1 on 1, Chalid would still beat Yvian hands down. Not to mention the fact that he comes earlier, with more economy techs on the way.
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