Best Use of SGL?

[MAS]

you could conceivably get an SGL for Flight, one for your free tech, one one each for your two free techs!

You can get a SGL from the philosophy free tech, but not from reaching-next-age free tech.

 

[Bartleby]

Are you positive? I could've sworn it happened to me.

 

[Snarkhunter]

1. Lux slider is at 10%. Why? Set it to 0 and stop wasting money
2. Science slider can be dropped from 70% to 30% and still be at "1 turn left"
3. Your capital is not growing!!! Get rid of that entertainer!!
4. All cities making Wealth should switch to making workers to add back into cities so when you switch to Republic you won't be financially crushed.
5. Switch to Republic asap.
6. Better to keep expanding until you run out of room before starting a war. You've still got room NE of your capital.

First, thanks for the review; it's helpful. Next, um, lessee--this is from memory, as I don't have the game in front of me. Re:

1. Tried that, had some disorder problems. I can tinker with it some more, though. It was on 0% most of the game up till recently.
2. IIRC, I haven't moved/finished moving for this turn yet; turning down the slider is on the agenda. (Although the last moves last night were kinda late & I was kinda sleepy--may just have overlooked the thing )
3. Don't remember where the clown crept in, but you're right, he's gotta go. And I was going to join a worker or two as I recall to bump the cap even further up, but haven't gotten to it yet.
4. Lessee if I understand this one: make workers now, use them, then join back to avoid maintenance after the switch? Or join them to more productive candidates at the switch, perhaps--that sounds better to me, build those core cities up at the expense of a relatively unproductive periphery. Get more unit support, too, if they get to 7, IIRC.
5. Ok, sounds good, but after Egypt is toast? Shouldn't be but a turn or two more. Or I could leave it as a one-city wonder, I suppose. In any case--postpone taking out the Persians?
6. Ok, so this is still the rapid expansion phase?

Actually, #6 is my main question: at what point do you (the Civ community) consider doing a rapid takeout of your nearest/most annoying neighbor vs continued peaceful expansion? And in this game, do you think that time has passed or not yet come?

My second question would be the FP: when, where, & how (if you don't have a friendly L to help things along)?

 

[TruePurple]

I wouldn't listen to everything delphi said, (havent looked at save but..) if you have core cities where entertainers are keeping the city happy. Then you need to INCREASE not decrease your lux slider.

Unless you have a great of lux resources, are just expanding or have & good amount of happiness structures...its very rare to have lux slider less then 10%. 30-40% Isn't too uncommon either.(anything more usually means your having serious war weariness or other problems that you really need to consider)

To figure out how far to put the lux slider, go to F1, the domestic adviser (you can also reach it by clicking the icon top left side of the screen) Look at your cities moving up the lux slider so that the majority (85% or more, thats not a solid number though, just a vague guideline) of your core cities are happy without the need of any specialists. You know that by counting the happiness faces and the unhappiness faces. Happy faces should be at least as much or more then the unhappiness faces. Theres a download somewhere that makes this easier by putting colored round faces next to the heads. Especially helpful when the faces overlap.

It changes a bit during expansion then after. During you need to keep most all your towns happy. Do so with lux sliders and settler/worker production. Afterwards use temples & lux slider to keep your core cities happy. But don't be afraid to use scientist specialist or two to keep a city happy that is close to its max population or is running out of tiles that produce much. Remember such often causes a city to stop growing unless tiles are exceptionally rich in food.

When ever the science production says 1 day left of making that science, turn down science slider till right before that number increases. Science doesn't carry over and is just lost. So you might as well get what ever gold you can on last turn.

FP needs 10 cities, build it in a city that can make it relatively fast. But also having it in the center of other cities helps (it counts as a second cap for closeness corruption, its a rather small effect but it does have a effect)

Another consideration for FP is a city with alot of good commerce etc tiles that can grow nicely and is not too crowded. The FP reduces corruption alot in the town its placed in (if the town wasnt very corrupt to begin with you won't notice it as much) With courthouse and sometimes need police station as well you can eliminate corruption in the town FP is in.

This makes it a great super town, nice for those GW's that boost science in the city their in and GW's that are tourist attractions (if made early enough)

Civassist 2 will tell you the effects of different FP placements. Just not the potential future effects.

 

[Delphi456]

First, thanks for the review; it's helpful. Next, um, lessee--this is from memory, as I don't have the game in front of me. Re:

1. Tried that, had some disorder problems. I can tinker with it some more, though. It was on 0% most of the game up till recently.

Based on the most recent sav, disorder is IMPOSSIBLE at 0% this turn. Personally, I do an F1 check before the end of EVERY turn. Sorting by population size (smallest to biggest) is an easy way to see the state of happiness.
@TruePurple: you may want to actually look at the file before commenting further on this point.

2. IIRC, I haven't moved/finished moving for this turn yet; turning down the slider is on the agenda. (Although the last moves last night were kinda late & I was kinda sleepy--may just have overlooked the thing )

As stated before, the F1 check should be done EVERY turn - for both sliders.

3. Don't remember where the clown crept in, but you're right, he's gotta go. And I was going to join a worker or two as I recall to bump the cap even further up, but haven't gotten to it yet.

Good. Also, set governor to 'Emphasize Production' for ALL Cities.

4. Lessee if I understand this one: make workers now, use them, then join back to avoid maintenance after the switch? Or join them to more productive candidates at the switch, perhaps--that sounds better to me, build those core cities up at the expense of a relatively unproductive periphery. Get more unit support, too, if they get to 7, IIRC.

I always crank out lots of workers in Despotism because the unit support is so good. Right before going Republic, I boost core towns to 7 for better units support. Also, adding workers back BEFORE launching your GA will really increase production.

5. Ok, sounds good, but after Egypt is toast? Shouldn't be but a turn or two more. Or I could leave it as a one-city wonder, I suppose. In any case--postpone taking out the Persians?

Yes, take that last city, but hold off on Persia. BTW, nice use of artillery. I didn't learn their value until I hit emperor level. You're ahead of most players, in this area.

6. Ok, so this is still the rapid expansion phase?
Actually, #6 is my main question: at what point do you (the Civ community) consider doing a rapid takeout of your nearest/most annoying neighbor vs continued peaceful expansion? And in this game, do you think that time has passed or not yet come?

If there is still good land left, you should still be peacefully expanding (under most circumstances). I think it would be very foolish to start a war during the same period you are cranking out settlers. So, go back and settle the remaining good land (and any you've just conquered). You can still build military units, but make sure settlers get priority. Once all is settled, pick a civ and fight a 'smart' war - meaining, use catapults to redline first.

My second question would be the FP: when, where, & how (if you don't have a friendly L to help things along)?

Build it asap in a town that's not highly corrupt, because you want it done in a respectable amount of time. Maybe in Nanking??

Lastly, you have a number of towns that aren't growing because you are working forest - make an adjustment so that there is at least SOME growth.

 

[TruePurple]

Sorry about that Delphi

 

[Son_Of_Dido]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but here's my personal list of what to consider when deciding which wonder to use your SGL on. In no particular order (which can juggle depending on your desired victory type).

1. Cost of the Wonder, in shields. [SoZ and Mausoleum are just 200 shields. you can handbuild these quickly. ToA is 500. Much more bang for your buck as it were.]
2. Value of the Wonder in terms of Culture Per Turn [if you're going for 20K this is absolutely #1. ]
3. Competition for the Wonder. If you're the only civ with the technology or resource to build a given wonder, then you don't need to SGLrush it to get it ahead of other civs. If there's a Wonder you want that the AI civs can build, or worse yet started building, the SGL can be the difference between you beating them to the wonder or not.
4. Value of the Wonder in terms of its effects. [The Pyramids is worth rushing. The Mausoleum is not.]
5. Will this given wonder start your golden age or not? And do you want it now or not? [The Colossus and the Lighthouse, for instance, are instant golden ages for England, Portugal, or the Hittites. Stay away if you're still in Despotism!]

 

[shinsei]

It would actually prevent you from getting a MGL if you maintained the SGL?but will SGL prevent you from getting another SGL?

By the way,is it true that Techs take more turns to research if its on an larger map?

 

[Aabraxan]

Yes, having an SGL will keep you from getting an MGL. I don't think the other way around is true, though.

As far as techs and map sizes, I've heard something about that, but I'm unsure enough that I'll leave that question for someone who knows more than I.

Edit: And I don't know if one SGL will prevent you from getting another SGL. I would not think so.

 

[A Revolutionary]

Techs cost more beakers on larger maps, so they can take longer to research in the early game. This is done because on larger maps you will have room for more cities, and more cities means more cash to put into research. Otherwise late game techs could be researched too quickly if the number of beakers was the same on larger maps as on smaller ones. I think this is how it works, but I could be wrong.

 

[TruePurple]

I peeked at this thread when I got home & opted for Pyramids (selling off the 3 existing granaries I had first!).

You can sell em off after as well. Up to you. No rush. Might want to wait till its actually built so you get one more turn of double growth.

 

[shinsei]

Techs cost more beakers on larger maps, so they can take longer to research in the early game. This is done because on larger maps you will have room for more cities, and more cities means more cash to put into research. Otherwise late game techs could be researched too quickly if the number of beakers was the same on larger maps as on smaller ones. I think this is how it works, but I could be wrong.

Is there any information about how much beaker every tech cost?i wanted to know the value for each tech so i can take the advantage of my current tech for trading.

 

[Delphi456]

Is there any information about how much beaker every tech cost?i wanted to know the value for each tech so i can take the advantage of my current tech for trading.

Download a copy of CivAssist2 to get tech prices.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I have had multiple SGL's at the same time. Having an MGL does not block getting an SGL, either.
But you cannot get an MGL if you have either an MGL or an SGL active.

 

[shinsei]

That mean you should either use your leaders right away or never get another one?for SGL just rush building right away,and for MGL just make an army?

 

[Snarkhunter]

Thanx for the many replies--I've been away for a week w/o Internet, at the 23rd US Go Congress, upholding mediocrity as a 2 dan

When I got back, I felt I had to get Leo's; that triggered my GA, so I started building a rider army & adding a little infrastructure to a few cities that seemed like they could use it. then I settled accounts with Persia. Among other things, the only supply of saltpeter on this side of the world is on a little island the Persians were squatting on, so that was as good a reason as any to bump them off. My continent is basically finished, or will be in a few turns; the only thing left will be to squeeze in towns in the hopelessly corrupt areas where it doesn't look ripe for cities or metropolises later on. I already know my next target has muskets; I'd like to at least get cavalry & cannon to offset. I've got one successful army & the MA nearly done, but I can't see launching an invasion with a massive fleet of galleys; I want galleons at least to make army transport easier. that means quite a few techs on the tree. the outcome shouldn't be in doubt; I already have 68% of the population & 32% of the land. The question is how quickly can I do it. It's turn 219 right now. Turn 300 seems out of reach, but maybe 100 turns from now is doable.

As for the earlier comment on artillery: yes, I cut my teeth on the Panzer General series where Wespes, Hummels, & even more so, sIG IIs are more useful than anything but a Panther & where the biggest problem is forcing a river crossing against a city defended by infantry, backed by 3-range arty, & covered with 3-range AA fire. *Very* tough nut to crack without hopeless losses. even before that, SSI's Kampfgruppe, where I once delivered a perfect TOT salvo against tank-riding Soviet infantry (brushed 'em off, then the computer let the tanks ride into a concentric 360 degree AT fire sack--lots of fun ). And even before that, the best of 'em all: PZK on PLATO at Shampoo-Banana, for which I wrote a few scenarios that made the final cut. Give me a game with arty, and I know where I am right away

 

[Snarkhunter]

Well, I finished up last night on turn 267, 1380ad: earliest I've won a game & much earlier than I thought possible. When I attacked the Byzzies, they crumbled so quickly I just proceeded to the Vikings & then ended things with a 2 turn ROP rape of the Babs. So I was probably too cautious in getting set for the final blitz. OTOH, I needed cavalry & lots of it. The helpful advice I received here undoubtedly shortened the game by many turns & I think I'm beginning to get the hang of the rapid initial expansion phase, though with some kinks to work out. I'm almost ready for regent, except there are other things I want to explore first. Cultural flipping for example; it annoyed me so much the first few games I turned it off. but judging from other comments, the game dimension it adds is probably worth keeping. So I'll play with it a bit, too.

Thanx again, all.

 

[RFHolloway]

Oh yes - cultural fliping is good - particularly if you are going for 100k because the cities then flip to you! If the city is a significanr flip risk, just station your military outside it as then you won't lose it if it flips, and you will be able to retake it straight away.

 

[Delphi456]

Don't wait to move up - do it now! Regent is not that tough if you focus on: workers, settlers, swords, horsemen, cats. The only time you should consider temples is for stopping culture flips. Avoid building wonders - you'll expand much faster.

 

[Lord Templar]

I am a scientific civguy. all the time my science is up to 90%. I almost always use it for science or rush a wonder that im in a competition to build first. In the anceint time use the SGL for a wonder(Pyramids would be best) but in the middle ages and industrial times use him for sceince. If you get one in the modern times use him for sceince too. Science is what sets us your civ apart in the game. More tech means better units , better govts , and better wonders and more.