Best way to alter Earth Map leaders/Terrain

[madscientist]

As inspired by Neal's King of the World I have played alot of the leaders in order, currently up to CAtherine and onto the New World. Once done I am looking to modify Earth civilizations and look for some advice on how to go best set up the map.

Some of my ideas

1) Add Sury in South East Asia to hinder Qin. Eliminate Saladin

2) Swap Genghis with Kublai. No one is more a fan of Genghis than myself, but I think Creative Kublai would cramp Qin's game more.

3) Redo Europe:

A) Add Joao at Lisbon and remove Isabella.

B) Remove the French totally, having Europe less crowded and giving London some breathing room. Swap Liz for Churchill making Great Britain hard to take over.

C) Replace Germany with Ragnar in Scandenavia.

D) Replace Alexander with mehmed in Anatolia. Mehmed is always a tough AI and perhaps a good threat.

E) Keep Rome and Russia the same.

This should give Rome a good chance to expand and be a force, while Mehmed would be a road block. Ragnar would be a threat to Cathy. Joao is the wildcard ehre, not sure what he does.

3) Eliminate Persia and Add Shaka in south Africa. Thus Hatty and Mansa have a threat in the south while Asoka has room to expand westernly until he meets the Ottomans and Russians.

4) New World: I would like to have 4 leaders here

A) Keep Hyuna but break a hole in the Andes to settle the Amazon. Keep the mountain in Panama.

B) Replace Roosevelt with Washington, as Washington is a better war-monger

C) Add Sitting Bull in the Mid-west.

D) Keep Monty, CIV is boring without him.

So a summary of proposed leaders

1) Qin, as is

2) Kublai replacing Genghis and perhaps moving settler 1 tile east to get both sheep and horses.

3) Add Sury at Bangkok. Eliminate Cyrus

4) Keep Toku as is.

5) Keep Asoka as is.

6) Add Mehmed at Constantinople, remove Alexander.

7) Keep Russia as is.

8) Add Shaka in south Africa, remove Saladin.

9) Keep Mansa

10) Keep Egypt, but would Ramese or Hatty be a better fit here???

11) Keep Rome as is.

12) Eliminate Germany and add Ragnar in Scandenavia.

13) Replace landlocked Isabella and add Joao at Lisbon.

14) Replace Liz with CHurchill.

15) Add Sitting Bull in the mid-west and remove France.

16) Keep Monty as is.

17) Keep Nyuna as is but break a hole in teh Anders.

18) Replace Roosevelt with Washington.

This leaves us with 2 leaders starting with mysticism (Asoka and Monty). This may be a problem although it is rare for those leaders to start hording all religions like Isabella does.

IND is limited to, noone (pending Ramesses.)

We have 3 insane war-mongers now, Monty, Shaka, Ragnar, and 2 lose cannons in Kublai and Julius.

Just some food for thought and to start the discussion!

 

[Lone Wolf]

Enlarge Europe, it's more fun.

 

[UWHabs]

I'd also alter terrain. I know somewhere (maybe in the KOTW discussion thread), someone mentioned of a greening up of Africa. I think that certainly would help make it not so useless.

Also, I think North America needs to be beefed up a bit. Why there are no cattle on the prairies, I don't know. I understand the whole limit resources to one continent or the other, but nothing wrong with a bit of overlap. That makes the prairies a real production powerhouse, and would certainly help the Americas.

I'd also beef up South America. Throw a few bananas in the Amazon so it's not such a wasteland. Throw a few more fish off the coasts so that HS gets some decent land.

I also agree with opening up the land, letting HC access the Amazon. Otherwise he's always so pathetic and nobody settles the Amazon until late (although I guess that's not the most insane part of the game).

For Mad's changes, HC is industrious, and I would make sure one of the mainland leaders is as well. Maybe in that case putting Rameses in would make sense.

Otherwise, Europe is still crowded. Even with Joao in, not sure if he'd do well unless if he went to settle North Africa as well. I might even be tempted to drop the English, and put the Persians back in. Or what about keeping England, but starting Joao in Brasil? Put a bit more seafood there, and we might see a decent new world after all?

But really, the map needs to be modified. Europe and China are just too powerful for the rest of the world.

 

[Gagonite]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12049

Try out this one I made. It plays out quite a bit differently than your average Earth 18 lol. Kublai Khan can sometimes become a beast on this one, he's alot better at his economy than ol' Genghis. And with the European squeeze gone a bit, some of those AI can do better, especially Alexander. Napoleon's sometimes a force to be reckoned with too.

 

[madscientist]

Gagonite, I like those changes you made although no Rome or egpyt may be to much for me.

I forgot about Hannibal and perhaps he would be an interesting addition over Mansa. Both tech well but Hannibal would definitely be an obstacle to Roman and Zulu expansion.

I also like the idea of spreading some resources around, especially the North American Plains and the Amazon.

If I add Ramesse, that's three IND leaders (error in my OP) in Qin, Ramesses, Inca which is three different world locations.

I am still a little uncertain about religions, three start with Mysticism (HC, Monty, Asoka). How abotu Charlemagne dead center in Europe to replace Rome? He may have some dicey land, but his starting techs are lousy, he will likely go after an early religion, and will be the only leader in the area to NOT start on a coast (England, CArthage, Portugal, Ottomans, Vikings). His zealotish nature replaces that lost from Isabella, and he builds ALOT of units to combat the leaders on the edges.

The Celts are an interesting idea, perhaps in central Britain to replace England??? It would add another potential European religion.

 

[Kadazzle]

Beef up Australia, put Willem there for a good AI + good late game potential.

 

[Fleme]

Take a look at my Earth18 (in my sig)

It's by no means perfect but it's a big overhaul from the original earth18 and includes various terrain improvements and balances - focusing on making more positions competitive in the big picture.

Leaders featured are Victoria, Charlemagne, Joao II, Ragnar, Mehmed, Hammurabi, Hannibal, Cyrus, Shaka, Mansa Musa, Zara Yaqob, Suryavarman II, Wang Kon, Kublai Khan, Tokugawa, Huayna Capac, Montezuma and Sitting Bull (Cahokia relocated to where it should be)

And yes, Tokugawa still sucks. On average, this map makes Cyrus the default top dog given that he has his lands and the subcontinent of India (Sury doesn't act fast eventhough his start is pretty sweet on the map) followed by Joao, Charlemagne, Ragnar, Kublai and ZY. All in all terrain is more habitable all around and most improvements have been located in areas that need them the most such as South America and Africa

 

[madscientist]

JFLeme, Nice changes. One question is that you say you used the map that ships with BTS. For me I have to look in the folder from the Classic Vanilla folder as that is the save that runs in the scenario (at least that's the one I changed for the Picard RPC). When I open it in word there are alot less changes to make. Forgive my ignorance but I am noted for fouling up these changes.

I like the mix of leaders there although there seams to be a big hole without Qin. Zara/Hannibal/Mansa are an interesting mix in Africa. My guess is that America is still behind the times.

 

[Fleme]

I'm by no means an expert in making maps as this one is my first and I did it fully on the guidance I received on this forum.

The base for the map is the one that came with BtS - Earth18.

Rebalancing Africa by making the entire continent more habitable and rich allows Mansa, ZY and Shaka all to become competitive although there are occasionally some twists here.

Knowing Shaka, he will either go for ZY or Mansa and depending on the outcome, there's usually atleast one african superpower. Hannibal is somewhat slow in comparison and I've had times where Joao settled in northern africa before he did and there's no good explanation for this since his start isn't that bad (it's among the worst on the map but it's not so bad that you'd expect him to fail settling the prime locations set up for him).

The hole left by Qin is soon replaced by KK. He usually aggressively settles towards China proper and Wang is actually no slouch either. While WK doesn't get huge, he sets up a nice empire with 7-9 good cities and for a Fin leader that's just fine. Given the nature of KK and the terrain available to him, he usually fills the slot for an eastern superpower and I've had times where his block consisted of himself, WK, Toku and Sury. Combine that with a fat Cyrus in the middle and reasonably equally powerful european empires and you have a nice game.

Joao is actually a lot of fun to have on this map because of his rexing tendencies. He ships settlers all over the place and I actually set his capital on a plains hill so that he wouldn't be stuck in iberia while burger would block him in. So, in terms of early prod Joao outrexes Burger, so they both stand a chance at becoming the real european power.

I digress.

The way I made the map is I fired up BtS, ran a random map with the leaders I wanted and then wb saved it. Then I took the leaders from the file through notepad and replaced the earth18 leaders with them and then I relocated their start locations to where they should be.

After saving, my map went to this location:

C:\Documents and Settings\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Saves\WorldBuilder

I'm not sure if I got your question right but I hope this helps.

Edit: Your Star Trek RPC would've been much more fun for yourself on my map as Australia is improved

 

[madscientist]

Edit: Your Star Trek RPC would've been much more fun for yourself on my map as Australia is improved

Thanks for the help, I will likely play around here.

If my RPC fails, I will likely retry it, perhaps using your save. But for now I am real interested to see how the base Australia map plays out.

 

[Fleme]

I'd be honored to see my map featured in your extremely entertaining series. Thumbs up either way - I'll be following as usual.

 

[Frankthetank]

I always thought Australia had far too many mountains on it when the highest peak is only 7000 ft. More of them should likely be hills.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Enlarged Europe is here, btw.

 

[Supp]

Instead of putting Shaka in South Africa, put someone in Australia and make it suck less. Then go to Africa and put some food resources in the rainforest, and give Mansa Musa some decent land.

 

[Harv]

I would like to see what comes of this.

Question: How many of you think there are too many resources on the Earth18 map and how many do you think might be more appropriate? Also, how many civilizations are appropriate for this map? (I have the number 12 in mind.)

Here are my suggestions:

1. Europe could do with fewer civilizations and a bit of resource rebalancing. This is because the AI is somewhat disfunctional in a crowded situation and if you are a European player, then the game is a manner of rushing Europe.

2. I know people do not like the idea of connecting the Iberian peninsula to Africa and closing off the Mediterranean Sea, but history shows migrations and invasions between those regions. It would also make a Carthage vs Rome scenario more viable.

3. I am thinking a Classical Civilizations version featuring the following:
a. Celts (NOTE ADDED: located at Paris)
b. Rome
c. Greece
d. Carthage
e. Egypt
f. Babylon
g. Persia
h. India
i. China
j. Korea
k. Native Americans
l. Mayans
(maybe replace Babylon or Persia with a New World Civ)

I might take a stab at this again if I get some opinions on how many resources there really should be on Earth for a balanced game.

EDIT: 100th post!

 

[Rubbaduck]

That is a pretty good list, but I don't know if it would be cool not to have ANYONE in the main body of Europe. Maybe Charly to grab a religion in there as well?

So my suggestion would be:
EUROPE:
1. Rome, (no preference)
2. HRE, Charlemagne, Prague or Frankfurt area
3. Spain/Portugal, coastal.
4. Russia, Catherine, Maybe in St. Petersburg.
5. England, (no preference)

MIDDLE EAST:

a)
5. Arabia, Saladin
6. Sumeria, Gilgamesh, Babylon/Baghdad region

OR

b)
5. Ottomans, Mehmed, Istanbul site
6. Persia, (no preference)

AFRICA:
7. Mali, Mansa
8. Egypt, Hatty
9. Ethiopia, Zara

ASIA:
11. China, (no preference)
12. Korea/Mongolia, Kublai if Mongolia
13. Japan, Toku
14. Khmer/India
- India for Middle East A and and Khmer for B

NEW WORLD:
15. America, Washington
16. Native America, Sitting Bull, Midwest area
17. Aztec/Maya, Meso-America
18. Inca, Removed mountains

 

[madscientist]

Thanks for the help guys, especialliy JFleme for the directions.

I set this up as follows:

Land:
eliminate the Panama Mountain, add a hill
open Somalia up by replacing a mountin with a hill
Added a hill in teh Andes to open the Incas to the Amazon. Added a few bananas here.
Added some cows in North America

My final civilizations


AFRICA
1) Ramesses in traditional Thebes
2) Hannibal in Tunisia, west of the sheep.
3) Shaka on the east coast of southern Africa

Europe:
4) Joaoa at Lisbon area
5) Charlemagne between PAris and Berlin site
6) Mehmed II at Constantinople
7) Cathy is unchanged (her backstabbing ways aretoo good to eliminate)
8) Ragnar in Sweden near the deer/beaver/copper/iron area
9) Chuchill at London's usualy spot

Asia
10) Asoka as usual
11) Toku as usual
12) Qin as usual
13) Kublai instead of Genghis and I put the settler 1 east to carch both sheep in the capital.
14) Sury in southern cambodia, south of the Jumbos and stone.

America
15) Kept Hyuna as is
16) Kept Monty as is
17) Replaced Roosevelt with washington and kept as is
18) Sitting Bull directly in teh Mid-West with some newly added cows.

I ran a few early test games playing as Ramesses. All leaders settle pretty well.

Kublai hems in Qin nicely in the North and Sury contains his southern expansion. Qin can settle a little outside of China but will have to fight a few tough wars to reach a level he get's in earth-18.

The middle east is wide open for Ottoman and Egyptian settlement although Asoka seams to stay on the subcontinent. I may consider putting either Babylon or Summeria in Mesopetania, just not sure who to take out.

Hannibal seams to be the worse as he settles towards the desert in the south, although he was settling in the Nigeria region. This may be due to me settling Rameses on the mediteranian coast. Given Hannibals usual techpace and agressive nature this may work out later. As Ramesses I just settled 4 cities on the Nile. Shaka seamed content to stay in the sotuh although it is scarey how fast he get's copper and axes/impis. For this reason I still like the idea of an open Middle east to give Egypt a chance to settle the copper between Mesopetania and the Caucus.

In America Hyuna still expands the same slow way. Monty claims northern mexica/southwest America and actually goes after californis. SB and Washington seam to try to outsellte each other and I assume there will be hard feeling there as neither leader is easy to get pleased.

Europe: Cathy still settles westward infringing on the Ottomans and Ragnar. Ragnar took all Scandinavia pretty quickly. Joao was in fact cut off quickly by Charlemagne, I forsee the battle of Imperialistic leaders here (plus Cathy). England seams to expand a bit faster under Churchill and without the cutlure pressure of Paris.

All in all I pleased for now although Hannibal is a bit of a concern.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Frankthetank]

Though it's been brought up before, the Incas should be moved to the Buenos Aires area. Though there will be limited contact initially with the rest of the civilizations, it gives them a real chance to develop and expand, building a real civilization that's not hemmed in by the Andes and Amazon basin. An alternative could be to move the Native Americans down there leaving the incas in peru since there were native tribes in that region.

 

[Rubbaduck]

IMO having Shaka in South Africa is a bit of a waste. He's just too far from anyone to do what he does best before history repeats itself and his Impis will go against riflemen. Hannibal's starting area is also pretty crappy, just a kinda good capital and desert. AFAIK the AI doesn't like settling desert so he'll just keep going for the jungles and get crippled by Saharan raiders.

tl;dr Africa needs a revamp, more resources on the western mediterranean coast.

 

[Bezurn]

Nice additions to the map. I did some modifying of the original earth 18 map myself. One thing I decided to do was give everyone one more free tech to start the game. Usually it was the wheel, or agriculture or what not, but for those nations that start on islands I gave them sailing. Since they need to spend extra hammers to settle new land usually I thought that would help some. Maybe I should have given them just a free boat instead?