Best way to counter enemy spies?

[Bestbank Tiger]

I know a Courthouse makes cities less vulnerable to bribery (and Democracy eliminates the possibility altogether).

But how do you keep spies from stealing technology? I had a huge problem with that in the GOTM. Is a spy in each city a good defense, or do you have to be lucky enough to see them in advance?

 

[Ace]

The only sure way to stop them is to spot them and kill them before they get near your cities. If you have a pair of vet spies fortified in a city it reduces the chances of sucess, but does not completely stop a spy from stealing tech.

 

[Peaster]

Why not just let them steal a few techs ? Especially if you are at peace, and want an excuse to declare war without hurting your rep. Most good players give away lots of tech anyway - to adjust AI attitudes, or for tech bombing, tech slavery or to promote their key civ. It is pretty rare that the AI uses those techs effectively against you.

If I am at war, I am usually pushing at the AI cities rather than vice-versa, so the dips don't usually get close enough to steal. I am more afraid that they might bribe back a city I've just taken - but it almost never happens. Anyway, if a hostile AI wastes a dip on tech-theft, I am usually OK with that.

 

[geofelt]

My best strategy is to bribe the spy/dip. If you do not have a unit available to do this, build one asap. In the meantime, expel them. The closer the AI is to you, the faster the spy will come back. The cost may seem high, but you will avoid the aggravation, and gain another spy. The ai will usually not build a replacement.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

But how do you keep spies from stealing technology?

Win the game before the AI learns espionage :rimshot:

 

[Rowan]

I do what Ace says; kill them before they do harm!

 

[IMBC2]

Is it possible to "catch" an AI diplomat/spy stealing your technology when you have 2-3 spies stationed within your city?

I have noticed (especially when doing the "failed spaceship time-warp experiment" with Cheat Mode test) that if an AI Civ feels that it is waaaaaaaaaay behind me in all of the population, military, and tech categories that it will focus on building diplomats to steal my technologies.

(For reference to the above experiment, use this link )

And that being the case in the most extreme way in that "AD 1287 - Dragsville" game, being that I had already been able to launch a spaceship and all, the AI Civs tend to steal the Space Flight, Plastics, or Superconductor technologies (all of which would allow them to build spaceship parts of their own). I guess that makes sense since that would be the best shot they have at winning the game at that point.

Tech stealing did not seem too harmful to me at first, but I then realized that the AI Civ that steals it can easily bond with other AI Civs by gifting/trading their newfound techs to each other and level the playing field a little better which is definitely NOT a good thing for my Civ.

So, without further beating around the bush, these are my questions (and I have the United Nations wonder):

1) If an AI Civ sent a diplomat to one of my cities but failed to do what he
was trying to do because of my spies (counterespionage) in that city, will I get a message saying that the AI Civ's diplomat was caught trying to do something bad in that city?

2) On several occasions, I have seen an AI diplomat get into one of my cities but no message appeared after the diplomat went in. Does this mean my counterespionage neutralized any harmful intents of that AI diplomat? Or is it possible that he was able to destroy one of my city improvements, sabotage my production, or poison my water supply? Given that I have United Nations, I am pretty sure that he did not steal a tech or else I would have gotten the message that "Sioux acquire (insert tech name here) from the Americans."

 

[Ace]

Strange. Whenever the AI dips do something to one of your cities your susposed to get a message about it, and, if your at peace, get the option to declare war for its nasty act. IIRC, when/if your spies foil an AI dip, you also get a message telling you about it.

 

[Magic_gorter]

I never experienced a diplomat is entering my city without getting a message. The only thing I can think of is that the diplomat is investigating your city. We have also that option and it is an harmless option (no war).

 

[IMBC2]

Well, hopefully, magic_gorter is right in that the AI dip just wanted to investigate my city as I really did get no message once the dip went in.

But however, I must now take a few minutes to thank all who have taken the time to help me including Elephant_U, Ace, Duke of Marlbrough, Nick_G, and everyone else who answered my questions and participated in threads started by me.

As most of you know, Civilization II is quite an addictive game, and I have had the great fortune of getting the time to play and enjoy it quite thoroughly, but the great misfortune of having the game negatively affect my work performance. (Oh, I can remember the numerous times that I daydreamed at work about how I can best take over that next city, what kind of new improvements I can build, where to locate my next town, what new trade routes I can establish, ways to protect cities that I have just taken over from quick liberation by the enemy, ways to protect against bribery and tech theft.... I could go on and on and on...)

This is the reason why I am now hanging up my Reverend's hat on my glorious Fundamentalist American civilization and any computer game in general for at least a year (real time) so that I can get both my personal and work life back together again.

So, from Texas, I bid you all farewell...

Thanks again to all who have given me helpful posts here!

... and if anyone ever finds out if sabotaging your own launched spaceship really does give you more turns before forced retirement sans Cheat Mode, then by all means, post your findings in that thread as I'm sure many are willing to know, and I'll probably be back here a year from now to read about it

Happy Civving everyone!

 

[Millman]

I guess it is annoying when there are a couple times you can't 'expell' them.

 

[MikeLynch]

I am 99% positive that when a dip does something to your city and no message pops up, it's just investigating. I say that b/c there is no "Enemy Diplomats Investigate (City)!" dialog box.

As to your main question, any city of mine along a border with another civ is so likely to have overlapping resource squares that I will usually have fortified two diplomats on those squares to secure the resource for myself without prompting the AI to demand my withdrawal (since Dips aren't military units). I'll just use them as my first line of defense against enemy Dips. I also do try to build up a pretty good supply of Dips in my cities.

But normally, my actual process is this:
1- Watch helplessly as the enemy Dip descends on my city.
2- Screech angrily as the enemy Dip steals the very tech I didn't want his civ to have.
3- Annihilate said civ, as punishment.

 

[Stegyre]

I am 99% positive that when a dip does something to your city and no message pops up, it's just investigating. I say that b/c there is no "Enemy Diplomats Investigate (City)!" dialog box.

Here's my reservation with this reasoning: we know, from past research, that what is hidden to the human player is NOT hidden to the AI: the ai civs know where your cities are, where your units are (and apparently what units), etc. The ai's knowledge is simplisitc (it knows what cities don't have an sdi, but it never bothers to check whether a neighboring city has it), but reasonably complete.

So . . . why, on earth, would an ai ever need (or want) to "investigate" a city? That it never occurs seems a more likely explanation for the absence of the box.

That being said, I don't have an explanation for what the dip. is doing. Perhaps its just a private, personal tryst?

 

[Ace]

Who knows what the AI does? I do know that I have seen AI dips enter a city of mine and nothing happens, no message, no activity, no nothing. It could be that the AI is trying to bribe the city but does not have enough coins to pull it off, or maybe the AI does not know what advances you have and is checking to see if it can steal one. Maybe it is programmed to investigate a city...?

 

[Millman]

I remember that happening once. I think diplomats dissapear after one use. Wait, I think it established an embassy.

 

[MikeLynch]

So . . . why, on earth, would an ai ever need (or want) to "investigate" a city? That it never occurs seems a more likely explanation for the absence of the box.

Good point. Perhaps they programmed in the behavior to give the ai more of an appearance of following the same rules as the humans

Or, just as probably, it's a failed attempt at *some*thing (bribing, tech-stealing, etc.) -- I suppose the ai nations I've played against might just as frequently wonder why I sometimes have Dips/Spies visit their cities and do nothing.

 

[Millman]

Spies costs no resources, nor do them seem to make any citizens unhappy in the game. So you can produce all you want and have them everywhere near the enemy civilization. Put them in forest, on mountains, and near roads with easy access to cities, and once and a while, use your enemies roads to see if any dipolmats or other spies are coming for you. But you probably already do this.

It's basically a spy to spy battle. Even if they are a democracy, you have the sabotage option.