Beta 13

[merijn_v1]

I see Vinland as a UHV and flavor colony -- not something that can benefit Human player. Lets make something that alludes to the historical reality. 1 Wine -- for most probable source for the name Vinland, 1 Thimber -- since settlers in Greenland sailed Westward in the search of wood, 1 Ivory -- since you get to the Vinland via Greenland and Greenland settlers traded Ivory. Potato is Mesoamerican/ SouthAmerican food.

P.S. We could help AI and flip Iceland to Norse if their ship sight Iceland -- kinda like Rhye helped Spain with Conquistador events.

If you drop the Ivory of the Vinland Colony, I'm fine with it. (So 1 Wine and 1 Timber)

 

[Tigranes]

Well we always have 3 resources from the Colony (not counting the Access ones). 2 Wines than? But what is wrong with Ivory?

The people of Greenland likely traded narwhal ivory amongst themselves prior to any contact with Europeans. For hundreds of years since, the tusks have from Greenland to international markets.
In the 1600, the Dutch traded with the Inuit, typically for metal goods in exchange for narwhal tusks, seal skins, and other items.
Trading continues today between Greenland and other countries, with Denmark by far being the leading purchaser.

 

[ezzlar]

Vinland is north america, right? Wine doesnt feel right.

Timber, furs, ivory, amber would be more appropriate.

 

[merijn_v1]

Well we always have 3 resources from the Colony (not counting the Access ones). 2 Wines than? But what is wrong with Ivory?

Iceland already has 2 ivory resources. I think it's useless to give Vinland a ivory resource too.

I think that Vinland is different from the other colonies. It also comes much earlier so I think it should be less powerful as the others.

 

[3Miro]

Here is something for the name and wine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinland

Vinland should not be as powerful as other colonies, it comes much earlier and it is much cheaper. We should have 1 wine and 1 something else. I wish we can make it something exotic that doesn't exist in Europe (tobacco or potatoes), but Ivory (associate with Greenland) is also good. Timber may work as well.

 

[Sian]

Ezzlar ... noone have said that Wine, have to be from grapevines ... it could just as well just have been fermented berries (raspberries, blackberries and the like) which the Norse found and knew that they could make into alcohol

 

[rrosen]

Etymological curiosities: 3Miro's link refers to "vinber", which is pronounced identically to the current Swedish word "vinbär", which in English can be for example Blackcurrant (and grow in northern climate).

Timber was a driving force to continue exploration beyond Greenland - but could be gathered from Markland (=Labrador). If we take Vinland to refer to the more Southern, warmer part and the hypothetical situation should Norse settlement continue, I think corn is a good crop to have in addition to wine. It seemed to have been widespread in AD 1000, as opposed to potatoes, which were not grown outside of South American by then according to wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_Exchange

 

[AbsintheRed]

Vinland is north america, right? Wine doesnt feel right.

Ezzlar ... noone have said that Wine, have to be from grapevines ... it could just as well just have been fermented berries (raspberries, blackberries and the like) which the Norse found and knew that they could make into alcohol

From the Wiki article:
The earliest etymology of "Vinland" is found in Adam of Bremen's 11th Century Latin Descriptio insularum Aquilonis ("Description of the Northern Islands"): "Moreover, he has also reported one island discovered by many in that ocean, which is called Winland, for the reason that grapevines grow there by themselves, producing the best wine."

 

[AbsintheRed]

Etymological curiosities: 3Miro's link refers to "vinber", which is pronounced identically to the current Swedish word "vinbär", which in English can be for example Blackcurrant (and grow in northern climate).

Timber was a driving force to continue exploration beyond Greenland - but could be gathered from Markland (=Labrador). If we take Vinland to refer to the more Southern, warmer part and the hypothetical situation should Norse settlement continue, I think corn is a good crop to have in addition to wine. It seemed to have been widespread in AD 1000, as opposed to potatoes, which were not grown outside of South American by then according to wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_Exchange

Indeed, potatoe won't really work, but I can imagine corns
We already have it in the mod, so we can also add a few appearing corn resources in Europe in the early 17th century

 

[3Miro]

Indeed, potatoe won't really work, but I can imagine corns
We already have it in the mod, so we can also add a few appearing corn resources in Europe in the early 17th century

If we already have corn, then we should give it as resource to Vinland. I think it is the most natural thing for the Norse to trade with the natives in America.

 

[Tigranes]

Norse were not trading with Natives. All the Viking saga talk about bad relationships which caused abandonment of the colony. As you said -- wanted but not succeeded can be applied to the very concept of founding colony Vinland. For the rest of the effects lets make it somewhat historical.

During the 1st millennium AD, maize cultivation spread from Mexico into the U.S. Southwest and during the following millennium into the U.S. Northeast and southeastern Canada, transforming the landscape as Native Americans cleared large forest and grassland areas for the new crop

So circa 1000AD corn was not widely cultivated in the present days Canada or New England. Again human player would finish the game before he could rip any benefits from Vinland and it would serve aesthetic purposes mainly. For that same purposes I suggest to give Vinland the resources that are reflected in the amazing story of Vikings discovering America. You don't get to Vinland from Iceland, first you need to get to Greenland, then Labrador, then Vinland.

Ivory -- for the fact that they got there via Greenland (why would 3 Ivory really bother anyone? it's historical: Norse did trade ivory),
Timber -- for the fact that Greenland settlers sailed West looking for wood
Wine -- for the probable cause of the name Vinland

Corn is currently never appears in the mod (even though it could be in the code) -- and frankly we don't need yet another resource, sometimes I feel like we have way too many resources for 12 civs that usually alive (in average, especially during the late games).


Also would be nice to see AI building Vinland once in a while -- what do you guys think about my idea of "Conquistador event" for Norse if their ship manage to sight Iceland?

And anyways , why do we spend so much attention on this when we have much less aesthetic issues to resolve (see my Swedish report plz)?

 

[Feyaria]

I got a great scientist named TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_CHRITOPHER_POLHEM. It seems there is an S missing......

Edit: Another one: TXT_KEYGREAT_PERSON_SVEN_FORKBEARD

 

[AbsintheRed]

I got a great scientist named TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_CHRITOPHER_POLHEM. It seems there is an S missing......

Edit: Another one: TXT_KEYGREAT_PERSON_SVEN_FORKBEARD

Thanks, it will be fixed on my next svn commit

@Tigranes: Will answer your swedish report tomorrow. Thanks for making such a detailed feedback, keep up with it

 

[civ_king]

The whale 1N3W of Tanja can never be covered by culture due to being too far offshore. Also the whale far north of Leon can never be in a BFC (you'd have to put a city on the mountain!).

Could you move the Eastern Icelandic Whales 1SW?

 

[AbsintheRed]

The whale 1N3W of Tanja can never be covered by culture due to being too far offshore. Also the whale far north of Leon can never be in a BFC (you'd have to put a city on the mountain!).

Could you move the Eastern Icelandic Whales 1SW?

All those are intentional
You cannot always have perfect city spots inland either

 

[civ_king]

All those are intentional
You cannot always have perfect city spots inland either

Wait, so you intentional put a whale in game that can never be harvested? That's sadistic.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Another question: I've seen this message back in beta 12:

TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_HARALD_HARDRADA

now looking into the unitinfos xml there's nothing different than with other general names.
(found
<Class>UNITCLASS_GREAT_GENERAL</Class>
<Type>UNIT_GREAT_GENERAL</Type>
<UniqueNames>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_HARALD_HARDRADA</UniqueName>
and nothing elsewhere)
maybe the problem is that there's a civ leader with the same name?

Fixed this too

 

[AbsintheRed]

Wait, so you intentional put a whale in game that can never be harvested? That's sadistic.

Actually most of those were put on the map this way before I joined the mod
Added by St. Lucifer maybe?
I already changed a couple of these resources to be accessible (there were more), but I also don't think it's a problem to have a few this way
It means you don't get extra food or production, but can still grab the resource for your civ if the culture expands enough

 

[civ_king]

Actually most of those were put on the map this way before I joined the mod
Added by St. Lucifer maybe?
I already changed a couple of these resources to be accessible (there were more), but I also don't think it's a problem to have a few this way
It means you don't get extra food or production, but can still grab the resource for your civ if the culture expands enough

It's three tiles offshore, it can never be grabbed

 

[AbsintheRed]

It's three tiles offshore, it can never be grabbed

Oh, that one near Tanja is a mistake then
All the others can be grabbed IIRC