Beta 7.2.3 Comments

[Txurce]

I like most of the changes. I have questions regarding:

1. Explorers - given their purpose, why not call them "Scouts" or "Recon"?

2. China now makes more gold, but its GG advantage is all but gone (a fast spawn rate soon leads only to short GA's). I think this makes them less distinctive - and with the Chu-Ko-nu siege nerf, they are militarily weaker than ever. I would go back to something more like the dev's original intent: a potent, well-financed military machine.

3. WWGD - this is an interesting change that promises to make the AI more distinct... but I worry about the potency of early AI rushes (vs both the human player and peaceful AI).

 

[black213]

In my opinion China's SA should be totally changed. Faster GG spawns don't mean anything since if you are going to warmonger, you will take the free GG from the Honor tree.

 

[Thalassicus]

Explorers are in the same category as lancers and anti-tank guns, which don't really fit the name of "recon."

The problem with direct bonuses is it makes combat even easier than it already is. China has traditionally been my favorite militaristic civ, tied with Mongolia after that DLC was released. I find combat with both of them way too easy though, and I like challenging games, so I've intentionally been making things harder for myself by shifting combat bonuses to other bonuses. Faster GG spawning gives production and gold bonuses from war, which is useful for conquest games.

 

[Txurce]

The problem with direct combat bonuses is it makes combat even easier than it already is.

I realize this, and agree that the ideal is something that would also benefit the AI, and maybe the GG-sight proposal is at least part of the answer. But when the result is making a civ notably less fun... and there are other OP military civs out three like the Mongols... I would reconsider the nerf.

 

[Thalassicus]

I wouldn't say the Mongols are overpowered, if my strategy guide gave that impression. They're challenging and fun but I find China easier because CKNs are so crazy. It's why I've reduced the strength of China several times since release.

 

[Txurce]

I wouldn't say the Mongols are overpowered, if my strategy guide gave that impression. They're challenging and fun but I find China easier because CKNs are so crazy.

That's good to know. The ride up-fire-ride back routine... so familiar to me from the old pre-siege nerf War Chariot days... made me imagine the Mongols were easy. Thinking about it some more, I imagine that moving them about safely and effectively is, yes, challenging and therefore fun.

 

[Thalassicus]

The hard part is if they're ever attacked in melee they're instakilled, so tactics are focused on keeping them safe. Most other leaders don't have this to worry about as much with their front-line units.

 

[Seek]

I always use iron units with cover as a front line with the mongols, with some sort of flanker to spot on the sides. The rear is all my dominated territory, so that's less of a worry.

The mongols are one of my favorite civs but they are dangerously close to being overpowered.

 

[Txurce]

The mongols are one of my favorite civs but they are dangerously close to being overpowered.

I have never played them because I assumed they were OP. That's why I keep whining about buffing the Chinese. But thanks to Thal's guide, I'm looking forward to playing the Mongols.

So many civs, and so little time. Actually, plenty of time, just too many good civs now!