Beta 9 Talk

[Mekajiki]

Is Hungary's UHV broken? This was beta 8 but I didn't notice it in the changes. I was smooth sailing with 2/3 goals completed and just waiting until 1490 for the Victory screen. In ~1520 I noticed that it was way past 1490 yet I hadn't failed the goal or completed it yet. I checked it and I had the largest landmass when I finally bothered to look and had the largest land area when I checked in ~1450. It's possible that I could have failed but if so then it should have officially "failed me".

I'm guessing that it isn't checking correctly.

 

[Veshta]

I think you copied some independent AI into that of the Norse. All games so far they send a swarm of workers out to build roads to the most obscure places

 

[Daffy]

I think you copied some independent AI into that of the Norse. All games so far they send a swarm of workers out to build roads to the most obscure places

sounds like the behavior of workers/units towards partially 'unknown' territory

 

[Caliom]

- Arabia survives loss of Sour and Jerusalem now. Is that intentional?

I hated the constantly collapsing and respawning of arabia. This way you couldnt get good trade relations with the arabs, and conquering jerusalem wasnt that much fun too, because you didnt have to worry about defending jerusalem against the arabs at all. If they survive it makes the struggle in the holy land more challenging. I'd like to see them loosing only some cities and not collapsing completly more often.

- Bulgaria is a strange one, he has a 50/50 chance of becoming a powerhouse so far, guessing it depends in Byzanz ability to hold back the muslims.

Byzanz was very strong in my recent games. Bulgaria never had a chance against them. They even survived the ottoman invasion and nailed them down to two cities

- Kiev is scary when he gets up to speed but tends to fare poorly against the infinite Keshiks so all is well.

Kiev either dies or growth very strong. I dont mind if they survive the keshiks, but in my last game they declared war on the russians upon spawing and brought havoc among them. The russians had abut eight cities but all level three size because they had no chance to connect their ressources.
I think this is a generaly problem of the mod, that health heavily depends on resources.
Btw. Austria has only two health resources: salt and wheat. I think this is the major reasson why they suck so much when they fail in conquering hungary.

 

[The Flame8]

The health is related to what happened in the middle ages. The cities were unhealthy so it makes sense. It isn't amazing for gameplay but it is realistic, and a part of European history. It is kind of like the plague, it is really annoying in game, but it is historically accurate.

 

[yogiebere]

Just played as spain, as it was possible this time! I had just enough time window to conuqer into burgundy (who i chose to target), lots of protestants to chose from, it was probably a 40% religion by the end.

Things I noticed: LOTS of independents. Kiev, Byzantium, Bulgaria, and Arabia all collapsed as the same time (Kiev and Bulgaria on the same turn even) That was intense.

Burgundy was actually holding its own, good to see. They were able to compete scientifically.

England kept Calais, good to see.

The timing for killing cordoba is good, I get papal help now. It still is difficult to take out the crossbows, but thats not really that big of a deal in the big scheme of things.

It's looking great. Venezia and Genoa still as weak as ever, Genoa doesnt take palermo... Otherwise no complaints, it's nearing excellent

 

[civ_king]

Ivory on Tundra hills yields no food unimproved

 

[merijn_v1]

Ivory on Tundra hills yields no food unimproved

Oops, my fault. I will make is recieve some food.

 

[ezzlar]

I started a Bulgar game. At start Byzantium had collapsed and Constantinopel was unguarded in revolt. Easy first UHV

 

[Barratt_87]

I think longbowmen should be pushed back a bit. In my latest game they started appearing around 1100, maybe earlier.. Now im no history genius but i know that english longbowmen were still fairly new (and thus feared) at the battle of stirling and thats in the 1300's (thank a mixture of braveheart and wikipedia for that one, lol)... Plus, the archery unit before longbowmen (i dont know how to spell it) has such a limited time frame because once you have plate armor you can go straight for chivalry and then, *BANG*, its already obsolete. Kind of a waste of a unit... Can we push longbowmen back to the late 1200's/early 1300's?

 

[Barak]

Playing as Bulgaria, I am cruising along with little issues and the first 2 UHV well in hand. A plague strikes in the 1300s, and the world population plummets. My civ survives, and has stability over +20 when in 1362, Belograd revolts and gets independence somehow.

With a stable civ, should this have happened?

 

[hoplitejoe]

i have a very minor point about the map. i think there should be some hills somewhere below London to represent both the north and south downs. i live near them and can confirm its not all flat down here.

 

[yogiebere]

I sort of agree with that one on longbowman, its a little odd how lowbowman come with knights, longbows are just so hard to kill with them. Even with serious bombarb backup it usually takes me 2 knights per longbow, which leads to a lot less territorial aggression on the part of the AI

 

[Wessel V1]

I see that the Portuguese AI now settles Morocco, good job. However, I think it should be limited to coastal cities, the AI built Coimbra 1S of the wheat, which is an exceptionally bad location.

 

[youtien]

How much faith points does St. Sophia worth? Built it around 94 points and it pumped to 100.

As Bulgaria I expanded a lot to get 100 FP with only 1 GP became saint.

 

[Daffy]

I see that the Portuguese AI now settles Morocco, good job. However, I think it should be limited to coastal cities, the AI built Coimbra 1S of the wheat, which is an exceptionally bad location.

Besides that Coimbra was the capitol of Portugal 1139-1260.
The Portuguese cityname map for north africa pretty much ends around Casablana, anything further west or south gets the 'civ standard' names like Cumae for Genoa

But Absinth is doing something I think
I think I remember a posting with an altered Portugal/Iberia by Absinth, as far as I can tell the map is still the same just wheat added.
Discarded the alterations altogether or work in progress?

 

[Daffy]

I sort of agree with that one on longbowman, its a little odd how lowbowman come with knights, longbows are just so hard to kill with them. Even with serious bombarb backup it usually takes me 2 knights per longbow, which leads to a lot less territorial aggression on the part of the AI

Flanking II it really helps
only the English Longbowmen are supposed to get a bonus against heavy cavalry, right?
I think I remember reading something like that

 

[Wessel V1]

Besides that Coimbra was the capitol of Portugal 1139-1260.
The Portuguese cityname map for north africa pretty much ends around Casablana, anything further west or south gets the 'civ standard' names like Cumae for Genoa

But Absinth is doing something I think
I think I remember a posting with an altered Portugal/Iberia by Absinth, as far as I can tell the map is still the same just wheat added.
Discarded the alterations altogether or work in progress?

I know, the point was not the name of the city but the location, it is just sad to see a city there.

 

[Veshta]

English Bows get an extra bonus, the vanilla one has 25% I believe.

Problem with the early longbows is that they skew the power ratio a lot in favour of defence, up until then it is fairly even. Flanking only helps if you measure success by not losing units which is kind of silly because why then attack in the first place
Now if knights had a bonus against archery units and the bows lost their heavy cav. bonus .. would make bows less useful as the omni-tool they are (defence and offence with the same unit) and necessitate building some of the good old Guisarmier which are not appearing at all now - thanks to bows.

"Nerfing" them is counter productive as the 'issue' only appeared because they were moved up in the tech tree .. a lot I might add as there are some hefty pre-reqs for Military Tradition which were also skipped.

 

[Daffy]

English Bows get an extra bonus, the vanilla one has 25% I believe.

Problem with the early longbows is that they skew the power ratio a lot in favour of defence, up until then it is fairly even. Flanking only helps if you measure success by not losing units which is kind of silly because why then attack in the first place
Now if knights had a bonus against archery units and the bows lost their heavy cav. bonus .. would make bows less useful as the omni-tool they are (defence and offence with the same unit) and necessitate building some of the good old Guisarmier which are not appearing at all now - thanks to bows.

"Nerfing" them is counter productive as the 'issue' only appeared because they were moved up in the tech tree .. a lot I might add as there are some hefty pre-reqs for Military Tradition which were also skipped.

due to the previous pre-reqs I almost never built longbowmen, why?
musketmen are better and weren't that far away, build arquebusiers and upgrade them to musketmen was usually the way to go in my games (cost less hammers)
admitted I don't play aggressive, so I seldomly research military techs anyway

it's about negating first strikes from bowmen, not about the withdrawl chance so much which is why I chose Flanking II
I concider it a necessity if the bowman I intend to attack even has Drill upgrades

but the 'silly not losing unit' part has a serious advantage..
attack with mounted seargents first(immune to first strikes anyway and a high withdrawl rate), then send in the heavy cavalry
the mounted sergeants that managed to withdraw(up to 70% chance or so)
most likely damaged a unit and yet live to fight another battle..

even a longbow with 0.1 strength can do serious damage due to its first strike(s)
the same can't be said for a knight i.e. with 0.1 strength

if you're referring to how hard it is to attack say Paris with Knights..
last time I attacked (England beta 8) it took 5 min for the french to finish attacking me once I dow and moved my units to bombard Paris.
I'm guessing they attacked with 30+ units
I still lost half of my 15 Knights when I took the city.(took more that one turn, too many units in Paris)
But worth it imo, I was opposed by Longbowmen which is why I mention it.
The only units that manage scare me with Knights are Ghazi, Paladins and Teutonic Knights (ok and pikemen/landsknecht, line infantry)
Besides any other suicidal acts against Polearm units
Maybe that Hungarian UU too, but I don't think I've encountered them