Beta Gauntlet VII

[WastinTime]

I was looking forward to going for cultural too. A few questions/comments:

Do you KNOW all 3 cities must be AI or are you inferring that?

You can't force Mercantilism ever.

I agree that forcing Free Speech after PA should be fixed if you can't do it.
I wasn't planning on making the PA until the last minute anyway. I wouldn't want to drag them into a war. I was thinking wars with the other civs will keep them from building wonders.

Learn anything else about PA's? I was told beakers per tech doubles. Is that also true for building projects like space parts--double hammers?

 

[DaveMcW]

You can prevent your PA buddy from launching the spaceship by building the last part and never finishing it. So it should be possible to win cultural with enough patience.

 

[Methos]

I can't remember where I read it, but I recall that it was stated that with a PA tech cost is increased by 50%, not by 100%.

 

[ohioastronomy]

Predictions:

Best conquest, no earlier than 800 BC. I'm getting 240 BC (not 480 as reported, misread the date) with the 4th target somewhat far.
The 1600 BC finishes on the leaderboard are marathon speed, not OCC and quick. I've been using pangaea, tropical, high seas, pressed borders; gandi, hatty, asoka, izzy as enemies. It probably doesn't matter who you pick as long as they don't have an early UU.

Strategy is simple, but the combination of OCC/fast really makes very early finishes extremely tough. Tech is Mine/BW/Wheel, toss starts without bronze, as they won't be competitive. Then development techs as needed (ag, ah, fish, mason, etc.) and IW. Other techs don't matter. Starts will need 4 hammer sources (grass/hills, plains/hills, ivory, stone, marble), one luxury within 3 (for 7 happy), and enough food to support 7 folks.
Build order is worker, barracks, worker, warrior, then axeman (and some jags for assaults on hill cities) until done (thanks for this sequence Ronald; works well).

2 workers early, maybe 3 if you need to develop more tiles or add roads. Send out squads of 4-6 axe/jags to nearby targets, use captured workers as combat engineers (building roads towards targets), and always have at least one worker (preferably 2+) chopping trees for a large radius around the city.
The earliest end will be in the center. You might be able to shave a few turns off if you have extra luxuries to hook up and unusually good hammer sources and/or an enormous abundance of trees.

Best spaceship: I'd bet on no earlier than 1800. Monty is not designed for teching. The best setup is probably the same as gauntlet 6 - great plains, massive food, and a pyramids/specialist setup. The parthenon will probably be needed to make up for not being philosophical. A CS slingshot is entirely doable at noble.

Culture: I think it's a will-o-wisp. Domination and diplomacy (with permanent alliances) will be possible. No idea on the dates, tho.

 

[Big_Ben]

^^^

You don't need perm alliances to win a diplo victory at all. Diplo is just getting people to vote for you, which isn't hard at all.

Pangea is one of the largest maps out there. Try playing team battlegrounds top v bottom. It is the smallest map in terms of area and you know where the enemies are, basically. A conquest victory before 1000 BC shouldn't be that hard at all. 1500 BC may be possible, I will give it a go and see where I am at 1500 BC later.

 

[WastinTime]

I almost won Diplomatic Gauntlet 4 using OCC, so you don't need a PA.

I ran thru one game quick to poke around with PA's. (While doing that I launched 1934 AD) They'll only enter a PA if you've been at a common war or had a defensive pact for a certain amount of time. Not sure how long.

 

[ohioastronomy]

I'll try team battlegrounds, thanks for the tip.

Spaceship looks harder - a trial run got me a 1962 finish, much worse than my pace in the last one. I think you'll need some hard-teching AIs to do better; Monty simply doesn't have the skills for a fast start, even though I did emphasize food and specialists.

 

[WastinTime]

Culture OCC

Whom to PA with?
In my test game most said Free Speech "Goes against everything we stand for". I assume these civs won't ever change to that civic. One of these was Louis. Are any of you getting Louis to convert?

Agreeable civs were Washington, Peter, Asoka, and Gengis Khan.

Odd thing is they'll accept any civic, the others none, so it seems to be only this game they have this attitude and it will change from game to game. Or something I did is affecting them? Anyone know how this works?

 

[n0xie]

Best spaceship: I'd bet on no earlier than 1800.

That sounds like a challenge! I'll take it

I'm not much of a warmonger, and killing all my oponents before 1AD just doesnt fit my playstyle. I like to build stuff, and preferably not units. If I do go to war I just win by superior tech or superior numbers. So let's see if I can get a space launch. I really enjoyed the previous OOC so this should be fun as well

 

[ohioastronomy]

Having tried Team Battlegrounds, I don't think it will be the best map. You get no luxuries, and the playing field is ..too fair. Asoka is a pain, Gandi/Hatty/Izzy are pushovers. I'm trying one of the Americans for the fourth civ. I think Pangaea will be the best map, although it will take some patience to get the right start for the best conquest. You need both a revealed resource (copper or iron) and a good distribution of AI positions compared to you, neither of which are obvious at the starting screen.
The square maps are too big, islands and continents have obvious problems.

 

[fluffyflyingpig]

>.< Something is wrong with my cookies. My posts don't seem to take.

World builder test indicates that the F8 screen is wrong, both PA civ's cities count toward the win. Oops. Got a culture win with world builder. F8 screen only listed Tenoich and Paris as legandary in different collums on the turn before the win. No other cities were listed in Louis's collum. PAs need more work in new patches.

No clue who will take Free Speech, prolly depends on the cost of swaping to that tech via other options. I was counting on using the PA to get them to swap. UN might be needed, but that causes more complications. Holding off for too long can cause "We're doing fine on our own" problems. Louis was chosen for obvious wonder building reasons + creative. This aspect of AI behavior is poorly documented.

I failed to not exactly how much tech costs changed.

Couldn't get 2 PAs in one game again. Could just be bad luck, but the other civ was friendly + long term def pact with both me and my partner civ. PA was good to go before I signed the first one. =\

Dave, main problem with culture is running out of time. The AI builds culture VERY slowly.

 

[BlueRenner]

In case anyone is hanging about waiting for a definitive answer, I just ran an OCC up to 520,000 culture for giggles. No victory. That's on Normal speed.

- Bill

 

[solidwoody]

Just got an 880bc conquest on Team Battlegrounds. Had Asoka Ghandi and Washington. I have no idea how anyone could get 1500bc.

 

[Methos]

In case anyone is hanging about waiting for a definitive answer, I just ran an OCC up to 520,000 culture for giggles. No victory. That's on Normal speed.

- Bill

Are there any more border expansions after legendary?

 

[WaxonWaxov]

I keep trying to play OCC and keep getting my ass handed to me. It seems like unless I have my entire perimeter fortified with six level five longbowmen per square, the AIs just take turns pounding on me.

 

[BlueRenner]

No.. it goes Legendary to nothing. All the 450,000 extra points of culture did was to secure my absolute control of all those tiles within the Legendary radius.

- Bill

 

[pooLarized]

1300bc conquest, some minor misstakes but its pretty obvious that the best time is going to depend on how close to the ai you start and if you get lucky enough to have bronze pop up next to you.

good thing about this gauntlet is that theres no need to regenerate the map for an halfhour, and if you would happen to get a great map you can just go for cultural, diplomatic or spacerace instead of wasting it on a conquest game where youll just end up using one or two squares anyways

ohio, the required number of ai opponents are 3 not 4, thats probobly why earlier than 800bc seems impossible for you. Your requirements for starting position seems a bit off too. all you really need is a bunch of forests and a plains/hill square to put your city on, turns spent building mines are turns that could be spent chopping.

 

[Ronald]

1300bc conquest, some minor misstakes but its pretty obvious that the best time is going to depend on how close to the ai you start and if you get lucky enough to have bronze pop up next to you.

Location of the AI is the most important one, so you need to play the smallest possible map to increase your chances.
Bronze is not important at all. By the time you connect it you can only build about 2 axemen, then you have IW and go for jags. Instead of the two axemen I prefer building my second worker. So I have one for chopping and one to build a road to the AIs.

 

[pooLarized]

Location of the AI is the most important one, so you need to play the smallest possible map to increase your chances.
Bronze is not important at all. By the time you connect it you can only build about 2 axemen, then you have IW and go for jags. Instead of the two axemen I prefer building my second worker. So I have one for chopping and one to build a road to the AIs.

bronze is perhaps not as useful as i first thought but its still pretty damn good to have. i would however chop a 2nd worker before hooking it up. if i can get 2 workers and 2 axemen before IW then thats a pretty big advantage. every turn counts

 

[WastinTime]

I keep trying to play OCC and keep getting my ass handed to me. It seems like unless I have my entire perimeter fortified with six level five longbowmen per square, the AIs just take turns pounding on me.

You should not get attacked ever--even with just one warrior defending if you're playing a peaceful builder game. Remember you can choose your opponents and give them tech to keep them happy.

If you're doing conquest, you should not have longbowmen and take the war to them earlier.