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"Beta" Massive WW2 scenario
- Thread starter Meateater
- Start date
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
Pardon??? I will not doubt in the courage of Norway´s resistance, but she was sunk near Tromsö after being hit by British 5,45 ts Tallboy bombs (4 times IIRC). And only because of being towed on the wrong place. Source: www.warships1.com/GERbb08_Bismarck_specs.htm .
I doubt, Norwegian resistance would have ever had the possibility to sink the German capital ships in Norway.
Adler
I doubt, Norwegian resistance would have ever had the possibility to sink the German capital ships in Norway.
Adler
Adler17 is right.
Tirpitz was sunk November 12 1944 by 32 Lancasters
using the "superbomb" Tall Boy: 5 443 kg.
(Tall Boy was the second biggest bomb used during WW2.
The biggest was Grand Slam: 9 979 kg.)
971 men of the crew were killed.
Rocoteh
(We seems to have hit "submit reply" at the same time
Adler17)
Tirpitz was sunk November 12 1944 by 32 Lancasters
using the "superbomb" Tall Boy: 5 443 kg.
(Tall Boy was the second biggest bomb used during WW2.
The biggest was Grand Slam: 9 979 kg.)
971 men of the crew were killed.
Rocoteh
(We seems to have hit "submit reply" at the same time
Adler17)
Blucher was sunk April 9 1940 when the fortress
Oscarsborg opened fire with heavy guns and torpedoes.
Its hard to see that I or Adler17 should have denied
the courage of the Norwegian freedom-fighters by
discussing the massive British air-raid that sunk Tirpitz.
Well this is going off-topic (as WW2-threads often do).
Because of that: No more comments on the subject from me.
Rocoteh
Oscarsborg opened fire with heavy guns and torpedoes.
Its hard to see that I or Adler17 should have denied
the courage of the Norwegian freedom-fighters by
discussing the massive British air-raid that sunk Tirpitz.
Well this is going off-topic (as WW2-threads often do).
Because of that: No more comments on the subject from me.
Rocoteh
No it's ok at least you were still talking about the ship's. I am going to leave the Bismark and some other ships and carriers that were made after 1939 in the scenario just because. The Tirpitz was sunk in port? like how Rocoteh said during repairs I think.
Here is a good question that I know the answer too, only after research but let me pick your brains anyway. How many Aircraft Carriers did Germany have during the war and their roles during the war?
On another topic as mentioned before I was going to play a game with me being the only one able to make MP's and alliances and it worked great, and only had to reload one time because Japan went to war with the Soviets. Other than that, the only problem is the embargoes that everyone put on you if you were not trading with them. I played as Germany, so I went through the countries in order and now everyone is pissed at me, and my axis allies that have joined my fight. This has made is so controllable, and more enjoyable that I have to leave it this way.
I have it locked for accelerated production and turns in months, so if I change it to turns in weeks I will change the production too.
Here is how the game went. I made contact with everyone and traded maps, then traded maps and contacts too, gave it away as gifts to my axis allies, so they became polite, and to the enemy I asked for their world map when giving them my world map with the contacts and they still stayed annoyed with me. I do this so everyone starts out knowing each other and has the same world map and can spend money on embassies instead.
Well after a bunch of turns and after removing Poland, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, France, Yugoslavia, and Greece from Europe with the help of some of my axis allies on the last three and making the Soviets take Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia, somewhere in there. Its June 1941, and after a little spying, the Soviets have some 36 T34's and 20 odd bombers with 160 infantry plus 40 heavy infanty that will do battle with my veteran and elite forces not to mention Italy, Finland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria too. I let Japan take Indo-ChinaIn in September and in about five more turns I am going to let them loose on a few more countries.
The scenario plays so much better with the AI not making MP's and alliances, and it keeps countries that you don't want involved, not involved untill you want them to be.
Here is a good question that I know the answer too, only after research but let me pick your brains anyway. How many Aircraft Carriers did Germany have during the war and their roles during the war?
On another topic as mentioned before I was going to play a game with me being the only one able to make MP's and alliances and it worked great, and only had to reload one time because Japan went to war with the Soviets. Other than that, the only problem is the embargoes that everyone put on you if you were not trading with them. I played as Germany, so I went through the countries in order and now everyone is pissed at me, and my axis allies that have joined my fight. This has made is so controllable, and more enjoyable that I have to leave it this way.
I have it locked for accelerated production and turns in months, so if I change it to turns in weeks I will change the production too.
Here is how the game went. I made contact with everyone and traded maps, then traded maps and contacts too, gave it away as gifts to my axis allies, so they became polite, and to the enemy I asked for their world map when giving them my world map with the contacts and they still stayed annoyed with me. I do this so everyone starts out knowing each other and has the same world map and can spend money on embassies instead.
Well after a bunch of turns and after removing Poland, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, France, Yugoslavia, and Greece from Europe with the help of some of my axis allies on the last three and making the Soviets take Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia, somewhere in there. Its June 1941, and after a little spying, the Soviets have some 36 T34's and 20 odd bombers with 160 infantry plus 40 heavy infanty that will do battle with my veteran and elite forces not to mention Italy, Finland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria too. I let Japan take Indo-ChinaIn in September and in about five more turns I am going to let them loose on a few more countries.
The scenario plays so much better with the AI not making MP's and alliances, and it keeps countries that you don't want involved, not involved untill you want them to be.
I find your question about German Aircraft Carriers
somewhat provokative... I have never been interested in
question-contests......
Still you will get an answer: No German Aircraft Carrier
(CV, CVL,CVE) was completed during WW2.
There were 6 different projects. All failed.
If you have any other answer I suggest you recheck
your sources.
In June 1941 The Soviet Army had:
60 Tank divisions, 36 Motorized Rifle divisions,
194 Rifle divisions, 13 Cavalry divisions and
5 Airborne "corps".(They were division-sized units).
If you count 1 T-34 unit as 2 Tank divisions, you
seems to have come rather close to the historical
numbers.
Rocoteh
somewhat provokative... I have never been interested in
question-contests......
Still you will get an answer: No German Aircraft Carrier
(CV, CVL,CVE) was completed during WW2.
There were 6 different projects. All failed.
If you have any other answer I suggest you recheck
your sources.
In June 1941 The Soviet Army had:
60 Tank divisions, 36 Motorized Rifle divisions,
194 Rifle divisions, 13 Cavalry divisions and
5 Airborne "corps".(They were division-sized units).
If you count 1 T-34 unit as 2 Tank divisions, you
seems to have come rather close to the historical
numbers.
Rocoteh
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
Germany was building a fleet carrier when the war started. This ship was the Graf Zeppelin, which was similar to Japanese carriers, but had a very new invention: A catapult for planes. These were common in other ships to start their swimming planes, but it was the first time in a real carrier. Due to the "glorious" leadership of Hitler and Göring this ship was never completed. She was scuttled in 1945, and although the Soviets salvaged the ship, it was mined and sunk in the Baltic.
Another carrier which was being built but never completed was the conversion of the CA Seydlitz to a CVL. There were other plans for a conversion of the French CL De Grasse to a CVL or the passanger ships Potsdam and Scharnhorst to CVE. None of them had been started.
The history of naval combat in the Atlantic would have been changed dramatically, if the Graf Zeppelin escorted Bismarck and Prinz Eugen on the operation Rheinübung. With a fighter cover British Swordfish torpedo planes would have never got so close to launch their weapons. So the Bismarck would have avoided the fatal hit.
But this is speculative.
Adler
Another carrier which was being built but never completed was the conversion of the CA Seydlitz to a CVL. There were other plans for a conversion of the French CL De Grasse to a CVL or the passanger ships Potsdam and Scharnhorst to CVE. None of them had been started.
The history of naval combat in the Atlantic would have been changed dramatically, if the Graf Zeppelin escorted Bismarck and Prinz Eugen on the operation Rheinübung. With a fighter cover British Swordfish torpedo planes would have never got so close to launch their weapons. So the Bismarck would have avoided the fatal hit.
But this is speculative.
Adler
Yeah sorry didn't mean for it to be a question but came out like that, but it was about ships. I am glad I asked, I knew of the Zeppelin but not the other, one other reason they said Germany never produced a Aircraft Carrier worthy plane, so why build a carrier. I agree with carrier escort the Atlantic battles may have been way different. I am going to start working on the ships as soon as I finish the test game I am playing.
As last mentioned I was planing Operation Barbarossa and it went fairly well. I was successfully in the north and south but the central group is stalling and I must reinforce them now. With the Intel from my spy, I see the Soviets can produce more tanks than I can destroy each turn, but they must bring those tank to the front lines from far away and this gives me an edge for now. The U.S. has started to bomb me from the air with B17's and Mustangs from carrier's but I have the Bismark in a small battle group that made that carrier go home for repairs but they reinforced with two more carriers and battle ships that bombed my battle group and I must head for a harbor for repairs. The British have landed in Greece and in Italy with a few units but were taken out quick. They also have began a counter attack in west Africa with an Army, so I must send my Africa corps reinforcements too. Before letting Japan loose I spied and found them to have over 250 infantry units, 20 + battle ships, 10+ destroyers, same with transports, 5 carriers, 50+ bombers and fighters, and some armor. Over all I have to change some things with the units for more balance but it is playing allot better and I will try and post version 1.5 of the scenario soon.
As last mentioned I was planing Operation Barbarossa and it went fairly well. I was successfully in the north and south but the central group is stalling and I must reinforce them now. With the Intel from my spy, I see the Soviets can produce more tanks than I can destroy each turn, but they must bring those tank to the front lines from far away and this gives me an edge for now. The U.S. has started to bomb me from the air with B17's and Mustangs from carrier's but I have the Bismark in a small battle group that made that carrier go home for repairs but they reinforced with two more carriers and battle ships that bombed my battle group and I must head for a harbor for repairs. The British have landed in Greece and in Italy with a few units but were taken out quick. They also have began a counter attack in west Africa with an Army, so I must send my Africa corps reinforcements too. Before letting Japan loose I spied and found them to have over 250 infantry units, 20 + battle ships, 10+ destroyers, same with transports, 5 carriers, 50+ bombers and fighters, and some armor. Over all I have to change some things with the units for more balance but it is playing allot better and I will try and post version 1.5 of the scenario soon.
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
I didn´t say Norwegian ARMED FORCES (Navy, Air Force or army) were possible to sink a capital ship. I knew the loss of the Blücher, but she was sunk DURING the occupation, not AFTER the occupation has finished. So I stay in my opinion RESISTANCE fighter of Norway would have never had the possibility to sink a German capital ship.
To Meateater: Germany had indeed a carrier version of Me 109 fighter and Ju 87 Stuka Dive/torpedo bomber and a Fieseler torpedo plane (biplane like Swordfish!) for carrier use. Indeed at the beginnig of WW2 ther were squadrons for the use on this carrier (Zeppelin had a sister, but she was never launched). This squadrons fought in Poland, were the planes sunk severeal Polish naval units like the destroyer Wicher.
Adler
To Meateater: Germany had indeed a carrier version of Me 109 fighter and Ju 87 Stuka Dive/torpedo bomber and a Fieseler torpedo plane (biplane like Swordfish!) for carrier use. Indeed at the beginnig of WW2 ther were squadrons for the use on this carrier (Zeppelin had a sister, but she was never launched). This squadrons fought in Poland, were the planes sunk severeal Polish naval units like the destroyer Wicher.
Adler
Yurt
Warlord
Your city placement is pretty bad in Canada. Vancouver should be where Seattle is and almost every other city should be moved down accordingly. You have Victoria on the wrong island. All the cities west of Winnipeg (incl Winnipeg) look good. Most of your northern canadian cities are too insignificant to be there (some might not have existed in 1939) these include Aklavik, Ft Nelson, Echo Bay, Jasper, Caribou, York Factory, Severn, Fort Albany, Inukjuak, Fort George, Fort McKenzie and Goose Bay. Once you have moved the Western cities down you can replace them with more important northern cities like Yellowknife and Whithorse. Those are the only two that would have had population over 1000 at the time (maybe not even that). Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec are misplaced. You could put Sept-Iles where Quebec is now. I would place some cities for Brazil and stick Port au Prince on Haiti under American control.
I like how you have set up Europe, it looks very interesting. But Sweden should not be under German control, they never entered the war.
Iraq was occupied in 1940 I believe, before that it was basically independant.
Place South African cities, they were an important piece of the British empire.
Mauretania was unpopulated at the time, I would recommend placing more french cities in Senegal, Cote d-ivore, etc. instead of in the sahara. Suez is on the wrong side of the red sea.
Why is India independant?
There are way too many Japanese in Malaya!!!!!!! They didn't even invade there until 1941.
New Zealand was not independant until 1947.
Samara was called Kuybyshev and you have placed it in the wrong place, it should be west of Atyrau, northeast of Stalingrad. I would recommend adding Kazan, Gorkiy, Chelyabinsk and Sverdlovsk. There should be more cities in that area and less spread across Siberia.
Why are there Frigates everywhere, are they for making contact? Actually that is a good idea.
All in all it looks good, especially the European and Chinese theatres.
I like how you have set up Europe, it looks very interesting. But Sweden should not be under German control, they never entered the war.
Iraq was occupied in 1940 I believe, before that it was basically independant.
Place South African cities, they were an important piece of the British empire.
Mauretania was unpopulated at the time, I would recommend placing more french cities in Senegal, Cote d-ivore, etc. instead of in the sahara. Suez is on the wrong side of the red sea.
Why is India independant?
There are way too many Japanese in Malaya!!!!!!! They didn't even invade there until 1941.
New Zealand was not independant until 1947.
Samara was called Kuybyshev and you have placed it in the wrong place, it should be west of Atyrau, northeast of Stalingrad. I would recommend adding Kazan, Gorkiy, Chelyabinsk and Sverdlovsk. There should be more cities in that area and less spread across Siberia.
Why are there Frigates everywhere, are they for making contact? Actually that is a good idea.
All in all it looks good, especially the European and Chinese theatres.
Yurt
Warlord
Also Atyrau was called Guryev. If you decide to put in Perm, it was called Molotov, and Orenberg was called Chkalov.
Thanks Yurt for your info. I can see now that Canada is off set around Seattle, and some of the cities need to be taken out, I need to find a better map of Canada in 1939.
Sweden has been added for version 1.5 and is now independent and will trade Iron with Germany. About Sweden being part of Germany before is explained in a previous post.
I am thinking of making Iraq, Libanon, and Syria one civ since they were invaded by the Brits and Free French about the same time or adding them to Iran (Persia) since all of them were occupied within 4 months of each other(Iran by Brits and Soviets)
I will take a better look at Africa and see what else I can do there, but the thing is the Brits have so much territory and have to fight on so many fronts, if I gave them too many cities in south Africa they would not be able to defend them, and would be easy targets for Italy, I am even thinking about getting rid of the British and French cities in the mid south, just to keep the war in the west and north. I will do a test and see if I can make one or two cities in the south that can produce units quickly, so the Brits can attack from the south.
Why is India independent? Well not all of it is, the British have more of it then India in my scenario.
Short Historical Note
During WW2 India was still part of the British Commonwealth and as such British awards were available to its servicemen. In this context, two further awards were specifically related to India's participation in the war : the Service Medal 1939-1945 and the Recruiting Badge. Furthermore, a number of Indian states also saw fit to provide medals for their inhabitants for service abroad.
However, at the time there also existed a movement for Indian independence, lead by Subhas Chandra Bose. With the assistance of Nazi Germany and Japan, he raised the Provisional Government of Azad Hind (Free India) which declared war on Great Britain and the United States on 24 October 1943. A number of troops were raised, largely from Indian POW's and the Order of Azad Hind was created by the Provisional Government for award to members of the "Indian Legion" in Europe or the "Indian National Army" in Southeast Asia.
Thanks for the help on Russia cities, I will adjust. If you have sites for good maps of Russia for the time could you post them? About Siberia it was were a great deal of the Soviet T34 were built secretly, so I wanted to have them able to produce out there.
Yeah I have placed frigates (no attack or defend)and explores each with 100 moves per-turn around the map, But only for the human player so you can clean the map in 4 turns, and they can be used to make contact.
As mentioned I have added Sweden and also added Vichy French even thought they realy didn't form untill after the fall of France, they have control over most of the French colonies. In doing this Lithuania/Livtia/Estonia have been grouped in to one civ. When playing as an axis and after Italy declared war on the french then the fall of france in europe I would have Japan take French Indo-China, this comes way before they attack U.S. or any others, Japan would take Indo-China then send most of their units to Africa for the French there since not at war with anyone else. Now most of that is under Vichy control, But I left Indo-China, and madagasscar under french control, so Italy will go for madagasscar from Somoliland and Japan will go for Indo-China and keep all its forces in Asia for the Pacific opperations. I may make Indo-China its own civ since this will not work when playing with an allie civ, since you would have to declare war on Japan or France for it to work this way.
Sweden has been added for version 1.5 and is now independent and will trade Iron with Germany. About Sweden being part of Germany before is explained in a previous post.
I am thinking of making Iraq, Libanon, and Syria one civ since they were invaded by the Brits and Free French about the same time or adding them to Iran (Persia) since all of them were occupied within 4 months of each other(Iran by Brits and Soviets)
I will take a better look at Africa and see what else I can do there, but the thing is the Brits have so much territory and have to fight on so many fronts, if I gave them too many cities in south Africa they would not be able to defend them, and would be easy targets for Italy, I am even thinking about getting rid of the British and French cities in the mid south, just to keep the war in the west and north. I will do a test and see if I can make one or two cities in the south that can produce units quickly, so the Brits can attack from the south.
Why is India independent? Well not all of it is, the British have more of it then India in my scenario.
Short Historical Note
During WW2 India was still part of the British Commonwealth and as such British awards were available to its servicemen. In this context, two further awards were specifically related to India's participation in the war : the Service Medal 1939-1945 and the Recruiting Badge. Furthermore, a number of Indian states also saw fit to provide medals for their inhabitants for service abroad.
However, at the time there also existed a movement for Indian independence, lead by Subhas Chandra Bose. With the assistance of Nazi Germany and Japan, he raised the Provisional Government of Azad Hind (Free India) which declared war on Great Britain and the United States on 24 October 1943. A number of troops were raised, largely from Indian POW's and the Order of Azad Hind was created by the Provisional Government for award to members of the "Indian Legion" in Europe or the "Indian National Army" in Southeast Asia.
Thanks for the help on Russia cities, I will adjust. If you have sites for good maps of Russia for the time could you post them? About Siberia it was were a great deal of the Soviet T34 were built secretly, so I wanted to have them able to produce out there.
Yeah I have placed frigates (no attack or defend)and explores each with 100 moves per-turn around the map, But only for the human player so you can clean the map in 4 turns, and they can be used to make contact.
As mentioned I have added Sweden and also added Vichy French even thought they realy didn't form untill after the fall of France, they have control over most of the French colonies. In doing this Lithuania/Livtia/Estonia have been grouped in to one civ. When playing as an axis and after Italy declared war on the french then the fall of france in europe I would have Japan take French Indo-China, this comes way before they attack U.S. or any others, Japan would take Indo-China then send most of their units to Africa for the French there since not at war with anyone else. Now most of that is under Vichy control, But I left Indo-China, and madagasscar under french control, so Italy will go for madagasscar from Somoliland and Japan will go for Indo-China and keep all its forces in Asia for the Pacific opperations. I may make Indo-China its own civ since this will not work when playing with an allie civ, since you would have to declare war on Japan or France for it to work this way.
Re: Your mod that came with PTW
hi there!
You are free to use the scenario and contents within it... anything you post online however that is derived from PTW (made from firaxis) is the property of Firaxis. You can however use the bix file, text in the civilopedia etc but actually posting units from it - thats a no no
if and when you do make this scenario please give credit to "TETurkhan Test of Time Mod" - thats all I ask.
Ray
------------
The above is a reply I got when I had some questions about the use of mods that came with PTW for user created scenarios. I fully understand it but just wanted to post it so others can see. If you don't understand something then just ask, its as easy as that.
So if you DO NOT have PTW then you SHOULD NOT have the units that came in it. Makes sence.
And with this information, I have edited my first post to include credit to the makers of the great TETurkhan Test of Time Mod and will do so in the scenario. I will continue to use TETurkhan Test of Time Mod as the backbone for this WW2 scenario. If you don't have Civilization 3, Play The World then you will not be able to use the scenario.
hi there!
You are free to use the scenario and contents within it... anything you post online however that is derived from PTW (made from firaxis) is the property of Firaxis. You can however use the bix file, text in the civilopedia etc but actually posting units from it - thats a no no
if and when you do make this scenario please give credit to "TETurkhan Test of Time Mod" - thats all I ask.
Ray
------------
The above is a reply I got when I had some questions about the use of mods that came with PTW for user created scenarios. I fully understand it but just wanted to post it so others can see. If you don't understand something then just ask, its as easy as that.
So if you DO NOT have PTW then you SHOULD NOT have the units that came in it. Makes sence.
And with this information, I have edited my first post to include credit to the makers of the great TETurkhan Test of Time Mod and will do so in the scenario. I will continue to use TETurkhan Test of Time Mod as the backbone for this WW2 scenario. If you don't have Civilization 3, Play The World then you will not be able to use the scenario.
I've just started a game as Germany using your saved game but just thought I'd ask what victory conditions were set up and whether culture flipping is on?
I normally play Regent level so Diety is going to be interesting, especially as Russia is already furious with me (don't know why, most others are annoyed)
. I'll let you know what happens...
I normally play Regent level so Diety is going to be interesting, especially as Russia is already furious with me (don't know why, most others are annoyed)
. I'll let you know what happens...Yeah elimination and domination are set for the V. C., but when I start a game I set my own goals and try to meet those goals depending on who I play as, and culture flipping is off. Every game I have played all the civs are annoyed at the start, so I don't know why Russia is furious. I think you have a saved game from version 1.1, and I am currently working on version 2.0. that has a bunch of changes to make the game play a lot better.
I have not got much feedback on how the game plays so I must play and adjust myself, and I may miss some things that someone else might see, but I do my best to pick them out and fix them. I have made many adjustments from version 1.1 to 2.0 but if you see something just tell me, because I may have missed it. I will post version 2.0 soon, and list the changes, and see if I can put up a saved game or two also.
I have not got much feedback on how the game plays so I must play and adjust myself, and I may miss some things that someone else might see, but I do my best to pick them out and fix them. I have made many adjustments from version 1.1 to 2.0 but if you see something just tell me, because I may have missed it. I will post version 2.0 soon, and list the changes, and see if I can put up a saved game or two also.
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