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BETA TEST: 1.24b4

Discussion in '[MAC+WIN] Civ4 - History Rewritten' started by Xyth, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. BBQ man

    BBQ man Chieftain

    Nov 7, 2011
  2. Nightstar

    Nightstar Prince

    Apr 29, 2012
    It appears that if you found (and adopt, of course) a religion while in the post-anarchy cooldown period (from changing civics for example), you'll be locked into the default Tenet options with no way to customize your religion until you expend another Great Prophet for an actual Reformation on a later turn. (No idea yet what happens if that is *also* during a post-civics change cooldown period...)

    Attached Files:

  3. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    Found the problem, cheers.
    cobbaut likes this.
  4. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

    Jul 27, 2009
    Szeged, Hungary
    Tried a quick testgame tonight with your latest version, couple notes:

    • CvAdvisorUtils, line 314: localtext not defined
    • Text error on religion removal (when new religion spreads to a city)
    • In WB when you try to switch a unit in a stack (in unit edit mode), there are some looped python errors which brake the game if python exceptions are enabled
    • Mercenaries civic shows +0.02 gold per unit, +1701188 support cost per military unit
    • National wonder limit is wrong in the capital, shows x / 3 instead of x / 2. I guess this is because of the palace, but then it should display x+1 / 3 (currently 2/3 is the max in the capital)
    • Top 5 cities page, wonder built dates show up strange (X instead of BC and CE/AD)
    • TXT_KEY errors: no text for environmental advisor, no text for global warming active
    • I got a double golden age when I started a new one with GPs when I was already in a GA (got +24 turns instead of +12). Wasn't able to reproduce it, so could be a rare vanilla issue too.

    • Hungarian unit sounds are missing, you can get it from many mods, including RFCE
    • Vegvar +5 culture is really nice, maybe a little too nice? Didn't really check the UB balance though, so it might be intentional to give such huge boost to culture. I would prefer to have +2-3 culture, and some kind of a different bonus additionally.
    • You still have the unlimited doctor civic, and with the +1 food for doctors it causes various issues as I reported for the previous version. Did you forget this, or did you decide to use it anyway?
    • Dissent is already great, but I would love it to be more dynamic. Maybe war weariness could add to it directly, not just through happiness. Also friendly garrison in a city. Dissent reduction from espionage is also a bit low to my taste, it's meaningless for most of the game.
    • A golden age is half the time as it should be with Idolatry even before I found a religion. Is it intentional? I presumed those tenets are only active after you founded/adapted a religion.

    AI and gameplay issues:
    • AI is strange on resource trades. It values non-happiness or non-health resources to 0. Even strategic resources. This is definitely not the case in vanilla Civ IV.
    • AI is uncapable to effectively fight against leaders with the no pillage trait. The armies usually get a serious delay, smaller stacks or single units get into infinite pillage loops on some occasions.
    • Enemy spies stealing gold is too powerful, in many cases spies stole 100% of my gold reserves. 80-100 gold in the middle ages. And it came up very often, every 2-3 turns (since I played on a hard level, most AI had tech advantage over me, so earlier access to espionage). This is way too frustrating, especially for your workers as it resulted a huge amount of delayed roadbuilding. I would set that you can never loose more than 70-80% of your gold reserves to enemy spies, no matter their espionage advantage.
    • War weariness was sometimes insane. got +14 against a civ, which I have never declared war on. We had a long war which the AI started, then after a long (+100 turns peace) declared war again, and war weariness was this high on the very first turn... It was about 2/3 of the size of the city in all my cities, on the start of a defensive war! Couple turns later it got to around the full size of the cities, everywhere.
    • Also, the AI tends to get into neverending loops in wars. I had 10+ wars against the same enemy in the game. Usually declared war right after the previous peace treaty ended. Many times it didn't even have superior numbers, at least not enough to conquer it's target city. SOD (which meant all his attacking units) was only 8-10 units. On the scoreboard the power ratio was as high as 1.5 sometimes (my advantage). I suppose this has something to do with K-mod, so maybe it's a neccessity with the improved agressiveness of the AI, but it might be further tweaked to a more rational level.

    Sry if any of these came up before, didn't have time to read through the thread.
    The mod shapes up pretty nicely, I like the recent changes! Keep up the great work, Civ IV forever! :)
  5. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    All now fixed, thanks.

    I couldn't reproduce this. Any particular units it happens with?

    There's a number of quirks with the Info Screen. I intend to give it a proper overhaul sometime after 1.24, so I'm leaving them as is for now.

    Where were you seeing these? I presume they're from K-Mod's global warming system, which I decided not to merge.

    Odd. Let me know if it happens again.

    The Mac version has some audio-related memory leaks, so I've been very cautious about adding custom sounds up till now. Adding more unit selection sounds is on my todo list, but I need to do some testing before I can. Same is true with leader music.

    The culture is intended, and it also reduces bombard damage by 25% (other Castles do not). In HR, no two UBs have the same bonus, even if they replace different buildings.

    My idea to have Doctors not provide food didn't work unfortunately. I've removed the +1:science: from Doctor specialists and made a few tweaks to AI yield/commerce valuations. I want to see how that goes before trying anything else.

    At this stage I don't wish to connect any further mechanics to dissent. It's already complex enough to tune right.

    I've done a bit of further dissent tuning since the 4th beta, so see how it feels in the final release. (Nearly done)

    Yes, this is intended. All the starting tenets are active, representing the 'primitive' mysticism of your civilization before it develops or adopts a more defined religion.

    The AI is fine with strategic resources that unlock units or speed up production, but it doesn't seem to cope well with the strategic resources that only provide extra yield via buildings, e.g. Peat and Bitumen. I need to rethink these.

    This hasn't been too much of a problem so far, but maybe it is under K-Mod. Will look into it, probably after 1.24 though.

    Do you think this is an HR specific problem, or does it affect BTS and other mods too?

    I'll have to look and see what changes K-Mod has made in regards to war weariness. I haven't really changed it at all.

    What was their attitude to you like while this was happening?

    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  6. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

    Jul 27, 2009
    Szeged, Hungary
    Not sure anymore, will test this further
    I believe both messages were related to the start of global warming, a notification for the player about it (they came up in the same turn). I would guess that K-Mod adds those texts in the .dll with it's new system, it was something like txt_key_global_warming_active.
    Reasonable, will keep an eye for this.
    I can understand that.
    Still, at least a minimal feel of control about it would be great IMO.
    I would argue that even a minimal reduction for units patroling the city would be both realistic and fun, could lead to meaningful decisions for the human player.

    If I were you I would probably do it like this: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, ... dissent reduction for each additional unit in the city.
    This doesn't make it too powerful even with huge stacks, and promotes having some defense force in most of your cities.
    Also something along these lines would be beneficial for the AI, as it generally keeps more units in it's cities than the human player.
    I at least tend to keep only one defending units in my non-border cities, which shouldn't result in an advantage over the AI.
    I believe if a pillaging AI action/goal is active for a unit, it's not that easy for it switch out of it until an improvement is pillaged. There are multiple things which allows it to switch out - like the arrival of another friendly unit, founding a more juicy target, or if there is threat - but in many cases it might spend a lot of turns trying to pillage to same tiles.
    Not sure, but never experienced this before. I'm sure it has something to do with my too few espionage points. Still, a general cap on the stolen gold would be great. It's annoying when you loose 100% of your reserves (sometimes lost all my 120-150 gold from a single spy action in the middle ages)
    They hated me big time. Nevertheless I don't think it calculated the attacking strength of it's army perfectly. After it's SoD was destroyed, it never sent any units (only started to rebuild it's attacking force back at home, which is great), as most of it's remaining units were defensive ones.
  7. Nightstar

    Nightstar Prince

    Apr 29, 2012
    Two minor things:

    One, the Civilopedia image for the Elephant resource is pitch black, like it's been bathed in crude oil.
    Black Elephant.png

    Two, Mount Everest doesn't block sight (probably because it's treated as a flatlands tundra tile rather than a peak).
    See-Through Everest.png
  8. rsab

    rsab Warlord

    Sep 20, 2014
    Hi Xyth,

    playing a game on a Mac, this time it's being very balanced. Enjoying it, thanks!

    Just some notes:

    -The "Can see research" points on the Espionage Advisor is not adjusted properly. It's saying I need much more points (to see the opponent's research) than I really need.

    -On the Corporate advisor, in each Corp. or Syndicate it's listed the resources related to each of them. It indicates the resources present on Territory, Imported, and Exported. Finally the total Available amount of the resource you dispose. The bug is in the "Available" column, so the addition is not well done.

    -I started to have some crash on the late medieval era or the renaissance era, and I'm still experiencing them on the Industrial era. It could be relevant that I've had a crash while observing for long one of the advisors (The Corporate Advisor), and I wasn't clicking, just reading, no operations.

    -In my current game, I'm at the point the Corporations/Syndicates incorporate to the game. I'm not able to understand well the mechanics neither the Corporate Advisor (how to bid, how the green and red arrows work...). I'm missing the civilopedia description. But I must say the first corporations have been introduced very recently in my game, maybe I can advance my game and try to understand the mechanics.
  9. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    I'll investigate, thanks.

    The AI values espionage more highly since it now also reduces dissent. You don't want to neglect it or AI spies will start wrecking havoc. I think a 75% cap on treasury theft is reasonable though.

    I noticed that. Fixing it will have to wait till after 1.24 though, as all the art is packed now.

    This will be tricky to fix. I'll have to make a fake terrain tile for such NWs to sit on or I'll have to rework their art to fit over a normal hill or mountain tile. Either way, it'll have to wait till after 1.24.

    I think I've fixed this issue, but haven't done extensive testing to be certain.

    It's not a total, it's a count of how many of this resource you know to exist. Or it would be, but it's accidentally repeating the Import figure. Fixed.

    Please post the crash report.

    I'm writing those pedia entries at the moment. I'll post them in the Corporations thread when I'm finished.
  10. Frenky

    Frenky Chieftain

    Oct 2, 2016
    Hello and thank you very much for this nice mod. I'm really enjoying it! It is the best mod imo!
    Small problems:
    Playing with the sacrifice tenet, when finishing a wonder at population 1, the city has 0 population the next turn. There is no way to increase its population then, other than building a Sewer I think.
    I think from A New Dawn, it is not possible to finish the wonder untill the city has size 2, which I think should be incorporate in this mod too. Even if it is bulped with a great engineer.

    Second thing was already mentioned before. Playing America and finishing Wall Streets results in a golden age (as intented of course). While in that golden age, finishing Taj Mahal, results in a +24 golden age lenght (in stead of +12).

    Last thing is a K-Mod thing, I think. When mass upgrading your units, the next turn you want to fortify your units, ALT-F doesn't function. You have to fortify every single unit.

    Really looking forward to v1.24!
  11. JustAnotherNerd

    JustAnotherNerd Warlord

    Sep 9, 2014
    Hey! There is no saltpeter resource on custom maps, at least on huge earth map. There is definitely NO any saltpeter.
    And there is no hemp aswell.
  12. Little Faith

    Little Faith Warlord

    Sep 13, 2009
    All the pre-made maps are out of date and for this release he's only going to do one (earth) map as he is more interested in making all the new systems work. He did release a preliminary version of said map though.
    BETA TEST: 1.24b4
  13. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    Thank you! Glad you are enjoying it!

    Hmm not something I considered. I'll just prevent the population sacrifice from happening if the city is only size 1. One small line of code vs. many.

    Found the problem, will be fixed.

    Interesting. I'm not sure how to fix that. Added to the todo list, will have to wait till after 1.24 though.
    cobbaut and Frenky like this.
  14. dretnoth

    dretnoth Warlord

    Oct 4, 2008
    Europe - Slovakia
    Hi, when I was writing this I have been still on beta3, but after move to b4 and read some post I made some adjustment.
    PS: This will be loong.

    1. That “steal money” spy mission was really a pain. No Mather if I have a 1000+ it will steal it all, but no show who look as a culprit on empire trade screen. I merely solve this burglary by having 2 spy in every city.

    2. Don’t thing you can always save already rebellious cities when you put a Golden age.

    -Yes they can rebel even in gold age. (b3 city have been already second turn on rebellion level)

    3. Will the grenadier move to earlier stages? (Decreasing stats.) ((I dint catch the answer if yes or no.)

    -Or maybe you think for some exchange for current grenadier. Or some of its alternative that it will fit the gap.

    The main point is that I really dislike that it want exchange long bowman for musket man. Especially when I have Kyudoka (Start whit Drill I, and Drill II)

    4. Progress bar for Great Prophet.

    -Can there be displayed from what and what much? (Fail to finding the best option when changing tenet (For that I must browse civilopedia.))

    --Maybe this can be sorted in F7 Religion Advisor as a new page to show how # faint are produced from resources, home cities and foreign cities.

    5. Dissent…

    I think a lot about it, how to solve AI fails and I hope I dint lost in it.

    -So how it really work?

    According on Civilopedia the sources are it unhappiness, pollution, Starving, foreign religions, civic and time.

    But number of cities have some effect to, and still suspect foreign culture to.

    Reduce it Happiness, healthiness, culture, espionage, buildings (Only Broadcast tower?), Golden age, and Humanitarian mission (It look as Total waste of GP. Have it at last some empire effect or some worthy time effect?)

    +Have approaching in time or tech page some decreasing effect on it? Or overall empire population? Empire Culture? Overall world Culture?

    +How work that modifier?


    -Can cities who dint join rebellion grant temporal loyalty bonus? (Probably have but dint see. Maybe for AI it will be good)

    Like -10 points for every disconnected city (Value can stock.), on duration (dint know like half of golden age?)

    -Can liberating your, or another empire city and return it to the owner, grand temporally liberating bonus for city or empire? (Or minimal for empire and good one for the city. (Probably have dint notice))

    -Can AI players from beginning have only half dissent penalty from non state religion? (I have feelings its effective way how to crush a powerful AI empire to nothing)

    +It can be disabled or reduced by approaching on timeline or techs progress.

    +Or it can be temporally volunterably option for testing until (something happen)

    5.2 Theory: Not Rebellion but Independence.

    -Have Vassal state some effect on dissent in Vassal Empire?

    Then how about a hidden(or not) Independence bar/meter similar to dissent bar/meter? (Though of disconnecting entire empire for subjugation.)

    It work similar as dissent bar but it will be active only for Vassal Empire. But it will consume half of the empire dissent value that will normally go to dissent bar in cities.

    Well say, it will be a clone of dissent meter bar that will be for every city its own. Bud, the dissent point will be redistributed equally to all as a independence points (InP). (Decreasing same way. Probably, but prioritizing Dissent.)(And, negative overall diplomatic point to parent empire will have + on InP)

    If some city have the bar full and criteria for independence event dint occur. The city triple it “InP” production, and they redistribute to other cities.

    When rebellion occur and the limit on Empire InP are not hit: The Independence point on disconnected city will be nullifies. And for allied cities it will be lost (cca 10%-25%) on the value. (Or redistributed value of loses cities or 10%+(5 for every lost city))

    +But, when a 85%-90% overall empire Independence limit are hit. The next rebellion that occur will be different. (When 100% to)

    It will be not mean of disconnecting the cities from Vassal Empire but occur as a coup in Vassal Empire. As a fall of current leader, and election of new leader for the empire.

    Empire dint change the name but it will call independence and throw out from subjugation.

    ++(MSG: A coup occur on the # empire. The leader # has been overthrow and people elected new leader. Entire empire Celebrating independence day.)

    ++(Event: Every city Population -1 to -3 (or just cca 50%-100% of not national population or culture), culture level -1, dissent set to 0, population converting over 50%-100% to Nationality, reset diplomatic +/- points to 0 whit other empires, cancel all trades, and treates.)

    ++Military units.

    Units of parent empire and its vassals (child’s) located on Vassal territory directly decrease Empire InP.

    When a Independence occur the unit that are in cities work in this was.

    Other that not are Parent and his child’s have 50% chance to move home vounded 40% to join Independence and 10% die.

    Parent and child’s have 30% chance for them to join the new empire, 30% chance to die in battle against separatist and 40% to return wounded home to lick they wounds.)

    +++ Can this military transferring of units be applied to normal rebellion? Plus when a new set of units are generated the Experience points from lost units will be rearranged to new created.

    So? Have this Independence thing root in someone interest? What are you option for this guis?

    6. Conquering city.

    -Can it have additional option other that Keep, burn, return, let me watch: like (if it is rebelled city) punish the rebels for they crimes against empire. (Or something that) that will do some changes on dissent generation in empire or city.

    +Or reduce population and converted part or majority of population to nation population.

    +Or sweep the heretic culture. (Causing rise of war volunteers in original owner empire)

    +Maybe for paying additional cash for them to los temper for disconnecting thougs.

    7. Razing city.

    Losing city (or maybe more cities) this way can create a event of “Call for blood revenge” when loyalty boost occur in entire empire (Or gold Age) and many volunteers will join the war against evil, decreasing cities population by 2.

    7. That Meditation tenet.

    Its still look as the brutally highest payment. The military units are something that consume the most of production. (Sometimes.) But its dint look a god solution to change it as increased payment for units without national territory, no pillage and income from conquering (or -100% if there is something that give +100%).

    8. I was thinking about event when are foreign religion wipe out from city on its own and got this somting:

    -IFS National culture is majority.

    +When foreigner culture hit the 10%+, there is chance to riot event that hat same chance to occur as size foreign culture.

    When this riot occur a population drop will be in % of random size from (foreign culture (cca 50+%) and equal or lower size of national.) This will reduce or remove the foreign culture.

    ++Then think if this can be used on religion to.

    ++Then can Tenets or Civic have some effect on it. Like democracy will cancel it. Slavery it will turn it into workers. Maybe some tenets can have effect on how strong or chance it will occur.

    9. How to Fight Syndicates? On b3 it in single round can mess wit many cities that have corporation. And cause for HQ to not be able build a corporate gui. (Its wrong have syndicate HQ and corporate HQ in one city?)

    10. Must I have the prophet to start reformation?

    Must if consume it for that? Can prophet settle down or just return for cca 10*MapSize turns from it mission? (Okay that second thing don’t look god)

    Mission for Prophet:

    -Relies the Faith: A boom that in fight against heretic will cause a massive draft of voluntaries from all cities.

    -Road of Faith: Spread the state religion to other cities. Prioritize own. (Maybe it launch a event for this when you can spread money to increase the strength or change it effect.)

    -Word of teaching: Temporal strong Empire Dissent reduction boost. (Maybe humanitarian mission can have + boost in world diplomacy.)

    Mission for General:

    -Raise the Flag of Empire: Will draft a whole division or something worth his price.

    In this how about exchange join the great general the unit (giving xp) for something like the draft of many units?
  15. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    It'll be capped at 75% for final release.

    This is intended. Best time to use a Golden Age is when your cities are Unsettled. Rebellious is usually too late.

    I'm not making any changes to the Grenadier for 1.24. Intending to look into it for 1.25.

    Existing Kyudoka will keep their promotions when upgraded. Maybe it would make sense for them to upgrade to the Rifleman instead?

    Yeah I need to do something about this.

    Number of cities modifies dissent from civics. The more cities you have, the more dissent from civics will increase. Rate of increase scales with mapsize. Foreign culture doesn't cause dissent, but it means less dissent reduction. If your city is 100% your culture, then it'll lower dissent by 100 each turn. But if your city is only 60% your culture, then it'll only lower dissent by 60 each turn. If you have the Multiculturalism civic, the % of your culture doesn't matter. It will always reduce dissent by 100.

    Palace, Season Palace, and Constabulary as well.

    It's an emergency measure. I want Humanitarian Missions to also reset the time modifier to 0%, but there are some technical challenges with that so it will have to wait till after 1.24.


    It's the time reduction modifier. Starts at 0% when you first found or obtain a city, builds up to 100% over time (roughly half an era). Also shows the effect of reduction from buildings, Palace, Constabulary, etc.

    Cities that don't secede are all reset to Stable. This is why letting the occasional city go Barbarian is actually a useful strategy. Better to lose one city temporarily than a whole bunch at once.

    When you lose a city for any reason, the rate of dissent from civics automatically reduces in all your other cities. Accumulated dissent does not.

    Vassals still accrue dissent the same as if they were not a vassal. Dissent in vassals has no effect on the master, nor does the dissent in the master civilization have any effect on its vassals.

    K-Mod already includes a mechanic where vassals can become independent again. I'm not sure if this is possible to replicate on the Mac side.

    I cannot add new options here.

    Im not quite sure what you are suggesting here? Having a city razed means your other cities also lose 2 population in exchange for units? That would be terrible, a massive penalty on top of bad fortune.

    It's only brutal if you're at war or haven't already built sufficient defenders. It's meant for peaceful players who do well at diplomacy.

    I don't think it is appropriate to link religion and ethnicity. Also, when a religion disappears from a city like that, it's not because it's been suppressed. It just wasn't able to retain enough of a following to keep it alive. Suppression of religion is represented by Inquisitors.

    You can't fight them directly, just discourage them. Encourage competing Corporations to set up in your cities instead, trade away excess copies of the resources the Syndicate is attracted to, and buy shares in the Syndicate. If needed, you can always adopt Retribution and/or Central Planning. Have a read of the Syndicates pedia entry I posted in the Corporations Feedback thread.

    Yes. It's their special ability and religious reformers often came to unhappy ends in history.

    I decided against giving Great People more than one special ability each. Prophets and Generals already have theirs, only one that doesn't yet is the Great Scientist.
  16. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    Officially declaring 1.24 as finished as it's ever going to be. Thank you to everyone who tried the betas and provided feedback. I'll upload the release version tomorrow evening.

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