Better RoM: BuildingUpgradeChains & Balance

[dudeSDCA]

Another question. I've noticed well into modern age that the apiary and candlemaker's shop are not going obsolete. I can see the value of candlemaker as a "luxury resource", but once you have electricity, having candles shouldn't be giving the same bonuses as they did before you needed candles to be productive

 

[generalstaff]

Another question. I've noticed well into modern age that the apiary and candlemaker's shop are not going obsolete. I can see the value of candlemaker as a "luxury resource", but once you have electricity, having candles shouldn't be giving the same bonuses as they did before you needed candles to be productive

Originally, the Candlemaker's Shop became obsolete with Optics (Whale tradable, Whale oil replaces candles). Of course this was back in Early Buildings.

 

[climat]

Please update OP if you have time.
The Pyramids (World Wonder) in your newest version (included in civic alpha) causes problems now. Cornhouse doesn't replace granary. After I built The Pyramids, I can build granary again.
Also, it makes bakery and manor unavailable because those requires granary.

 

[Killtech]

Please update OP if you have time.
The Pyramids (World Wonder) in your newest version (included in civic alpha) causes problems now. Cornhouse doesn't replace granary. After I built The Pyramids, I can build granary again.
Also, it makes bakery and manor unavailable because those requires granary.

as i said in the other thread it's a working version. i barely have time for civilization now. the last version here is no problematic bugs. i'll update the OP with a newer version when i'm sure it doesn't contains too many bugs.

btw. fixing the pyramids right now...

 

[dudeSDCA]

Killtech,

A couple of us have requested (on this thread and on the beta feedback thread) you make Universities a 2 library upgrade (instead of 3), and reduce the % bonus. I tried a game where I did that (reduced the % from like 50% to 35% I think), and I liked that half my cities were 'research' cities, and then I split the remaining half between production and commerce.

Also, I would recommend in your next version to make it compatible with larger cities since that's a standard install option on AND (e.g., no limit on larger city number, but I'm supportive of having a pre-req tech and making it more than just culture levels...).

 

[dudeSDCA]

Hey Killtech -- does Afforess have your latest changes? I was looking over the latest revision and it seems like the building upgrades haven't been updated since June? Just thought I'd comment since Afforess is trying to push 1.74 final ASAP

 

[Killtech]

upgraded OP with news changes.

 

[Iceciro]

I am still somewhat amused the first reply in this thread was from me decrying penalties on important buildings.

Oh how times change. I feel weird going to a mod where I can build whatever I want in any city with no forethought. well played sir.

 

[Afforess]

I've made a few changes to your latest version, Killtech. Feel free to debate them with me, I am open to your ideas.

Change 1.) River Regulation gives only 1 unhealthiness, not two.
Change 2.) Great Pyramids gives +1 global health to offset Free River Regulation's unhealthiness.
Change 3.) Added Apandana Palace for the Zoroastrian Religion. I put the building in all the necessary places for the upgrade chains.
Change 4.) Removed the Wonder_ files, I don't think the replacement wonders are quite ready for the prime time. I really like the idea, but I'd prefer that all the wonders, instead of the first few, were done before adding them.

 

[Killtech]

Change 1.) River Regulation gives only 1 unhealthiness, not two.

the river regulation is actually a replacement for the river authority and comes a bit later in the tech tree (i wanted to have the irrigation canals removed). it wasn't supposed to be build that early. at the other hand i was too lazy to make a pyramid-specific building replacement for them with a lower/none unhealthiness penalty.

Change 2.) Great Pyramids gives +1 global health to offset Free River Regulation's unhealthiness.

added that already. the unhealthiness from pyramids was an unintentional accident anyway.

Change 3.) Added Apandana Palace for the Zoroastrian Religion. I put the building in all the necessary places for the upgrade chains.

oups.. yeah, i read GeneralStaff added it. forgot to add it to the chain. so thx i guess.

Change 4.) Removed the Wonder_ files, I don't think the replacement wonders are quite ready for the prime time. I really like the idea, but I'd prefer that all the wonders, instead of the first few, were done before adding them.

agree on that. but it was sort of a test how the people react on the idea. i hoped of some advertisement of the idea this way and maybe positive feedback and perhaps even some others willing to these modifications. i didn't find the time to add in enough wonders myself and wanted to focus on the civics changes next.

EDIT: which log logs XML errors at startup?

 

[Afforess]

Turn on XML logging in the A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines. Then, the XML is logged in "XML Loadup.log"

 

[JosEPh_II]

1st. Is it here this modmod that watermill, workshop, etc. started removing Forests?

2nd. If it is Why?

3. If not, can someone show me which file to change to get it back to NOT removing forests. This is a Big step backwards and makes forest chop rush the "thing" to do. I don't like it.

JosEPh (the lone voice crying in the wilderness....)

 

[Killtech]

nope, it is not here. it should be somewhere in the Afforess folder, but i don't know precisely.

 

[Afforess]

1st. Is it here this modmod that watermill, workshop, etc. started removing Forests?

2nd. If it is Why?

3. If not, can someone show me which file to change to get it back to NOT removing forests. This is a Big step backwards and makes forest chop rush the "thing" to do. I don't like it.

JosEPh (the lone voice crying in the wilderness....)

No It isn't. Better RoM changed that.

It's done because it's unrealistic to have huge towns, or pastures in forested lands. The BTS developers were right when they kept those two separate. So it's more realistic. Also, it makes it too easy to get lots of production.

Realism + Gameplay > Opinions.

Sure, the Better_RoM_Civ4BuildInfos.xml. I'm not going to teach you XML, but that's where those changes are.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Thanks for the answer and the file name.

Not asking for you to teach me xml.

IMHO your reasoning is flawed, Workshops nor watermills deforest the nearby land. If you think it's appropo for Cottages I won't disagree on that. And why would trading post deforest the land?

There was a Huge discussion over the AI clearing forest too much. And everyone then agreed that needed addressed, even you. So various modmods came out. Even Zappara didn't cause Workshops and Watermills to deforest the tile. Now you backpedal in the name of realism? And whats wrong with lots of production? That's progress. The AI gets it too so it's not unbalanced.

I know you won't change it. And I've stated my view of it. So there we sit on opposite sides of the fence.

Have a nice day. Soon you'll be rid of me and your world will be brighter.

JosEPh

 

[Afforess]

There was a Huge discussion over the AI clearing forest too much.

I know, but the "solution" was no solution at all. If the AI have problem with something, fix the AI, don't change the mod.

 

[Killtech]

There was a Huge discussion over the AI clearing forest too much. And everyone then agreed that needed addressed, even you. So various modmods came out. Even Zappara didn't cause Workshops and Watermills to deforest the tile.

the forest spreading rules has been changed to address this. e.g. forest growth doens't need a neighboring forest tiles anymore among other changes. this is a different approach.

Now you backpedal in the name of realism? And whats wrong with lots of production? That's progress. The AI gets it too so it's not unbalanced.

actually it doesn't profit on the exploit on the same scales like human players do. e.g. it couldn't wait for the forest to spread on a hill before it built a mine on it.

as for the trading posts: why should a trading post in the woods be better then one in a grass land? in a forest you bandits would have an easier way to rob merchants. there shouldn't just be any yield difference whether you place a improvement into a forest or not if it is not a improvement which functionally is not related to woods in any way.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I'm sorry killtech but that's just a bunch of baloney. And you didn't even offer any mustard for that poormans sandwich.

We can't even seem to speak on the same level. A real shame it is.

JosEPh

 

[Afforess]

We can't even seem to speak on the same level. A real shame it is.

JosEPh

It truly is saddening; but we don't get much to work with here. You just reject everything we do out of hand, with no explanations.

 

[os79]

It truly is saddening; but we don't get much to work with here. You just reject everything we do out of hand, with no explanations.

Indeed, that is sad :hand Afforess a tissue and cry on my own tissue:. And, even more shamefully is this; that I have Noble at maximum and I'm willing to accept Killtech's work in my game because I find that it is far more balanced than ever before .