Beyond Earth Factions
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CaterpillarKing
Conqueror of Cacoons
By its end and even middle the HRE was pretty weak and in shambles. It was neither holy, not roman, nor an empire. It reached its peak under Barbarossa but then just bottomed out when the pope put a trillion restrictions on him.
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Guandao
Rajah of Minyue, Hlai and Langkasuka
So this Daoming Sochua... of the Panasian Cooperative...
Judging by her name, Daoming is Chinese, yet more suited for a male
Sochua is a Khmer/Cambodian surname, same as a Cambodian female politician
So she is Cambodian Chinese apparently.
I can't wait to see the other faction leaders. I wonder if their names will be from diverse backgrounds. The American Reclamation leader having a part-Spanish name, for example.
Judging by her name, Daoming is Chinese, yet more suited for a male
Sochua is a Khmer/Cambodian surname, same as a Cambodian female politician
So she is Cambodian Chinese apparently.
I can't wait to see the other faction leaders. I wonder if their names will be from diverse backgrounds. The American Reclamation leader having a part-Spanish name, for example.
CleverFool
Warlord
I'm with you Krajzen in hoping that the game won't be too Euro-centric. It would be great to have a distinct India, Africa, etc.
EDIT: The fact that so many previously underdeveloped nations (Nigeria, for example) are undergoing such rapid industrial growth makes me think the political environment a few hundred years from now would look fairly different.
Other users have brought up the excellent fact that the main powers oftentimes stay in power for a reason, but I think it would be great to explore what COULD happen and better represent previously underrepresented powers.
EDIT: The fact that so many previously underdeveloped nations (Nigeria, for example) are undergoing such rapid industrial growth makes me think the political environment a few hundred years from now would look fairly different.
Other users have brought up the excellent fact that the main powers oftentimes stay in power for a reason, but I think it would be great to explore what COULD happen and better represent previously underrepresented powers.
CaterpillarKing
Conqueror of Cacoons
Perhaps something previously unwanted was found in enormous quantities in these now third-world nations and it caused a massive economic boom.
Also, I see a high possibility of an Antarctic Faction. It would e a heavy mix of cultures. As it stands there are enormous amounts of resources hidden in Antarctica. Miles of ice an a UN law says no one is allowed to exploit Antarctica. But in the future if there is no UN, and environmental problems melt ice and there is a demand for new resources, then nations may colonize the South Pole. Them, much like America did it could rebel against its many coloniZers and create one very ethnically diverse nation. Then, with its many resources it could grow into a very powerful industrial power and fund a space program. If the Earth were hotter it would be easily possible. Just my 2 cents.
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If I had to guess how the world will look like in the BE - like future, I would say it is dominated by Pacific Area. Historically speaking:
- in ancient era the middle of world economy was in the Middle East, with Indian Ocean connecting it with India
- later also Mediterranean basin
- in medieval times the middle of world economy was arguably again Middle East connected via Mediterranean with Europe and via Indian Ocean with East Asia
- Europeans started colonization and North Atlantic became the major hub
- its peak was in early 20th century when it connected USA and Europe
- currently Pacific Ocean is going to replace it, as it connects USA, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Latin American economies, China, Japan, Korea and emerging SEA markets
Europe is in my opinion demographically and morally dying - and I, as European, don't say it with terror because every civilization has its end. Beside this personal opinion, it is true that percentage of European population and GDP of the world total indicators is falling and falling and christian Europe isn't apparently going to suddenly return to its imperial period. Islam world is in great turmoil and it can either enter the Renaissance and begin another golden era of intellect or fall even more in medieval religious fanaticism. Russia is demographically and morally dead and I cannot imagine it being powerful in the late 21st century, not to speak about 22nd. Africa is in absolutely tragic shape, lagging decades behind the entire world. I don't believe Africa can prosper in the 21st century, maybe in the far future.
Currently the entire subsaharan Africa shares ONE PERCENT of world GDP, manufacturing output, international trade and science. It has the worst poverty, the greatest epidemies and famines, it has - let's be honest - no intellectual tradition like for example China, it has a lot of autocratic and pathological regimes, it is extremely lagging in infrastructure, technology and quality of life, it is divided by extreme ethnic tensions, it has the greatest religious tensions in the modern world, it has countless military conflicts who are ongoing, sleeping or waiting to explode, it failed in every aspect since decolonization. Africa has 80 scientists per 100 000 citizens when compared with ~700 of India and ~1000 of developed world. The entire Africa has lesser technological patents than Estonia and still doesn't have any single Nobel Prize in medicine or science. This continent is going to be the only area of the world facing dramatic increase of population and this population boom is far bigger than GDP growth, which by the way is caused by international resource corporations and doesn't really develop African manufacturing.
But this situation can't be so bad in EACH African country, right? Well, I have been interested in Africa for a long time, and I am going to risk saying that there is not a single highly developed, properly functioning African country.
Let's look at the biggest 'powers' of Africa.
Ethiopia - one of the poorest countries in the world, with extremely bad quality of life and massive famines.
Kenya - one of the most developed countries of East Africa. 1,802$ GDP per capita. Better not speak about Human Development Indicator.
Ghana - 'African Switzerland'. Suffering on economical stagnation. 1900$ GDP per capita.
Nigeria - Is on the first positions of such world rankings as: the least peaceful country, the most pathological country, the greatest terrorism, the worst infrastructure, the worst electricity problems. 11 milions children in Nigeria doesn't attend to primary school, not to speak about higher education. Currently there is almost a civil war between christians and muslims. 2000$ GDP per capita.
South Africa - bad news boys. Current SA HDI is smaller than it was in 1970 and falling, unemployment is ~25%, the country has almost the greatest crime rate and social inequality in the world, 40 000 people are dying in SA each year from gun fire. Genocide Watch organisation rates South Africa as one of the countries in the world closest to the genocide - since 1994 70 000 white people were murdered in racial attacks and count is dramatically rising with every year. Popularity of anti - white extreme politicans is rising.
Oh, and fun fact. Africa is going to suffer the most from global warming. This is going to extend the range of tropical diseases, reduce crops in tropical regions and make great environmental problems in the Sahel zone. I don't remember particular numbers and indicators but they were pretty terrifying (crops decrease in many ares by something like 10%, in Africa this means cataclysm)
Good luck.
By the way, I still can't understand why Western media are exaggerating Western economical problems to the point of Armageddon while talking about Third World as well as it was about to suddenly become economical superpower (The Myth of African Rise).
Well, Beyond Earth future is relatively far but I really don't see bright future for Africa so far. China in 1970s was somewhere on the level of poorest African countries, it managed to achieve insane economical rise via the greatest industrialization and reduction of poverty in the human history but even then it is going to take 50 years since the beginning of reconstruction until China finally will be highly developed world superpower (currently it has medium quality of life, although situation is quickly improving). And we are speaking about the fastest economical uprise ever, in a country with very long imperial and intellectual traditions, with almost nonexistent racial and religious tensions when compared with Africa, without dramatic growth of population, tropical diseases and political instability (well China has different problems with its autocratic regime). I seriously don't see the imperial future for Africa before 22nd century...
...I still think it should have its own faction in BE (United African Company?) but let's be careful
CaterpillarKing
Conqueror of Cacoons
What if everything in Africa sub-Saharan or below is wasteland from war? That is very possible in 200 years
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Guandao
Rajah of Minyue, Hlai and Langkasuka
American Reclamation Corporatocracy: Economic? Food/Growth?
Franco-Iberia or Egypt: Cultural?
Lancor
Prince
For tech it could be either a global super Corp or maybe India or Japan?
A scientific transnational corporation would be nice, but I don't think India and Japan (specially the later) are going to be independent factions.
(Apologies for not entirely duplicating your post, if anyone wants to read it, its like four above mine anyway)
I disagree that Europe is dying, it feels like a generalization.
Some countries were hit incredibly hard by the recent recession, and it's hard to see them coming out of it as a first world nation. Countries like Spain, Greece, and to an extent, Italy.
But you can't say the same for all of Europe. The UK is doing pretty well, the Olympics were a great boost to most of the country (I say this as a Londoner), and a lot of Northern Europe (The Netherlands, and most of Scandinavia) are doing well out of the recession too. Maybe Europe isn't dying, just changing.
Also, the view that Europe is morally bad is hard to swallow.
You posted yourself the massive turmoil in Africa. In terms of tensions and religious conflict, the situation is similar north of the Sahara. And let's face it, claiming that any body or bodies of power have any sort of moral code is incorrect anyway
I have too disagree that the UK is fine. London is and honestly you operate in your own little world.( and London benefited from the Olympics)
Europe is changing and the UK need to be apart of it or the UK need to join with some other alliance anybody who thinks the UK will be fine is wrong. London will be because the UK makes most of its money from the financial sector and that's located in London.
So back too the game If India is in I see them being Cultural or Religious they have a history spanning a huge amount of time and 3 religious beliefs were founded there why not take advantage of that?
Well of course it was generalization. And by the way I also think UK is doing well
But most of Europe outside of UK, France, Germany remains either in serious economic problems or demographic/cultural problems (massive increase of immigrant percentage, especially Muslims).However it remains fact that European share in global population/GDP is constantly falling.
I mean not 'Europe is evil colonialism/abortion/whatever' but... Uhm, this is very sophisticated stuff and I am not sure whether I should post it here
I'm not sure whether Western civilization believes in itself and whether it has the ability to sacrifice anything for the sake of better future.
Anyway, I don't like the fact that the entire East Asia is packed in 'Panasian Cooperative' while there is separate faction only including France/Spain/Portugal. It seems like yet another case of Eurocentrism. Also, isn't the idea of France + Spain being economically equal to China + Korea + Japan in the far future ridiculous?
Just please, please don't include India in Panasian Cooperative, this would be extremely extremely stupid. Like including all countries from USA through Europe to the entire Russia in a single faction.
In the same time I would include black Africa as a single general international faction (like African Trade Company) but this is caused by - relatively - bad situation of particular African countries, so it is hard to imagine Africa could compete with such giants as Panasian Cooperative without some kind of 'unification'.
Again, many things can change in the future but Africa has very pessimistic predictions for at least 21st century so far.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
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- 12,418
Remember both Great Mistake and 200-250 years into the future.
They mentioned the possibility that there was a nuclear exchange on the subcontinent (India)
Also the PAC gets production bonuses, whichin Civ means communist.
So If they have a True PAC, I'd see a back story like
2050-2150
"Minor" nuclear war in India
Civil war/revolutions in China/Japan due to 'Great Mistake' effects and demographic problems
2150-2250
Neo communist/socialist revolutions throughout Asia (recalling 'good old days')
China takes the lead in 'helping' revolutionaries throughout Asia over throw their government
Forms PanAsian Cooperative....consists of all of Asia except parts of Middle East
(Counter revolutionaries there supported by African Free States bogs PAC down in guerilla warfare that causes problems in the Central Asian regions...PAC focuses on managing internal dissent and space race.
They mentioned the possibility that there was a nuclear exchange on the subcontinent (India)
Also the PAC gets production bonuses, whichin Civ means communist.
So If they have a True PAC, I'd see a back story like
2050-2150
"Minor" nuclear war in India
Civil war/revolutions in China/Japan due to 'Great Mistake' effects and demographic problems
2150-2250
Neo communist/socialist revolutions throughout Asia (recalling 'good old days')
China takes the lead in 'helping' revolutionaries throughout Asia over throw their government
Forms PanAsian Cooperative....consists of all of Asia except parts of Middle East
(Counter revolutionaries there supported by African Free States bogs PAC down in guerilla warfare that causes problems in the Central Asian regions...PAC focuses on managing internal dissent and space race.
Personally I don't believe in communist Chinese regime lasting so long. Most of these pathological states fell really quickly after their creation, Soviet Union lasted the longest: 70 years. Current Chinese regime is 70 years old but it is already hardly socialist - from what I have read about modern China, not only economy is de facto capitalist but democracy and decentralization in China is in better state that in... Russia. So China is basically capitalist quicly developing state under the mask of communist regime, while Russia is basically autocratic militaristic regime under the mask of democracy
I don't believe in Chinese return to the 'good old ways' of... Umh... Great Famine and death of millions? Especially as modern Chinese regime doesn't even entirely hide these fails, rather says 'Mao's life was 70% glorious and 30% fail' (similar to post 1956 Stalin image in Soviet Union). Of course the country is far from being democratic but it has rather Autocracy ideology with Freedom economy rather than Order ideology/economy. And it is opening on the world more and more.
The same thing is happening in Vietnam which follows Chinese economic reforms and is very slowly becoming less opressive; Vietnamese GDP growth is one of the fastest in the world and, as in the case of China, Vietnam has achieved very impressive reduction of national poverty in the last decades.
Even Burma, one of the most isolationist countries in the world, is recently slowly improving and developing. Again, it is far from being a democracy, but apparently military caste has realized how much destruction socialist way of Burma has made. Hell, Aung San Suu Kyi, the winner of Nobel Peace Prize and my idol, is going to candidate in 2015 presidential elections - it is huge leap forward towards better situation in Burma, even if in the end military caste will 'rig the elections'
So where exactly do you see any chance for Ultra - Communist regime in East Asia? Especially in the era of Internet, when there is stronger and stronger resistance among the young Chinese against the government (which can't entirely shut down this movement)? Yeah there is Laos and North Korea here, two pariah states with absolutely tragic economies and 0 impact on the outside world. Also remember about anti - communist Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and also Cambodia - all these countries except from Cambodia are also really developed nations
(Indonesia, Philippines and India are also not big fans of communism...)
To sum up, if Panasian Cooperative is China + SEA + India Communist Organisation I will be very disappointed. At least put India in the separate faction, please. Or if Firaxis doesn't want to annoy Chinese government, don't portrayal China as purely capitalist/communist
(although I think Firaxis can simply do the same think with China as with Chinese leader in Civ4: China is portrayed as some kind of democracy while in Chinese market the game is modified with Chinese Communist state In Civ4 Chinese officials didn't like putting Mao as game leader so Chinese version of game had instead some Chinese emperor)
I don't believe in Chinese return to the 'good old ways' of... Umh... Great Famine and death of millions? Especially as modern Chinese regime doesn't even entirely hide these fails, rather says 'Mao's life was 70% glorious and 30% fail' (similar to post 1956 Stalin image in Soviet Union). Of course the country is far from being democratic but it has rather Autocracy ideology with Freedom economy rather than Order ideology/economy. And it is opening on the world more and more.
The same thing is happening in Vietnam which follows Chinese economic reforms and is very slowly becoming less opressive; Vietnamese GDP growth is one of the fastest in the world and, as in the case of China, Vietnam has achieved very impressive reduction of national poverty in the last decades.
Even Burma, one of the most isolationist countries in the world, is recently slowly improving and developing. Again, it is far from being a democracy, but apparently military caste has realized how much destruction socialist way of Burma has made. Hell, Aung San Suu Kyi, the winner of Nobel Peace Prize and my idol, is going to candidate in 2015 presidential elections - it is huge leap forward towards better situation in Burma, even if in the end military caste will 'rig the elections'
So where exactly do you see any chance for Ultra - Communist regime in East Asia? Especially in the era of Internet, when there is stronger and stronger resistance among the young Chinese against the government (which can't entirely shut down this movement)? Yeah there is Laos and North Korea here, two pariah states with absolutely tragic economies and 0 impact on the outside world. Also remember about anti - communist Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and also Cambodia - all these countries except from Cambodia are also really developed nations
(Indonesia, Philippines and India are also not big fans of communism...)To sum up, if Panasian Cooperative is China + SEA + India Communist Organisation I will be very disappointed. At least put India in the separate faction, please. Or if Firaxis doesn't want to annoy Chinese government, don't portrayal China as purely capitalist/communist
(although I think Firaxis can simply do the same think with China as with Chinese leader in Civ4: China is portrayed as some kind of democracy while in Chinese market the game is modified with Chinese Communist state
In Civ4 Chinese officials didn't like putting Mao as game leader so Chinese version of game had instead some Chinese emperor)
Lord Shadow
Admiral
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2005
- Messages
- 2,177
I really doubt the PAC will include the majority of Asian countries. China and Southeast Asia, sure, but I don't think they'd bundle such an iconic nation as Japan with it.
I suppose it comes down to a simple distribution of numbers. There's 8 factions.
I suppose it comes down to a simple distribution of numbers. There's 8 factions.
- Can we assume the Americas are covered with the ARC and Brazilia, DLC potential aside?
- Would the remaining 6 be divided equally between Europe and Asia?
- A Franco-Iberian union seems rather unambitious, considering the tight amount of spots and the number of European countries, but it's there. I figure Britain will have to exist in some fashion (maybe bundled with Australia and chunks of Canada?), as will Russia. That's 3 factions, but leaves aside major players like Germany and Scandinavia. DLC fodder or wastelands, maybe...
- There's also the possibility of a 4-2 split between Europe and Asia, which unceremoniously throws the following out of the window. I really wouldn't want to see the whole of Asia mostly compressed in two entities.
- For Asia we have the PAC, and I'd personally group Japan and Korea together as a super-technological faction. Can't have dystopic futures without Japanese megacorporate zaibatsu. India is tough, being so big and unique, but I doubt it'd stand alone, if only because there's one spot remaining and we somehow have to cover the Middle East and Egypt. Either the Indian subcontinent would absorb the working parts of that region, or be split up between the PAC to the east and a Middle Eastern power to the west.
- Africa is sadly left aside, perhaps only represented if the aforementioned Middle East faction is centered around Egypt.
It depends on whether or not Franco-Iberia is the only European faction in the game. If it is, which is unlikely in my opinion, then Europe will be less "covered" than Asia.
Also, isn't the idea of France + Spain being economically equal to China + Korea + Japan in the far future ridiculous?
I do agree with you, but I don't think it really matters. While China, Korea and Japan can be richer, maybe "Franco-Iberia" is rich just enough to send their space expeditions; maybe the aforementioned Asian nations still exist independently and the Pan-Asian Cooperative is merely a joint operation to sponsor space expeditions - and thus isn't as rich as its members, individually or combined.
Another possible situation: maybe "Brasilia" is one of the 8 seafaring factions not because it became highly developed, but rather because of a strong, populist, Tropico like presidente obsessed with the space race and sinking the county's already scarce resources and poor economy on it - much like North Korea and its nuclear weapons. I would hate this, but if "Brasilia" is going to be a militaristic faction, then a military coup is an explanation.
Finally, I'm not well versed in the space program of different countries, but I suspect there are countries much more developed in this field than its richer counterparts. Brazil, for instance, is the 7th economy but its space-related things are always exploding and failing to launch.
You're forgetting the possibility of transnational corporations. Actually I think it's more than a "possibility", since they mentioned them a couple times by now. Considering we already now half of the factions (besides Egypt/Middle East), there isn't much room for nations of any continent.
