Beyond The Sword is Coming!

[Brad Oliver]

I have to ask. You've worked on Civ3 and 4 and I assume BTS. After all these years of seeing the game over and over again, are you completely burned out on the game at the end of the day?

I didn't work much on Warlords or BtS, so I'm not nearly as burned out as I was the day we shipped Civ4. Sometimes those feelings are amplified if there are non-technical issues that I have no immediate control over. It's kind of a drag, for example, to come into this forum and continue to read posts about changing Amazon ship dates, the subsequent disappointment, the Great Press Release Disaster of 2009, and what have you.

But you're mostly right: it sometimes takes years after I'm done with a game for me to be able to truly enjoy it as a game.

 

[gfeier]

I didn't work much on Warlords or BtS, so I'm not nearly as burned out as I was the day we shipped Civ4. Sometimes those feelings are amplified if there are non-technical issues that I have no immediate control over. It's kind of a drag, for example, to come into this forum and continue to read posts about changing Amazon ship dates, the subsequent disappointment, the Great Press Release Disaster of 2009, and what have you.

But you're mostly right: it sometimes takes years after I'm done with a game for me to be able to truly enjoy it as a game.

Almost seems unfair, since we get to enjoy it right away. So fess up, Brad, what games do you REALLY enjoy these days (even if they're not from Aspyr)?

 

[Brad Oliver]

Almost seems unfair, since we get to enjoy it right away. So fess up, Brad, what games do you REALLY enjoy these days (even if they're not from Aspyr)?

I do a lot of gaming on the Xbox 360 and PS3, and I've found that I enjoy it simply because I don't feel the "competitive pressure" (for lack of a better phrase) that I would when I play games on the Mac.

With that said, while I'm not good at first-person shooters I've recently re-discovered the original Call of Duty. Something about the way it tells the story of WW2 is compelling to me.

I've also spent a lot of time with Tiger Woods '08 on the 360. I never fancied myself as a golf or sports game person, but I worked on Tiger '05 for the Mac back in the day and discovered then that I really enjoyed the Tiger Woods games. It has a certain RPG aspect to as you create a golfer and gradually improve your stats that is compelling.

I've also been playing Age of Booty, Braid, Flower, Carcassonne, Catan, Assassin's Creed, Fable 2, Fallout 3, and Backgammon. ;-) My 360 and PS3 gamertags are "hoserama99" if anyone is curious enough to see. My wife has fallen in love with Fable 2 and Tiger Woods 08, which I think is a testament to their broad appeal.

Within the past few years, I've also spent a lot of time playing board games, specifically the style known as eurogames - stuff like Settlers of Catan and the like. I frequent boardgamegeek.com.

 

[Joey Numbaz]

Thanks for the info Brad . . . Just got this seconds ago . . .

Hello from Amazon.com.

We wanted to let you know that there is an unexpected delay with your video game order (Order# xxx-xxxxxxx-xxxxxxx) you placed on July 14 2009. Unfortunately, we are unable to ship the product(s) as soon as we expected and need to provide you with a new estimate of when they may be delivered:

"Civilization 4: Beyond The Sword"
Estimated arrival date: August 10 2009 - August 18 2009

We apologize for the inconvenience caused by this delay.

 

[beetle]

Brad, any idea (and can you say) if Civ4 Complete will be offered for Mac?

I would like to gift my Civ4 Mac to a relative. I don’t mind repurchasing the main game. And having waited this long for BtS, I do not mind waiting a few months longer for Complete. I also do not care if Colonization is included or not.

Thanks.

 

[cmason]

Brad, any idea (and can you say) if Civ4 Complete will be offered for Mac?

I would like to gift my Civ4 Mac to a relative. I don’t mind repurchasing the main game. And having waited this long for BtS, I do not mind waiting a few months longer for Complete. I also do not care if Colonization is included or not.

Thanks.

Well, I asked before if anything else came with Civ IV Complete other than the original Civ IV, Warlords and Beyond the Sword, and he said no, just all that put together. If Colonization *were* to be included, I would actually wait, despite owning Civ IV and Warlords.

I *detest* the idea of the game colonization, it's offensive in the extreme, but if I ignore that, the gameplay is awesome (I played the original back in the early nineties, or whenever it was.) I loved the original. I know it's obscene and I feel guilty for playing it. I guess I just imagine it's an alternate world where the Europeans didn't just invade and kill everyone. It's the same way I like Stargate SG-1. In that show, the US Air Force are the good guys. In real life, not so much. So, I just assume it's an alternate reality.

 

[dojoboy]

It's the same way I like Stargate SG-1. In that show, the US Air Force are the good guys. In real life, not so much. So, I just assume it's an alternate reality.

There are certainly differing opinions on this.

 

[cmason]

There are certainly differing opinions on this.

Well, I was just commenting on my personal mental processes necessary to enjoy a show.

But if you want to get political, I'd say the US Air Force (and US forces in general) were definitely the good guys in WW2. They killed millions in each of Korea and Vietnam (not to mention Laos and Cambodia) during the Korean and Vietnam wars, including the wholescale destruction of infrastructure and farmland, not to mention chemical weapons and napalm, and I would challenge you to call that anything but bad (if not simply evil.) Calling it a "mistake" or "regrettable" is even worse, as it completely trivializes the lives lost. (That's a dig at the left, just so you don't think I'm singling out the right. Truman and LBJ were both democrats after all.)

I won't even touch the recent wars in Iraq (both of them) and Afghanistan.

 

[AlanH]

Well, I asked before if anything else came with Civ IV Complete other than the original Civ IV, Warlords and Beyond the Sword, and he said no, just all that put together. If Colonization *were* to be included, I would actually wait, despite owning Civ IV and Warlords.

As far as I can tell, Brad has only posted about the content of the Civ4 Complete package for Windows, and he said that includes Colonization. Actually, when I bought it, it didn't include Colonization, as it was not released at that time.

Brad has not said anything about whether a Civ4 Complete package for Mac OS X will be produced at all, and so none of his posts have indicated what it might contain.

The previous releases of Civ4 Complete for Windows set a precedent for a Mac version to include whatever Aspyr has available at the time, which may or may not include Colonization.

 

[cmason]

As far as I can tell, Brad has only posted about the content of the Civ4 Complete package for Windows, and he said that includes Colonization. Actually, when I bought it, it didn't include Colonization, as it was not released at that time.

Brad has not said anything about whether a Civ4 Complete package for Mac OS X will be produced at all, and so none of his posts have indicated what it might contain.

The previous releases of Civ4 Complete for Windows set a precedent for a Mac version to include whatever Aspyr has available at the time, which may or may not include Colonization.

Well, up in the thread a bit, I said I owned CIV IV and Warlords for Mac and asked if there was any reason to hold out for Complete, as opposed to buying Beyond the Sword and he said no, go ahead.

 

[dojoboy]

Well, I was just commenting on my personal mental processes necessary to enjoy a show.

But if you want to get political, I'd say the US Air Force (and US forces in general) were definitely the good guys in WW2. They killed millions in each of Korea and Vietnam (not to mention Laos and Cambodia) during the Korean and Vietnam wars, including the wholescale destruction of infrastructure and farmland, not to mention chemical weapons and napalm, and I would challenge you to call that anything but bad (if not simply evil.) Calling it a "mistake" or "regrettable" is even worse, as it completely trivializes the lives lost. (That's a dig at the left, just so you don't think I'm singling out the right. Truman and LBJ were both democrats after all.)

I won't even touch the recent wars in Iraq (both of them) and Afghanistan.

My father was retired Air Force. He's certainly a good guy. Infrastructure (and farmland) gets destroyed in war. It is important to limit the enemy's ability to wage war, as in Civ4. Ever destroy a farm in Civ4? How is that unlike Colonization, the game?

 

[Brad Oliver]

Well, I asked before if anything else came with Civ IV Complete other than the original Civ IV, Warlords and Beyond the Sword, and he said no, just all that put together.

I may not have been clear then. Civ4 Complete includes Civ4, Warlords, BtS and Colonization. They are, AFAIK, otherwise identical to their other incarnations.

 

[AlanH]

Well, up in the thread a bit, I said I owned CIV IV and Warlords for Mac and asked if there was any reason to hold out for Complete, as opposed to buying Beyond the Sword and he said no, go ahead.

But he would say that, wouldn't he? He can't tell you to wait for Mac Colonization to be included, even if it is planned! It isn't an announced product in any shape or form.

 

[Brad Oliver]

Brad, any idea (and can you say) if Civ4 Complete will be offered for Mac?

For us to release a product called "Civ4 Complete", we'd be obligated to include Colonization, I believe. So if we alter your question slightly to "will there be a bundle with Civ4, Warlords and BtS on the Mac", I can honestly say I do not know.

 

[Beamup]

It isn't an announced product in any shape or form.

Officially, neither is BTS.

 

[cmason]

I may not have been clear then. Civ4 Complete includes Civ4, Warlords, BtS and Colonization. They are, AFAIK, otherwise identical to their other incarnations.

Okay, cool. I'm sure I'll buy Beyond the Sword immediately anyway since I have been waiting a long time for it.

Thanks.

 

[Brad Oliver]

As far as I can tell, Brad has only posted about the content of the Civ4 Complete package for Windows, and he said that includes Colonization. Actually, when I bought it, it didn't include Colonization, as it was not released at that time.

So some googling shows that the North American version of Complete shipped in 2009 and with Colonization. In other territories (e.g. the UK) it seems this was not the case as you note. In any event, the answer is "I don't know". ;-)

 

[AlanH]

Officially, neither is BTS.

Well, regardless of the lack of a press release, I think we went beyond that point when Aspyr published (and then pulled) a release page, and Amazon and Play.com started taking advance orders for it. Nothing like that has happened for Colonization ...

 

[dannythefool]

So some googling shows that the North American version of Complete shipped in 2009 and with Colonization. In other territories (e.g. the UK) it seems this was not the case as you note. In any event, the answer is "I don't know". ;-)

Seems in Europe I can get a "Complete" that doesn't have Colonization, but there is a separate "Ultimate" package that includes it. Price point is about 30 Euro. EDIT: Apparently the Ultimate package contains two discs, one is labeled "Complete" and contains CIV and the two addons while the other one contains Colonization.

<rant>
As opposed to CIV Vanilla for Macintosh which is still at 50 Euro to which you would have to add 30 Euro for Mac Warlords and another 30 for BtS. Cheapest deal for Mac appears to be CIV Gold at Euro 55 plus the projected 30 for BtS. At 55 Euro == 64% Mac tax you can almost buy a cheap copy of WinXP off ebay to run Win CIV and save money while getting better performance (unless BtS Mac performance improves over vanilla). Or if minor graphical glitches aren't an issue, you can run Win CIV in CrossOver (37 Euro for CO Games, saves 18 Euro, more if you use it for other Windows games) or in self-compiled wine (saves the full 55 Euro Mac tax, but requires a bit of time and knowledge to set up. As a bonus you get to apply a patch that fixes the progress bars that CO doesn't include). How can Aspyr expect to make money at all with this...
</rant>

 

[Beamup]

Well, regardless of the lack of a press release, I think we went beyond that point when Aspyr published (and then pulled) a release page, and Amazon and Play.com started taking advance orders for it. Nothing like that has happened for Colonization ...

Entirely true. I'm simply being pointlessly pedantic and nitpicky to be silly, hence the