Biplanes

[AerisDraco]

This doesn't really deserve it's own thread, but nonetheless, I would like to point it out.

From the current leaked tech tree, it seems (at least to me) unlikely at best for Biplanes to cost any resources, considering Aluminum (in Civ5 for Jet Fighters) is two techs ahead, and Oil, the resource that has been used for fighters (and in Civ5, the Triplane) is unlocked not only on a different branch of the tree (though about that, Firaxis doesn't care {case in point, the Cavalry, Helicopter, Jet Fighter, etc...}) but, more importantly in my opinion, ahead of Flight.

Now, I realize this is a definite leap in logic, but it does seem interesting that Firaxis would make such a design decision, even if they do cost resources.

As for the implications, a free air unit means that anyone (especially human players) can stack planes to high heaven. And considering that, as far as we can tell, ranged units haven't been nerfed too much, expect stacks of Biplanes in the cities of many players, as long as the no-resource cost proves to be true. (Of course, it's unlikely, but still...)

And yes, I do realize the tech tree isn't complete by any means.

 

[Jaybe]

As for the implications, a free air unit means that anyone (especially human players) can stack planes to high heaven.

How can you say that when you don't know what the stacking limits of air units is, or even if they can be based in cities (and can only be based on airfields). Civ6 is not Civ5!

 

[ToothedBomb]

I hope they keep it this way. It always felt really bad in Civ V to find out you didn't have any oil. It basically keeps you from engaging with a whole layer of the combat system.

Perhaps limit the amount of aircraft you can have at one time through buildings or districts, so they can level up through techs and such.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

It's also possible that the Biplane is weaker relative to contemporary land units than the fighter is--that would also balance the Biplane being resourceless.

 

[magha77]

yeah, have a feeling that you have to have an airstrip or airport for them

 

[Talcove]

How can you say that when you don't know what the stacking limits of air units is, or even if they can be based in cities (and can only be based on airfields). Civ6 is not Civ5!

Air units can bombard districts, though. That's pretty powerful, considering how important districts are. Resource free air units would mean that districts would be in serious trouble.

 

[ftl]

I thought I heard at some point that air combat was going to be a somewhat different now. But not being one of the meticulous folks on this board, I don't have a source.

I wouldn't mind hordes of biplanes though

 

[Rusty Edge]

Civ IV airships were resourceless.
I could see biplanes playing that part. Historically they could run on alcohol and were lubricated with mixtures of castor oil.

 

[Olleus]

Oh god, the Civ4 airships (introduced in Beyond the Sword?) were bloody awful. You want to be having fun with riflemen and artillery, but the AI spams tons of airships before anyone has a reliable way to shoot them down. Were too weak to do anything, but completely broke immersion. Imagine if the crimean war had been mostly about blimps slowly colliding in mid air above the towers of sevastopol!

Ok, that sounds like a cool steampunk scenario, but not the way you want renaissance/early industrial to be portrayed in Civ

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Oh god, the Civ4 airships (introduced in Beyond the Sword?) were bloody awful. You want to be having fun with riflemen and artillery, but the AI spams tons of airships before anyone has a reliable way to shoot them down. Were too weak to do anything, but completely broke immersion. Imagine if the crimean war had been mostly about blimps slowly colliding in mid air above the towers of sevastopol!

Ok, that sounds like a cool steampunk scenario, but not the way you want renaissance/early industrial to be portrayed in Civ

If the airships are indeed back, at least they are available in parallel with Biplanes to counter them. And at Flight, so they aren't hideously ahistorical.

 

[Atlas627]

How can you say that when you don't know what the stacking limits of air units is, or even if they can be based in cities (and can only be based on airfields). Civ6 is not Civ5!

THIS

We've seen airbase improvement/districts of some sort. That may only hold 2 planes until you build buildings in it or discover techs. And the buildings may require techs after biplanes.

So if you can only have 2 biplanes, and only if you build a district, that's not something the human is going to abuse much more than the AI. And the AI can probably build a district and 2 biplanes, too.

However, having a resourceless but weak plane may be a good thing. It would allow everyone to at least somewhat defend themselves in the air, as well as allow anyone to make some use of rushing Flight even if they end up with no oil.

 

[Jaybe]

We also don't know that biplanes/fighters can damage buildings/districts. I would prefer they only be used for recon, anti-air, and attacking ground/naval units; though fighters interdicting roads would be great.

As I recall the combat engineer constructs the airfield, so it isn't a district though it does (of course) take up a hex.

 

[Krajzen]

If the airships are indeed back, at least they are available in parallel with Biplanes to counter them. And at Flight, so they aren't hideously ahistorical.

Airships would be hideously ahistorical at the very first moment they appeared as the regular military unit, because their military uses were very few, very limited (in scope and success), and very quickly completely outdated. After all, the 'golden age' of airships lasted what, 30 years?

Airships were less used in warfare than chemical weapons, train artillery and WW2 horse cavalry, and putting them in game in any form as mass produced reliable military unit is already science fantasy (not even alternate history because they could never have any chances of survival and competition against planes, helicopters, anti air cannons and even some decently heavy infantry weaponry - and not even science fiction because their fundamental weaknesses were impossible to avoid).


As for the main topic, I hope this time only a limited amount of aircraft can be in a single city, because plane stacks of civ5 wiping anything approaching the city were ridiculous, not to mention micromanaging involved to control swarms of planes every turn. I hope either the number of plane units is limited or UI for controlling them is better.
Also, for the love of God, please no guided missiles (those standalone non nuclear projectiles). Terrible unit - in 90% of cases completely useless, in the remaining 10% annoying and impossible to counter.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Something I'd like to see added to Civ 6 in an enxpasion pack is to see a line of units added that don't require any resources.

Because in herently Mounted units in Civ 5 were desiged NOT to take any cities.

And if Saltpeter is required for gunpowder then that means that a civ who misses out on both Iron and Saltpeter means they'll have to MAYBE rely on Horses if they got it.

I'd like a seperate but significantly weaker line of units that don't require resources so that armies who missed out can survive. I don't know if realistic or even possible but balance-wise I'd say potentially necessary.

 

[Jaybe]

Something I'd like to see added to Civ 6 in an enxpasion pack is to see a line of units added that don't require any resources.

Because in herently Mounted units in Civ 5 were desiged NOT to take any cities.

And if Saltpeter is required for gunpowder then that means that a civ who misses out on both Iron and Saltpeter means they'll have to MAYBE rely on Horses if they got it.

I'd like a seperate but significantly weaker line of units that don't require resources so that armies who missed out can survive. I don't know if realistic or even possible but balance-wise I'd say potentially necessary.

Just as there is (or SHOULD be) some tech diffusion, some small amount of resource diffusion (i.e. smuggling) should be enabled after a period of time. In fact, how are armies going to be primarily muskets if each one requires a niter(?) resource?