BNW vs. EU4 release

[Martinus]

Not sure if this is on-topic or not, but seeing how many people here seem to be also fans of Paradox games, I just wanted to comment on the information policy of Firaxis vs. Paradox with these two new close releases.

The game is to be released next week and already Paradox has published over 40 developer diaries, including one each day this week, discussing all aspects of the game at length, from new features, to the way the AI responds to diplomacy or warfare etc. There is barely any information drought - sure there is probably much more to learn about the game still, but the info is volunteered openly and freely, with no half-gueses or teases or misleading points, or a scant Q&A - each aspect of the game is discussed at length by the developers who then answer each and every question in real time in a forum thread.

Don't get me wrong, I love Firaxis and I love their games, but there is a lot about treating fans with respect they could learn from Paradox.

 

[nunor]

They're different games. For instance, everyone knows that a Paradox game will feature 500 factions, including every tiny county or marquisate in its respective world map. There will never be big surprises there.

Whereas in Civilization, 'admission' is limited, and each nation is so unique (leaderscreen, unique abilities and units, etc) you actually create expectations. You get to speculate on which civilizations are worthy and which are not, you get to discuss your opinion on their unique abilities, or even on completely useless things, gameplay-wise, as leaderscreens, but that everyone loves and are an inalienable part of a Civilization game.

As I see it, that's why Firaxis chooses to keep us in suspense - it helps keeping the speculation and the game alive. And that's also why Civilization is a far more successful franchise than EU.

 

[Alexastor]

I think the bigger reason is that CiV is a lot more accessible and the complexity isn't thrown at you right away.

 

[marioflag]

EU4 is one of my most awaited releases and certainly is going to be one of the best Paradox games. The problem though is that with Paradox DLC policy you are going to spend more than 100 euros in less than a year if you buy it on release and want every piece of the game.

 

[Hyperion529]

i think the biggest reason is that the civ franchise has a much wider and bigger target audience than paradox games and that marketing including "community relations" are handled by their publisher 2k. i doubt that you could attribute this difference in communication to the devs less caring about their fanbase or something like that...

 

[JustinianIV]

For those who don't know what EU4 stands for, it is Europa Universalis IV.

This game, along with Crusader Kings II, looks like the kind that I would probably get into were it not for Civ5.

I've been civing consistently for a year and am only now starting to feel I understand the essence of the game. I simply have no time or need for anything else even if they do look amazing.

Plus, as someone else said, Civ 5 has this uncanny way of drawing new players in.

 

[Merciorum]

Though EU4 is my more anticipated game, the fact remains that with such a complex game it makes more sense for so many more dev diaries to be around. With the simplicity of the Civ games, not so much.

 

[jjkrause84]

I'm very psyched for EU4. It gives me my "more realistic than it really needs to be" strategy fix.

 

[sherbz]

I know i may get shouted down by Paradox fans, but i find EU way too inaccessible and i think if it is to ever rival civ in terms of empire building it needs to be dumbed down. I also dont like the way its real time. I prefer turns

 

[JustinianIV]

I know i may get shouted down by Paradox fans, but i find EU way too inaccessible and i think if it is to ever rival civ in terms of empire building it needs to be dumbed down. I also dont like the way its real time. I prefer turns

Yes, I agree. I would love it if I could install something in my brain which made me know the mechanics.

Also, how does anyone find time to play Civ plus another historical strategy? I don't even have time to play another game fullstop.

 

[djvandyke]

Paradox games are indeed a pain to learn but brilliant once you get the hang of them.
EU4 looks more accessible than previous efforts.

Best way to lean is to watch some good walkthroughs on youtube.


Link to video.

 

[R0gue]

I've played both Series

EU Series and Civ Series

Here are a few comparisments, out of 10

Civ V

Replay factor - Deffo a - 10
Learning the games - Easy
If you want world war - 7
Micro Management - 9
Research Tech - 8 - wish there were more
Building Management - 9
Civilization Choices - 8
Specialist people - 5
Units Choices - 10
Fighting Mechanics - 10
Tactics - 8
History - 4
Map Choices - 10
Scenario, statisfaction - 7

EU3 + all add on

Replay factor - 8
Learning the game - V Hard
If you want a war game - 10
Micro Managment - 5
Research Tech -5 (just units though)
Building Managment - 5
Civilization Choices - 10
Specialist People - 10
Unit Choices - 10
Fighting Mechanics - 6
Tactics - 7
History - 10
Map Choices - There is only 1
Scenario Satisfaction 2 (same as the main game, but different starting date)

You may disagree with some of these scores, but overall. Civ 5 wins

 

[Sequitor]

In the lead up to BNW I took advantage of Steam sales and purchased both Victoria 2 and Crusader Kings 2. I logged between 50 and 100 hours separately playing each of them.

Both games have a very steep learning curve (10-15 hours of play time), but the Paradox forums are as welcoming and as friendly as Civ fanatics. Patience and long term planning matter a lot in both games. Changes unfold gradually over time. After learning the interface, this was my next biggest learning challenge. I enjoyed my time with both games and expect that I will return to them in time.

However, I find Civ 5 to be more fun, especially with all the changes introduced in BNW. All good strategy games offer a significant mental challenge. Being fun is a rarer attribute.

 

[dexters]

civ is high level, flexible 4x.

EU is a giant scenario with a lot of factions and bells and whistles. Not comparable.

And I prefer the flexible high level 4x. I've barely touched scenarios I get as part of buying expansions. They just don;'t interest me for the most part even though many Civ5 scenarios are apparently really awesome.

 

[mice]

EU is the game I want to love, but I'm a Civver at heart.

Maybe with EU4 I can break through and get to really understand what Im doing.

Trade routes seem to be a big feature in EU4 but BNW gazumped them.

 

[Makavcio]

Don't get me wrong, I love Firaxis and I love their games, but there is a lot about treating fans with respect they could learn from Paradox.

I haven't heard such a ridiculous statement in quite some time. Paradox has absolutely no respect for its consumer group and I STRONGLY URGE YOU NOT TO BUY EUROPA UNIVERSALIS IV FOR AT LEAST 3-6 MONTHS.

Paradox Interactive has a nasty habit of releasing not only unfinished games, but plainly not working titles. If any of you had bought EU3 in its early days, you must know what I mean. Some of the game's main features did not work for over 12 months after initial release and after several unsuccessful attempts to fix these issues, PI has just deleted them ruining balance of the game this way. Fixing it took another 3 months.

Do not buy the game now or you will end up as an alpha tester. This happened to me with Victoria II. The initial release, with the single exception of its graphics, is not even similar to what this game is like now. It was completely unplayable for months after initial release.

Other titles suffered even worse issues with performance. There were memory leaks that would cause games to crash after 5-15 minutes of gameplay.

Paradox Interactive people think that we can be their free beta testers. Not only free, but paying beta testers! Over my dead body. I'm surely going to buy the game, mostly because the idea behind it is marvelous, but I'll be doing it in 6 months, maybe much later, when the game moves from it current alpha development phase to at least beta testing. I've been fooled by Paradox Interactive trice already and I'm not falling for the same again.

 

[Randall_Flagg]

Love Paradox with all my heart. Not a chance in hades I will ever buy EU4. They really made me mad with this one. I may never buy another paradox game over EU4. Kind of sad what they done with this francise. I hate lazieness in my developers.

I do not want to get banned here like I did in Paradox forums, so I will leave it at that.

 

[liltrogdor]

I like EU 3, EU 4, and civ 5(I play EU 3 and civ 5). I think what civ 5 has better is terrain actually matters. For example if there is mountain range in front of you, it would be hard to kill the the other civ. For EU 3 the only terrain that i see as an obstacle are Siberian and Himalayan provinces. Either way once you learn EU 3 it's a fun a game but civ 5 is more accessible and fun.

 

[-Rodri-]

To be fair, HIO3 was a freacking mess, as V2 (a little less) at launch, but with patches they became great games.

CK2 was a very polished game at launch.

PI games are hard but very good if you invest time in them, CIV5 is (with BNW) an instant enjoyable game, from turn 1 of the first game.

 

[poom3619]

I haven't heard such a ridiculous statement in quite some time. Paradox has absolutely no respect for its consumer group and I STRONGLY URGE YOU NOT TO BUY EUROPA UNIVERSALIS IV FOR AT LEAST 3-6 MONTHS.

Paradox Interactive has a nasty habit of releasing not only unfinished games, but plainly not working titles. If any of you had bought EU3 in its early days, you must know what I mean. Some of the game's main features did not work for over 12 months after initial release and after several unsuccessful attempts to fix these issues, PI has just deleted them ruining balance of the game this way. Fixing it took another 3 months.

Do not buy the game now or you will end up as an alpha tester. This happened to me with Victoria II. The initial release, with the single exception of its graphics, is not even similar to what this game is like now. It was completely unplayable for months after initial release.

Other titles suffered even worse issues with performance. There were memory leaks that would cause games to crash after 5-15 minutes of gameplay.

Paradox Interactive people think that we can be their free beta testers. Not only free, but paying beta testers! Over my dead body. I'm surely going to buy the game, mostly because the idea behind it is marvelous, but I'll be doing it in 6 months, maybe much later, when the game moves from it current alpha development phase to at least beta testing. I've been fooled by Paradox Interactive trice already and I'm not falling for the same again.

I didn't saw how bad the EU3 vanilla are. But I had played the CiV vanilla and... oh dear.

I don't think your argument are valid, comparing a vanilla game to "completed" one.

Actually EUIV just had my imaginary money when I knew that you can convert CKII to EUIV and if you have Sunset Invasion DLC of CK2. You will meet Montezuma as you saw on the most of Civ series in EU4.

Azteca Universalis