Bonuses shouldn't get obsolete.

raxo2222 · Sep 13, 2017

If producers and consumers are all obsolete, then resources are effecticvely obsoleted.

Amish are people too and technology (actually built buildings/units/improvements) lags behind science a little (researched concepts).
For example teleportation is big culprit: it removes entire transport infrastructure before I can replace it with new infrastructure.

Legends says, that you still can hear shockwave vechicle dealersip screeching.

Spoiler :

This happens if you obsolete resource, that is needed for buildings before building gets obsoleted.
Screenshoted building never goes obsolete.

Here is list of resources, that get obsolete:
Natron (map resource), Automobiles, Books, Furs, Ivory, Saddles, Scrolls, Stone Tools, and Tablets (these stone ones

)
Resources shouldn't go obsolete for following reasons:
1. It may break buildings requiring them after moving techs too much.
2. They are effectively obsoleted after all producers and consumers go obsolete.
3. Its extremely arbitrary as of now - there is few hundreds of manufactured resources.

Probably somewhere some buildings get starved of resource, as last resource producers get obsoleted before last resource consumers.

Thunderbrd · Sep 13, 2017

Perhaps you are correct, except that we should possibly replace obsoletion with bans at times. Whales, for example, should be illegal by now in most of the world.

raxo2222 · Sep 13, 2017

Whale ban could be ordnance - you can already ban drugs, mormon buildings are so savage that they ban coffe, tobacco and tea (its total nosense with 30 religions present in city >.>) and national park bans coal (vanilla nonsense).

Also whale needing buildings all go obsolete eventually except corporation/culture ones - you can check it easily with sevopedia modmod.

Dancing Hoskuld · Sep 13, 2017

Disagree - resources should go obsolete as they are replaced. eg Stone Tools by (Steel) Tools.

You forgot the most problematic - Papyrus! It goes obsolete but the improvement on the plot does not! This is the same as with Whales in vanilla at least in RoM derived mods it goes from oil to tourism based.

Natron goes obsolete because there are better and cheaper chemicals you can make and it is very rare. As far as I know I only added one perhaps 2 buildings that use it though I intended for more to bet a boost from having it.

raxo2222 · Sep 13, 2017

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Disagree - resources should go obsolete as they are replaced. eg Stone Tools by (Steel) Tools.

You forgot the most problematic - Papyrus! It goes obsolete but the improvement on the plot does not! This is the same as with Whales in vanilla at least in RoM derived mods it goes from oil to tourism based.

Natron goes obsolete because there are better and cheaper chemicals you can make and it is very rare. As far as I know I only added one perhaps 2 buildings that use it though I intended for more to bet a boost from having it.

Civilopedia says, that papyrus doesn't get obsolete...
Well what is difference between last producer/consumer of resource going obsolete and resource itself going obsolete except reasons I mentioned?
Lets pick poison: It doesn't get obsolete, but it loses both producers and single consumer at chemistry.
There is one single poison producer going obsolete at much later - designer microbiology, this building is called "Enclosure - Amphibian Pond"

Why then food stuff, modern day electronics, transportion resources and so on doesn't get obsolete in future eras?
If no one can consume natron or papyrus, then resource is effectively obsoleted.

What happens if building needs map resource in city vicinity and it gets obsolete?

Dancing Hoskuld · Sep 13, 2017

raxo2222 said:
There is one single poison producer going obsolete at much later - designer microbiology, this building is called "Enclosure - Amphibian Pond"

Ah ha! I thought the Dart Frog poison building was still in game and there it is.

raxo2222 said:
Why then food stuff, modern day electronics, transportion resources and so on doesn't get obsolete in future eras?

Because that bit has not bee worked on yet.

raxo2222 said:
If no one can consume natron or papyrus, then resource is effectively obsoleted.

Because you can still build the improvement and get extra yields from it if it does not go obsolete. Would need to remove all the extra bonuses to the plot improvement for those particular bonuses or make a new improvement to get the correct effects.

raxo2222 · Sep 13, 2017

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Ah ha! I thought the Dart Frog poison building was still in game and there it is.

Because that bit has not bee worked on yet.

Because you can still build the improvement and get extra yields from it if it does not go obsolete. Would need to remove all the extra bonuses to the plot improvement for those particular bonuses or make a new improvement to get the correct effects.

1. Sometimes things fall our of radar in big mod

2. Good luck with annihilating 95% of 428 both natural and manufactured resources sooner or later in tech tree

Spoiler :

3. Can techs increase/decrease yield from bonuses?
I guess then some map resources could get obsoleted when last their consumer gets obsolete.

Rmi · Sep 13, 2017

I hate it that i can never get flint with muskets. All those early gunpowder units want flint for 15% faster production but by then all flint is obselete.

raxo2222 · Sep 13, 2017

Rmi said:
I hate it that i can never get flint with muskets. All those early gunpowder units want flint for 15% faster production but by then all flint is obselete.

There are only 2 producers of it:
Flint quarry, that goes obsolete at Iron Working and Pamukkale - wonder of nature, that only one player can have it.
I guess flint quarry should get obsoleted much later.

Dancing Hoskuld · Sep 13, 2017

Rmi said:
I hate it that i can never get flint with muskets. All those early gunpowder units want flint for 15% faster production but by then all flint is obselete.

I thought I fixed that. If you have stone you should be able to build the flint producing building also.

Rmi · Sep 13, 2017

Unless you fixed it in the last 2 weeks i don't think it works. My buildings just go obsolete and i loose all access to flint. It should just go obsolete with rifling.

Dancing Hoskuld · Sep 13, 2017

No the fix I did was to make the Flint building more readily available. I made no changes other than that.

raxo2222 · Sep 14, 2017

Dancing Hoskuld said:
No the fix I did was to make the Flint building more readily available. I made no changes other than that.

Well flint quarry - only its producer except natural wonder - gets obsoleted by iron working as I said above.
This means its long ago obsolete in reneissance.
Now flint and automobiles go out too soon. Wonder how many other resources gets out too soon.

Hydromancerx · Sep 15, 2017

I don't know why any should go obsolete. Especially since Museums could use the resources in them.

HorseshoeHermit · Sep 15, 2017

It's obsolete when it's impossible to use, not when there's a better alternative. It's obsolete when the scaling of the game with its simple arithmetic demands that a bonus from old materials can't be taken seriously.

Buildings should hang around a little longer than units.

Faustmouse · Sep 16, 2017

Certain bonuses should go obsolete simply because it simplifies the resource tab in a city. I don't care if I have Ashes in the TH era, for example.

raxo2222 · Sep 16, 2017

Faustmouse said:
Certain bonuses should go obsolete simply because it simplifies the resource tab in a city. I don't care if I have Ashes in the TH era, for example.

Well resource tab is littered by tens if not of hundreds of cultures anyway.
Also it should be done carefully - cars and flint lose their produces/gets obsolete too early and in case of automobiles shockwave dealership building, that doesn't get obsolete gets forcefully shutdown.
In case of flint Renaissance units that get bonus from it can forget about it, as its only producer gets obsoleted by Iron Working.
Also resources always can be exported to museums, Amish, undeveloped countries and planets in earlier stage of development

Resources can be always naturally obsoleted - that is obsoleting last producer of resource should happen when last consumer is obsoleted or later.
Poison is good case of it - producers and consumers get obsoleted by chemistry except one producer, that gets obsoleted much later.

Septentrion · Sep 20, 2017

The Teleportation tech is not within the gameplay time-period and is a bad example of what typically happens. I have experienced red towers of text like that and they are very annoying, but obsolescence has been under-used in C2C and I wonder why so much from the distant past is visible.

It's more like the interdependence isn't well planned. There isn't even a dedicated resource thread on the first page.

Tajo · Sep 20, 2017

Horseshoe_Hermi said:
It's obsolete when it's impossible to use, not when there's a better alternative. It's obsolete when the scaling of the game with its simple arithmetic demands that a bonus from old materials can't be taken seriously.

Buildings should hang around a little longer than units.

This here.

Although the situation has improved, there still are some dependancies, obsolitions and requirements that are just broken. In some cases like fireplace & branding hut and airport & flying fire extinguishers the makers have forgotten to include those buildings that replace the fireplace and airport to allow the needy building to be built.

raxo2222 · Sep 20, 2017

Well they forgot to obsolete shockwave vechicle dealership with teleportation too

Bonuses shouldn't get obsolete.

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