Border pop - How important is resource in 1st ring?

[Mel32]

Well, my question is because I usually tend to visualize the cities I will settle with the BFC, and sometimes, like 60% of the times, I don't have a resource in the 1st ring. If I see 2 food resources that would be in the BFC, even if none of them is inside the 1st ring, I settle the city and usually build a monument (I almost never play CRE leaders).

I'll try to make an example: C is city tile, X are the tiles of the city. F is fish, W is wheat, I is Iron.

..BFC.........First Ring........(resources out of 1st ring, inside BFC)

-XXX-.............F
XXXXX..........XXX ---->these three are coast tiles, so the city would be coastal.
XXCXX..........XCX
XXXXX..........XXXW
-XXX-...........I

Pleas ignore the dots.

If this is my 2nd or 3rd city, how bad it is for me to settle it this way? If I settled looking for resources inside the 1st ring, I would lose a great long term city, wouldn't I?

The general consensus is a resource in the 1st ring, right? So how much does this affect my game? I play Prince and have some trouble in the late game, mainly on diplomacy or because of little military, but noble is piece of cake.

 

[awilder]

I would say it's OK to settle a city like that under the condition that you put a chop into the monument. Think of it this way:
no chop---> monument takes 12-15 turns ---> border pop takes 10 turns
20+ turns is a huge amount of time to wait for a city to work something
If you chop (assuming math)-->monument up immediately---> border pop comes in 10 turns
cuts the time in half! 10 turns is reasonable that early in the game as long as the city is not a vital worker/settler pump
If in addition this city is a good blocking site, then go for it. The key is just being aware that a city with no worker support (or state religion) will take on the order of 20 turns to get a border pop. That's a long time. Of course, it's always best to hunt for placement that gets a city going asap.

Hope this helps

 

[nerbuth]

The answer of course is... it depends. If you're settling the city for a strategic resource, sometimes it makes sense to just settle on the resource. Otherwise, it is often helpful to have a food resource in the first 9 - it helps you build up the food to whip the monument or library to pop the borders.

For an early city in particular, you want it to come online quickly and contribute to REX - I would avoid setting with all the resources in the second ring.

 

[Farm Boy]

In the example above if you settle farther from the coast you probably "waste" the fish for the rest of the game.

If the food resources were land based in the above example then depending on the nature of the surrounding tiles ask yourself if it would be a possibility to cram two cities in this space each getting a first ring food resource.

I have only more recently begun to place cities with a lot of overlap focusing on short term usefulness rather than long term potential. It takes a city of size 20 to work an entire BFC assuming no useless tiles. How far into the game do cities that size typically become a consideration? With the massive importance of cities that "get up and go" see if more cities improves your rate of return and usage of the best tiles available to you.

My last game my first 3 cities were all the minimum distance from each other due to coast/jungle/placement of food. They would never be megacities, but they were close and fast and that was a good enough foundation.

You might also try your standard city placements while booting up a creative leader. It really is a useful trait!

 

[fathertuck]

I usually focus more on how the cities are going to overlap after the first border pop, so I settle with that in mind. But on the other hand, working unimproved tiles is the worst thing you can do in this game. If your neighbour is Shaka though, a city that will culture block him after the border pop could be a good long time investment no matter if there are resources or not in the first ring.

 

[Ghpstage]

For the first couple of cities inner ring resources (or floodplains) can make a tremendous difference, especially for leaders who do not start with Mysticism. Not needing to research Mysticism, build a monument and then wait for culture to expand makes that city productive much, much faster, which greatly helps your expansion.
There are times when settling an early dud city, doomed to doing nothing for 30+ turns can be a good move, usually its painful.

 

[whats a navy]

If it is a border city have food and other goodies in your first ring so that you don't have to worry about a culture war. If there is a clear gain for settling the food in your second ring it should be taken but if its avoidable settle food in the first ring. Other resources like strategic and commerce don't have as much priority for which ring because food is essential for growth early and not so much for other resources.

 

[vicawoo]

Resources in the first ring means you can heavily reinvest your hammers.

So for cities which you need to significantly supplement your production (usually your second city), it's very important, as it means more workers, a faster 3rd/4th cities, being able to block/land grab faster. Whereas the last city or two you build in the BC's will very marginally increase your production, and you've probably re-gearing your empire from production to beakers at that point.

 

[Monsterzuma]

IMO, for the first two cities (after the capital) it's crucial to settle with at least one important tile within immediate working range; after that, you can wait for a monument.

I think a lot of new players obsess too much over getting the "dot map" right, when what you should really focus on is how well your empire progresses through time. If you settle with a decent number of flatland grass or plains tiles in the BFC of your cities, the end result is always good. You almost can't go wrong in this regard. Almost any tile can be made workable in the long run. Settling next to resources instead of taking the "long term perfect spot" is a way to place focus on the time progression of your empire more than on the perfection of the end result.

 

[Tristan_C]

Definitely don't use your first settler for that city. Probably not the second or third, either. Depending on your neighbors and the barb setting you will want that iron in immediate range, possibly settling on top of it if it's a hill (for a 3 city tile) and adjacent to the wheat.

 

[Mel32]

Thanks a lot guys! Yeah I think I tend to look too much for the perfect spot and have the idea that all my cities will have 20 pop, which actually never happens. Been experimenting with overlap recently with good results, although not much overlap, just a few tiles.

So i'll work on my city placement with the resource on the 1st ring. Hopefully during the weekend when I actually have some time (which I should be spending socializing but meh, that's what school is for )