Botm 15 Pregame Discussion

[PutCashIn]

*Test game* chachacha *test game* chachacha

Who do we appreciate?

Jungle for testgame (chachacha)

 

[Harok]

My first thought was to have the scout go the western plain hill but after reading everyone else thinks the eastern one is more appealing I thought more about it.

If there is something decent out west then moving to the plain hill keeping the pig (and wine although that is not a power tile) seems the most appealing start to me. If I go east then I lose the pig and wine so I have to find something really, really good to want to move that way. Perhaps if I'm going for space all the extra river tiles would be nice but moving away from a tile as strong as that grassy pig would scare me.

 

[bcool]

This is my first attempt at making a test map, so no guarantees it is perfect. There was an error when I loaded the world builder map with HOF3.17, so something might not be right. It seems to play, save, and load ok though.
Let me know if you find any problems.

 

[azzaman333]

I think I see desert to the East, which could mean juicy, juicy floodplains.

I think it was JH who said send the scout to the Eastern PH, but if nothing especially juicy is found settle on the western one. That's what I intend to do.

 

[smitsk00]

@ Adama

....perhaps we will find some....'phants.....pharting around in the phields...

@everyone else

I agree that I will send my scout to the eastern hill. If I see a food resource that can be worked without losing the pigs, the I will definately settle one of the forested plains tiles (1SW or 1 south of that) and sacrifice the choppable forest for a second good food resource. With cheap libraries and granaries, it is hard to pass up the ability to run two scientists while still building and growing.

If there is no resource visible east, I will move my settler to the west hill and reevaluate the situation in turn 2. I am willing to settle as late as turn 3 or even 4 if necessary, so backtracking is an option. Of course the appeareance of...'phants... maybe on a river...would make up my mind for me.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

1. yes! Construction + HBR = too much bulbs

2. additionally: WE is not effective against spears.

3. final reason: I just do not like WEs

I wouldn't run them on deity, but come on. Elephant/axe/cat is 100% stack immunity until gunpowder. No 1 unit can attack a stack of elephants, cats, and some axes in the field until then. zilch.

That said, the BE offers very little in 99% of games that regular elephants don't. Probably stronger in MP, if you somehow got ivory.

I like game settings! Khmer/sury is an underrated leader. He can REX every bit as effectively as Cathy.

In place/AH looks pretty logical. If horses we can screw around a bit, otherwise need bronze/archers.

 

[Lexad]

Elephant/axe/cat is 100% stack immunity until gunpowder. No 1 unit can attack a stack of elephants, cats, and some axes in the field until then. zilch.

Sure, chief. They'll just use some cats first

 

[cammell]

I think I see desert to the East, which could mean juicy, juicy floodplains.

I think it was JH who said send the scout to the Eastern PH, but if nothing especially juicy is found settle on the western one. That's what I intend to do.

Isnt better to settle 1SE ? to grab foodplains not losing pigs&wine??

 

[azzaman333]

If there are plains hills, I feel like it's my duty to settle on them.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I wouldn't run them on deity, but come on. Elephant/axe/cat is 100% stack immunity until gunpowder. No 1 unit can attack a stack of elephants, cats, and some axes in the field until then. zilch.

Macemen? (If you don't mind 50% odds).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Sure, chief. They'll just use some cats first

I'm not referring to MP. We're talking about the AI here . Strategic use of siege to counter an invasion stack will beat pretty much anything. I don't know what AIs you play against but the ones I see don't do this very well .

Macemen? (If you don't mind 50% odds).

Maces will have closer to 35% odds. Shock requires 2 promos, formation 3. Only aggressive maces or toku's UU would hold up. Otherwise we're looking at 8 str combat II (assuming the AI takes the optimal promotions to attack/defend vs elephants...remember we're talking about the AI!) vs 8 str combat I/shock. Elephants are the same hammer cost as pikes too, so you don't fall behind there either.

Of course, there's a number of other considerations, like that elephants have access to 2 promos as soon as they're available if you build a stable, whereas the AI needs theo or vassalage to match 2 promos. Also, they'll likely be available long before maces, engineering, etc, and sometimes before longbows. Surviving elephants will of course be even better promoted than just 2.

Emperor is right at the boundary of where I'd just go all out elephant/axe/cat to take down the whole !@#%ing map. It's easy on monarch and below (on monarch some AIs don't get longbows until fairly deep into the ADs, rendering them scr00d), and USUALLY costly on immortal barring the human's ability to pull a backstab or stomp down on someone like gandhi. Of course, this is all assuming you even have access to them, which is the biggest problem I'd say.

Isnt better to settle 1SE ? to grab foodplains not losing pigs&wine??

Now that I look carefully it does appear we have FP there. Is it worth a lost turn? The scout is in a good position to give us the answer .

 

[JerichoHill]

I think I see desert to the East, which could mean juicy, juicy floodplains.

I think it was JH who said send the scout to the Eastern PH, but if nothing especially juicy is found settle on the western one. That's what I intend to do.

You do realize that will doom you to a subpar game? At least it always does for me =)

 

[adrianj]

I definitely agree with a number of people here - send the scout to east PH to see if that shows up a good enough site to settle on there, else settle on the west PH. Certainly worth delaying a turn or two to be producing 4 hammers for the expansive bonus for the first worker.

I'll be going for a cultural victory, which is my newest fad. How I go about it depends on if I see stone or marble or neither.

 

[Conquistador 63]

I'll be going for a cultural victory, which is my newest fad. How I go about it depends on if I see stone or marble or neither.

I am also considering going for it this month. However, this being Emperor/Continents, I think my success chances will depend more on (NOT) having Genghis/Shaka/Monty as neighbors than on nearby marble/stone. If such an unfriendly environment shows up I might go for conquest instead.

 

[Jbourne]

I am also considering going for it this month. However, this being Emperor/Continents, I think my success chances will depend more on (NOT) having Genghis/Shaka/Monty as neighbors than on nearby marble/stone. If such an unfriendly environment shows up I might go for conquest instead.

I guess that path go well with your Civ Name . But seriously, would you not want to rush the Aggresive AI soon as possible and then have the continent to youself or/and the remaining AI if that is not Aggresive too.

 

[Volapyk]

Hmm what sea level we playing with here? With "only" 6 Ai's totaling 7 civs on the map there should be plenty of room around, which on emperor difficulty might not be much of an advantage. Creative should be a nice help fighting for space in the early game. Perhaps some early fighting to taking out a nearby player or two depending on what we get, just to get us a nice big empire from the start, from there on building up an economy to out tech everyone else leaving us open to what ever victory one might wish to go for, though if wanting to contest in the competition one might have to go specialize earlier on.

Personaly I will go for a domination if our continent is big enough to get it without too much overseas fighting, otherwise either a cultural, space or diplomatic depending on how many wonders and how friendly civs are out there.

Will agree with most peoples assement that we got a flooded plain to the east, but im very tempted to see what lies to the east, think im gonna gamble and have the scout check out some squares to the east and if nothing interesting is revealed will settle SE of starting position. So scout will go 2xNE first, as it appears there are a hill there for some scouting, if nothing comes up settler moves SE and settle on turn 2 unless by some miracle scout finds something very good on its second turn of scouting.

Build order will probably be warrior -> worker -> warrior, though might wait a bit with the worker depending on what I find down there.

Techs will be for food first, either agriculture or AH, second I think I will go for bronze working, defenitly want to be able to see where there is bronze before findind 2nd city, then some axemen and cripple a nearby AI or even taking him out depending on who it is. They will prob have 2 cities up by this time so razing one and either capturing or just blocking the second should leave them pretty weak for later.

 

[greatbeyond]

Gosha does know this and I'm really unlike WE anyway.

The best weapon is diplomacy. Keep animals in zoo!

Has Gosha just inadvertently named the challenge VC? After all we don't want him to show us all up again.

 

[Skade]

I think I will be moving my scout to the east PH with the intention of founding on one of the 2 PH in the opening view, depending on what the scout on the PH reveals.

I don't have much to add to the discussion so far (ie: i'm noob), i'm more posting to increase my on personal commitment to finishing this botm! I've lurked civfanatics since civ3 to improve my own personal game. I don't have much experience yet with civ4 and I thought the botms would give me an opportunity to compare my game with others. I'm worried about emperor difficulty I normally play on prince and win more than i fail.

I've tried the last two botm's and through silly mistakes found myself in a position where i've just given up in frustration at myself. Not this time, I shall play to the bitter end, which on emperor should be pretty fast for me.

I will not quit this game! (and hopefully will still be alive to post in the first spoiler)

good luck to all.

 

[Adama]

(ie: i'm noob), i'm more posting to increase my on personal commitment to finishing this botm!

Not this time, I shall play to the bitter end, which on emperor should be pretty fast for me.

I will not quit this game! (and hopefully will still be alive to post in the first spoiler)

We'll be watching ...

Adama

 

[Skade]

We'll be watching ...

Adama

omg, the pressure!

hehe