[BTS] BOTM 211: Mansa Musa, Deity - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 211: Mansa Musa, Deity - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted



Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, particularly anything after 1AD
Did you win?

Reading Requirements
If you are participating in BOTM 211 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

In my first spoiler, I reported on the beginning of the Battle of Gao, when HC declared war on me in 150 BC.

The Battle of Gao would essentially be my entire game. For a millennium and a half!

After the first couple of waves, there was a break in the action, which let me chop the trees outside Gao, which made it easier for my sorties to eliminate stacks as they marched up to my city. HC still would never sign a ceasefire or peace treaty for any price less than Gao. And saving that city was central to my survival. Shaka was at war with me, too; before his army had a chance to arrive, I gave him COL for peace. He'd go on to fight a war against Hammy.

Spoiler :

I finally met Kublai Khan in 620. In 780, he decided to join the war against me. I bought a peace treaty with him for some gold in 1060. But HC's armies kept coming, with their tech upgrading far faster than my own troops.

Spoiler :

In 1090, Shaka declared war on me. I saw his army had nearly arrived at my border, when I paid him off with some more gold.

And still HC's armies kept coming. I had just eliminated another (smallish) one when I saw that Monty now had an army on my border.

Spoiler :

HC was still demanding Gao. I had nothing to persuade Monty to call off him imminent attack, and there was no way to fight off that stack. Hammy was pleased with me, but could not be persuaded to come to my aid. In a desperate bid for survival, I gave Gao to Hammurabi. He did not have open borders with my enemies; if that corner of the map became Babylonian territory, my enemies would have to attack him to get to me! This gift improved his relationship to friendly.

Well...that trade put the adjacent squares into Babylonian control, but the hill was still mine, which left HC and Monty a clear path to my remaining cities. (On the next turn, Hammy's border shrank to just the city square.) Time for another desperate move: I bought peace from HC for Awdaghost (an insignificant city I'd settled on the western coast, which had since come under cultural pressure from Hammy), plus all of my 82 gold and 55 gpt. And now that I was finally at peace, Hammy was willing to sign a defense pact. Perfect! Would this alliance persuade Monty to cancel his attack?

No, it wouldn't. Monty attacked in 1370. As Hammy rushed a few units up to defend Gao, I left my defensive units in the city to help hold it, while pulling back my offensive units, hoping to be able to counter-attack if the city fell. This tactic failed; Monty captured Gao in 1410, with enough units to hold it. A turn later, his melee units upgraded to rifles. (I noticed that HC had now upgraded his units to infantry.)

And then Hammy ruined my diplomatic maneuvering by calling an AP vote to "end the war against Hammurabi". He had an overwhelming majority in the AP, so of course, the vote passed. Now I was alone again in my war against Monty, whose army was healing up before marching on my capital. The vote was only of limited benefit to Hammy, though, since Shaka declared against him in 1440.

I had enough. I retired in 1490.

 

[kcd_swede]

I got my butt kicked. Threw in the towel in 900AD when faced with a huge stack of modern units unloading near my capitol.

 

[Powerfaker]

Hard fought 1838AD Domination. This is actually the first Deity game I pushed through to a win.

I tried to do some things a bit different this game. I ignored the Music and Liberalism path, just went straight for Steel. Then traded + teched my way to Rifling, followed up by massive drafting, which was also new to me.

So 1080AD I am the first to DoW someone => HC., bribed Shaka into it as well. At that point HC is the fastest techer, so I'm happy to do something about it.
Of course HC is the one that has Apostolic Palace. I had to defy a vote at some point, cause he kept gaining 10T peace treaties (twice) out of it (ao one for returning a trash city). Defying once was enough to conquer most and vassal him.

Meanwhile Monty and Justy fight a war for 2 centuries. Kublai starts to turn up as the most dangerous techer, far away from my grasp.

I DoW Justinian next 1515AD entering what turned out to be the decisive phase of the game. The war itself was slow and every city a huge battle. Happy and Health issues were strangling. He also bribed Shaka on me (and HC). Was glad Shaka hardly send anything towards my core lands. Within a few turns I was able to bribe Kublai on Shaka, which got them in a long dragging war. I kept my own ghost war with Shaka going as well to encourage Kublai to stay at war.
After Justy capped, immediately a DoW on Monty followed. For some reasons Monty kept his offensive force away for a few turns. I took 4 cities and capped him just when it started moving.. As a side effect it went for Shaka now, which wasn't necessarily desirable, since Shaka's Infantry faced Kublai's MechInfantry by now.

I had to take a period of peace now to tech and upgrade into all mobile units for 15T or so. The first space parts are completed by Kublai. He is also the culture king passing 25K with 2 cities and running Jeweler's Inc. Hammi all game long chilling in his corner starts to shoot for Space now.

When I DoW Kublai I have such a big army I blast through his cities with ease. Likewise with Shaka's core. In the meantime I raised an army in the east to invade Hammi. I hoped to get conquest but Hammi refuses to cap even with 3 cities left. Kublais cities coming out of revolt push me over the Domination limit.

 

[shakabrade]

Finally finished this game. I totally underestimated the size of this map. This is definitely not the easisest Deity game you could play. Some unit spammers, almost all AIs can DoW on you, constant sense of threat, huge distances. I thought that I am to be DoWed and could not focus on playing my own game. I had a nice start, got a Music GA, 8 cities, Lib was secured. HC started plotting relatively early, although we were pleased and continued to do so on Friendly but I totally thought it was me as I was his land target and Hammy who he was annoyed with was not and Hammy had an army, while I had something laughable. Therefore I commited to pushing the Cuirs (instead of Cannons as my first option for this map) and premaking the WEs to have something if HC attacked. HC became friendly to me as well, but as I know, if they start plotting before Friendly, they stick to it.

He attacked Babylon. I had seriously commited to Cuirs, whipped conisderably and then I had to attack my friend Hammy when Inca asked me to join in somewhere around 650AD. Hammy bribed Shaka onto me (btw, that guy started to plot on me sometimes in the BCs but I managed to beg and the fist disappeared). I have taken all cities but one when Shaka's main stack arrived and then I was forced to take a peace treaty. That one city was constantly making Babylon and one more city to revolt. Grr. I realized that I want to push for Tanks + Bombers before going on the conquering spree, starting with realtively backwards Shaka (actually, my aim was domination, as that is one win I never tried in GOTM). Because I though that I had to reach Cavs ASAP to be safe, I did not set my Oxford early, whipped too hard and my research to Tanks was delayed significantly. Rest of the world was in love with each other, except Monty attacking Justinian, Kublai was playing Mansa trading everything with everyone and after taking the Zulu out, I was constantly behind in tech against the AIs with 15 cities. And little did I know that I was yet to go through real drama, attrition and war weariness, culture slider to 80%, fighting multiple AIs at all times due to Defensive Pacts and caapitulations and learning that Bombers can have a shelf-life too. Could have just taken an UN victory around 1550AD and save some 10h of RL...

 

[MarleysGh0st]

Could have just taken an UN victory around 1550AD and save some 10h of RL...

So what did happen?

 

[crofter]

I normally do OK on immortal, but not so good on Deity, so was not too optimistic here. Anyway, went better than expected - got the Mids (925 BC) and start seemed to go ok. Wasn't sure what to do about regligion (Inca was buddist, Babylonia in Hinduism) - went for Hinduism in the end (fortunately no land border for a long time with Inca).

I decided to go for cannons + drafted rifles with Inca as the obvious target - got Steel in 860 AD. The idea to attack Inca was almost messed up by a defensive pact between Kublai and Huayna. I didn't want to fight 2 AI, so I bribed Monty on Kublai. To add to the fun Shaka got bribed in on Huayna and I finally attacked in 1140 AD. Managed to just get the Incan capital in 1310 AD as he got infantry, at which point I took a peace treaty. I really saw here how important a few turns are on Deity - if I had been a few turns later his capital would have probably have had a stack of infantry and I wouldn't have got it I think...

I restarted the war in 1440 and managed to cap Huayna in 1585. I think I was in an ok position at this point (19 cities), but there were several big AI (Babylonia with 17 cities, Aztec with 18). During the war, I got the AP & realised that might give me a way to win. I joined Shaka in a war against Monty, liberating one of Kublai's former cities in the process, getting both Shaka & Kublai to friendly. That gave me the votes & I won via AP in 1660 AD.

 

[shakabrade]

So what did happen?

When behind - nukes.

 

[Powerfaker]

@shakabrade
Why did you choose to side with HC and not Hammy? Was Hammy the bigger threat in your game? HC provided you with a nice opportunity here to catch him exposed or did he not move?
I thought of Hammy as an easy to manage neighbour that I could correct quickly if necessary. HC and behind his lands Justinian were far more dangerous.

 

[shakabrade]

@shakabrade
Why did you choose to side with HC and not Hammy? Was Hammy the bigger threat in your game? HC provided you with a nice opportunity here to catch him exposed or did he not move?
I thought of Hammy as an easy to manage neighbour that I could correct quickly if necessary. HC and behind his lands Justinian were far more dangerous.

Because no other AIs liked Hammy and HC was far more competent techer. Dealing with Hammy enabled me to deal with Shaka afterwards and he would have attacked me for sure. HC on the other hand was Friendly, great at teching, basically as useful as a great vassal (had to invest into espionage to see what he was teching to plan my research). We also had Defensive Pact at the times of peace protecting me from Monty. And no one disliked HC except Hammy, especially as he went with Free religion from Paya. In some other RNG, Hammy is a better partner, perhaps.

 

[Powerfaker]

Ah I see. If you developed a relationship like that it would be odd to ruin it.
My idea was that the trouble you had in the last part of the game finds its origin in this earlier path you took. All the hotshots were still there. I had an easy time once I broke 2 of them and had the third occupied with Shaka. Both HC and Justi had techs for trade when I capped them, and as such didn't need to be friendly. Hammy was not a partner. He was simply a sitting duck.
Well, let's just say different diplo, different game. I find it interesting to compair because I hardly played deity so far and start to get some grip on how to play it.

 

[krikav]

This was a tough one!
I paniced this thuesday when I thought the deadline was tomorrow the 15th, but now when I submitted I saw that it was the 17th, oh well..

Cuirs against Hammy. Took peace when he had 2 cities left and got the island city in the peace treaty, then I let Shaka/Kublai finish his last city.
Proceded with cannons against Shaka who had 24 cities and the entire middle, but no easy capitulation.

Then onwards to Capac with mass infantry and artillery, he folded easily.
Took a cheap shoot against Monty who had a gargantuan stack reachable T0 so he went next.

Had good speed now, and just needed to get one more, or just a few cities more!!
But once I declared on Justinian, which I did with two huge stacks that I splitted up, he got them all with tactical nukes... >_<

Then queue lots of miserable turns toward tanks/bombers and zerg him down.
T292 Domination in the end. Very happy I managed to finish it in time!

Spoiler :

 

[krikav]

@Powerfaker For what it's worth, I would have prefered to tackle Capac earlier too, but in my game Hammy was universially hated and Shaka was growing very dangerous, hadn't I taken Hammy, he would have.

@shakabrade I was also behind alot for most of the game.
I couldn't have gone for Capac after Hammy, because by that time everyone except Shaka had infantry already. Shaka on the other hand didn't even have steel, so I could make good progress on him, although slowly.

I had absurd war weariness when trying to make a Vassal of Shaka, had two GPersons waiting for a GA which I wanted to run after I got peace with him, and as such I started growing cities during the war too. But Shaka was so stubborn, I had to take all of his core cities and only leave him with the icy center and one border city that was pushed by Kublai.

So after getting MilSci from him, he was basically useless for the rest of the game.
Then when I got Capac as a vassal, I was aeons behind and couldn't give him anything for his techs.

After justinians nukes that killed off my ~200 units I suddenly had very good techrate though!

 

[shakabrade]

@krikav
Your game sounds very similar to what I experienced. The only difference is that I have decided to go for Tanks and skip cannons. And the war weariness issues, fighting against SoZ. I have completely eradicated Hammy and Shaka to avoid happiness isssues in the future, totally aware that my Domination will be in the late game. By the end, I even went into emancipation as I lost Eiffel tower by 2-3 turns.

I was nuked as well, by Kublai and HC, but not as hard. I knew where the nukes were and had striked first. Kublai had SDI and shot at least 10 tactical nukes down, but HC did not have it. For me, the worst war was the one with Monty. I had tactical nukes I could not use because he had all his units in a city I could not nuke due to friendly tile restriction. I actually did not know that rule and was really unpleasantly surprised when I could not really use my first 20 nukes. After Shaka (dead) and Justy (capped), all AIs had Jet fighters and shot all my bombers down. I realized that I can accrue war success by just hitting anything with nukes (each is 10 war success), also Monty was kind enough to move his SoD into Justy's land where it was killed by my veteran Tanks, upgraded to Modern Armor, and capturing some small city and actually building nukes and not using them has built enough power for him to yield. One turn against Monty lasted 40min in RL. I was already at 60% land before attacking HC and Kublai who had a defensive pact, of course. And I had launched a good nuclear strike on HC, have taken, 5-6 cities in 3 turns but he capped on the turn of my domination victory and did not contribute to my score. Kublai nuked my borderline city and we have exchanged it couple of times. I would let him take it, then nuked his army from the fort I have built to be in the range. On the last turn, I managed to kill almost all of his army. On T0 of the war I had a very sneaky attack on his capital where his SoD was with a submarine and 3 tactical nukes, but he managed to shot 2 and his army survived. I have not planned properly on this map, my attacks were stupid, until the last 10 turns when I finally had a fresh mind to plan all the submarines, transports and nuke deployment. This should have been much better, but I played usually between midnight and 4AM during working days to make sure I manage to submit some Deity GOTM in hope to get the quickest domination which I still didn't attempt.

 

[krikav]

@shakabrade I was also unclear about the rules for nuking! Thats why I placed my stacks where I did. One next to Justinians city ("He can't nuke his own city, can he?") and one I placed next to one of his cities, in Kublais territory.
But turns out they can.

I don't think I would have gone for steel, but I got it somewhat early in a lucky trade, so built up a bunch of cannons to suprise Shaka when his SoD was standing in Hammys last city then supplemented with drafted rifles.

I often get impatient and lazy toward the end of games like this, even without time pressure. Hard to the time it requires to perform good micro when the game prior have not been perfect.
Did you get T270-T280 dom something? That might be enough to be fastest. I suspect this map turns out to a endurance test no matter how good you play the opening.

 

[shakabrade]

@shakabrade I was also unclear about the rules for nuking! Thats why I placed my stacks where I did. One next to Justinians city ("He can't nuke his own city, can he?") and one I placed next to one of his cities, in Kublais territory.
But turns out they can.

I don't think I would have gone for steel, but I got it somewhat early in a lucky trade, so built up a bunch of cannons to suprise Shaka when his SoD was standing in Hammys last city then supplemented with drafted rifles.

I often get impatient and lazy toward the end of games like this, even without time pressure. Hard to the time it requires to perform good micro when the game prior have not been perfect.
Did you get T270-T280 dom something? That might be enough to be fastest. I suspect this map turns out to a endurance test no matter how good you play the opening.

Are you saying that AIs have different rules regarding the nukes?

Regarding Steel, problem for me is lack of mobility. It is just too slow to attack unit spammers with 15+ cities. They get too many reinforcements. Cannons should be carried by galleons on this map. I would have gone that route if I did not think HC was about to launch on me and the victory could have been achieved at least 30T sooner. It would have ended with Tanks and bombers and not Modern armor/Paratroopers plus nukes. I should have utilized more boats much sooner on this map. Not only me, anyone.
Do you feel that you lost momentum with cannons and draft rifles?

I totally feel you regarding the impatience. Especially when you play very late in the night and your eyes actually hurt. It is so tempting to just push that red button.

My domination date is better than what you put in the range, but I just don't want to reveal anything until this is done. I like the tease. Since you have already disclosed your date, I could tell you in PM but for other non-posters, I don't want to tell. Also, I am currently negotiating one contract and I am in that negotiationg mode.

 

[krikav]

@shakabrade
The whole time I was slogging along against Shaka which from the screenshots looks like about T185 -> T232 speaks for itself when it comes to so called "momentum".
I started with cannons, and about half-way in I had artillery.
I thought I could do it somewhat quick, get a few nice cities and make him a vassal, but that didn't happen.

In hindsight, I should just have done the GA after I got Hammys land, and tech up toward tanks/bombers then and there and blazed through them after that. I certainly had the commerce to do it.

 

[shakabrade]

@shakabrade
The whole time I was slogging along against Shaka which from the screenshots looks like about T185 -> T232 speaks for itself when it comes to so called "momentum".
I started with cannons, and about half-way in I had artillery.
I thought I could do it somewhat quick, get a few nice cities and make him a vassal, but that didn't happen.

In hindsight, I should just have done the GA after I got Hammys land, and tech up toward tanks/bombers then and there and blazed through them after that. I certainly had the commerce to do it.

That is the problem when facing unit spammer. It is difficult to have twice their power and they reinforce all the time. We do not normally face 20 city unit spammers in most of the games. That is why invasions work much better. Although you need some tech for that.

GAge after Hammys land is what I did. Since I chose to save my Cavs for military police instead of attacking Shaka. I had Hammy's cities at size 13-15 and watermilled and workshopped everything before GAge. But I did not prepare GPeople in time and only managed to start it in 1450AD. Homeland managed to regrow but whipping has taken its toll to my tech pace. I was pretty much doing nothing for a significant portion of the time due to war weariness and bad infra and AIs were in love with each other and tech trading a lot.

I had Shaka attacked from the middle and the bottom at the same time. And if by any chance I thought of putting some Transports to use to attack and transport units from front to front, it could have been faster. I almost forgot, I bribed Shaka onto Justinian with a lot of tech, but still far away from tanks and bombers. That is where he lost a lot of his stack as Justinian had Infantry.

 

[shakabrade]

The dynamics of the war went like this (from Hall of fame), Hammy was attacked 560AD with cuirs soon to be cavs, Shaka immediately bribed on me, 980AD I take almost all Babylonian cities and sign peace with Shaka and his vassal Hammy. Afterwards, I managed to be pleased with Shaka and begged for 10 more turns of peace. Land was developed, researched to Tanks plus bombers bribed Shaka onto Justy to keep others busy while I tech and build army, I was stupid to wait for trades to Bombers, could have attacked with just Tanks at least 15T sooner, postponing the bombers a bit (but they became irrelevant very soon anyway). I attacked Shaka at 1510AD (more than 50T of peace in domination game, something definitely went bad here) and he was dead 1595AD. He survived a bit longer because he capped to Justinian whom I immediately attacked. Justinian capitulated at 1610AD and then I attacked Monty around 1630AD, first use of Nukes, I think, and he capped at 1675AD. Then I proceeded to HC and Kublai Khan at 1685AD and some nukes were exchanged.