[BTS] BOTM 233: Ramesses II, Immortal - First Spoiler - 1AD

[kcd_swede]

BOTM 233: Ramesses II, Immortal - First Spoiler - 1AD

Which save (Advventurer/Contender/Challenger) did you pick?
How's it going with the Minor Civ?
Making good use of the SPI/IND trait combo?
Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD
Reading Requirements
If you are participating in BOTM 233, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
• Do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games

 

[High King J.J.]

Didn't reach 1AD. No point in continuing. You were correct, this is impossible if unlucky. Of course you removed any useful resources and gave the enemy all it needed. Of course you made sure some civ would attack us while the barbarian civ would grow stronger and attack with units that have double strength compared to anything we could build. No doubt you will get praise from those who can survive. Count me out.

Rivalen Tanthul: "Your bitterness is sweet to the Lady of Loss."

 

[kcd_swede]

Didn't reach 1AD. No point in continuing. You were correct, this is impossible if unlucky. Of course you removed any useful resources and gave the enemy all it needed. Of course you made sure some civ would attack us while the barbarian civ would grow stronger and attack with units that have double strength compared to anything we could build. No doubt you will get praise from those who can survive. Count me out.

Sorry for your loss.

Aggressive AI can be tough, especially considering the opponents you were given. The aggressive AI means you start with a -2 diplomacy to everyone, and ensures the AI will be weighted towards building military units. In that situation, you need to focus early on keeping power-rating parity with at least the nearby AI. BTW-no resources were added or removed from a random generated map. If you want to learn, it'd be worth playing the save again and bee-lining iron-working, and chop out some decent units. Fortify a choke point or two (of which there were many) and you should do OK. Even if you can't submit a second try, it may be worth seeing if you could do better with a strategy more suited to the announced start conditions.

Another clue that more experienced players probably picked up on is that a start position will almost never have a hidden bonus resource if it already has 5 visible bonus resources. No guarantee in a manipulated map, but evil mapmakers are yet another reason to not expect copper or horses in this start. Iron was available reasonably close in a spot the player should have been able to reach first with little effort.

May 1 will be a BOTM at Noble level, at least.

 

[High King J.J.]

strategy more suited to the announced start conditions.

I must have missed the announcement that iron is the only resource worth seeking. However I knew mapmakers are by default evil and I prepared the metaphorical wakizashi for the seppuku before the game was even announced.

Taserface: "It's metaphorical!"

 

[jnebbe]

Spoiler :

Contender save

SIP and 3S, pretty poor synergy, but it's my fault I didn't move my warrior first and only saw the corn after I settled the capital

GLH built T49, pretty early but wanted to make sure I got it. From there I kept expanding like normal. Built Colossus because it's the best wonder in the game around T90.

T115 I have 10 cities, 51pop, I think I'm teching the fastest in the game.
Economy was pretty scuffed for a while because I delayed HR for so long. I was toying with when to get construction and kept changing my mind which delayed it, but I'm working a ton of 23tiles so it's fine now.

Minor civ has not been a problem at all, I just choked him with a warrior (stole 4 workers too) and he's stuck on 3 cities with only archers.

Nothing else really happening, no wars happening (I don't know 2 civs though) though I just spotted Boudica's stack heading my way. Construction finishes in 1 turn, she could be heading for Stalin or someone else, we shall see

 

[kcd_swede]

Nothing else really happening, no wars happening (I don't know 2 civs though) though I just spotted Boudica's stack heading my way. Construction finishes in 1 turn, she could be heading for Stalin or someone else, we shall see

My gut tells me you will need those catapults very soon. You can hope for the best, but should definitely plan for the worst. Good luck!

 

[lymond]

Survived, but can see folks having some issues. Luckily I sent the original warrior scouting down SW and discovered horses, so I sent my first self-built settler to the horses. I did not go after Stalin immediately but used a couple of WCs initially just to fend of any archers he sent my way. When I did attack, I got surprisingly great rolls. I think I lost 2 WCs taking him out - if I did not win a battle my WCs retreated instead. (Oh...my Bowman danced around with an archer or two preventing them from coming near me early. The archer always wanted to stay on defensive terrain so would never entire open tiles, and eventually just backed off back home. Stalin did send one 4 stack of archers but I had WCs to make short work of them)

Settled just like jnebbe initially, going for the corn. Thebes built a worker while corn city built all the wbs needed for Thebes. As mentioned, settled horses next and then just filled in spots with a focus on some of the islands as I built GLH (quite a bit slower than jnebbe). Horse city built mids slowly. Did settle stone island in the East to help that a long.

Stalin was finished off sometime in the mid to late BCs - can't remember exactly. So I had about 12 cities at 1AD. Meanwhile, I had Toku, Boudi, Rags and KK at pleased or even Friendly via religion, resource trades, and tech gifting. (Although Rags dropped from Friendly when I switched to Rep but a still have a point coming from the resource trade bonus) Got circum to with a scout wb and galley.

Interestingly, after Stalin was done, I could now see some AIs in fist mode. Boudi was in fist mode, but I had no clue who she was targeting. She does not plot at Pleased, but not sure if the minor civ's presence was throwing this off somehow. However, all of a sudden KK, who was in fist mode, had a rather sizable stack next to - I think - Rostov (which I owned now). He does attack at pleased. I had Currency at this point, so I just begged some gold. Weird thing is that he moved his stack just south of Rostov in open land above Thebes and just parked there during the peace treaty. Meantime Rostov, which already had most of my surviving WCs was fortitfied with some Axes, so I really had no worries about an imminent attack. So peace treaty ends and I expect him to attack. Instead, KK moves his stack back North through Rostov and attacks Toku instead...ha..bizarre.

Not sure what I want to do with this game. Lack of marble seems intentional here.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

My game isn't as bad as High King J.J.'s, but not nearly as good as the others. I didn't focus on a plan, made too many mistakes, and I'll surely be paying for that down the road.

I forgot that there weren't barbs in this game, and stopped exploring in favor of fog busting, without ever spotting the horses.

I took the Contender save. Settled my first settler in place, then held back my second settler for a while before sending it south, right on top of the iron, as I later discovered.

I built Stonehenge in my capital, and later built Moai Statues there. My third settler, escorted by a warrior, had a close call after settling on a hill to the NW , with a Russian archer next door, only to discover a second archer right behind them. Luckily, they moved on for an unsuccessful attack on my capital, but I decided at that point that I needed to attack Russia (after finally getting that iron). Still, I didn't fully concentrate on building attack units (too busy with Moai in the capital), so my army was still building up outside Yekaterinburg when Boudica showed up with a bigger army and captured that city immediately.

I captured two other Russian cities, destroying that minor civ by 50 BC, but now I'm far behind the other AI in tech, and my economy/research is barely creeping along.

I'll see how far I can go, but when the AI attack, as one or more surely will, it won't be pretty.

 

[jnebbe]

To T173

Spoiler :

I thought Boudica started plotting after getting her to pleased but I guess not . My army is completely out of position as I sent them to Stalin and now I have 20 units on my doorsteps.

Lost these 2 cities, I knew they were pretty ambitious when I settled them though so not surprising

I know the game is 100% over if I lose GLH+Colossus in my capital so I completely abandon the first 2 cities and fortify Thebes

Then the greatest thing I've ever seen in a civ game happened. I make peace with Ragnar (for MC and a couple hundred gold grumble) but it teleports my small stack to the circled tile, and because Boudica was only defending with horse archers I was able to recapture Elephantine!

??????

No worries he just suicided a couple axes and made peace immediately


Stalin was finished off T151

Bit of a rocky start but hey at least I Libbed Nationhood and I'll got Taj
Went towards trebs and rifles

 

[jnebbe]

I've played further but I have no idea how to continue; a lot of my economy is from GLH+Colossus so I don't know what to do once I need Astro+Corporations

Moderator Action: Moved to first spoiler thread. Please do not post in the final spoiler thread until you have completed and submitted your game. Thanks. leif

 

[Powerfaker]

Contender. Definitely having some issues , but managing.

Noticed the corn with bowman moving south, but decided SIP + NE of cow. Hoped for a little more there. There wasn't but it played decent. Went Pottery/AH before Bronze (obviously Fishing first), then towards GLH techs.

I took it calm with expansion initially. Most of the land was medicore + this would let me tech a bit faster and set up granaries.
One very good spot I discovered rather late, Cow/Clam/Corn NW, which became my first expansion 1800BC or so. Finished GLH 1600BC, then settled the 2 islands west of cap.

Moved on to Oracle Monarchy 1100BC, then towards Alphabet, MC. Colossus built 150BC.
After 1000BC I got some distractions by DoWs from Boudica 850BC and Ragnar. 200BC. I had to hurry a solid set of axes. There's been a lot of dancing up and down the land passages without any fight so far. They do not necessarily turn back when you block them off. The Russians tried to invade with archers. I had plenty of units because of running HR, but right then Toku conquered a city and they moved back.

At 1AD 9 cities, 47pop, 1 settler ready at a sugar site. I got silver appearing a few turns earlier + gem site up + forges everywhere , so finally some decent resource happiness. No religion spread so far.
Have Calender and Currency + enough gold piled to finish Machinery in 4T. X-bows will be a nice counter in the current wars. Boudica has nice land, my next focus might be to conquer that.

One half of the map is still completely black and difficult to reach. Circumnavigation by @lymond quite impressive.

 

[ecawilson]

Adventurer. SIP and by the rice southwest.
Not sure why my game has been going so much easier than everyone else's. They all hate Russia, Russia only created 2 cities, and I took them both right before 1AD. So, you would think I was doing well… I am not.
I only have 5 cities (2 original settlers, 1 settler I built, and 2 Russian cities), I am running 0% slider, no wonders, I still don't have Iron Working (I threw up my hands in despair after no horse/copper), and I don't even have Alphabet.
I did circumnavigate the globe and meet everyone, but I have a unit cost of 18, and total expenses of 58, with just my 5 crappy cities.
Are you sure the only difference in Adventurer is the extra units? Because it feels like I should have been destroyed long ago, with how poorly I am playing this.

Spoiler Turn By Turn Notes :

Adventurer, SIP
considered using Adam Smith as an early explorer or bulbing Mining, but decided that (mapmaker distrust or not) I needed to build workboats and creating a Slavery economy, so he settled in place too
started researching Fishing, and thought the southern corn looked more interesting than the northern jungle, so bowman and settler started out that direction
even without barbs, I didn't see anything better to work on than warriors, and hoped there were some nearby civs they could meet
saw a Russian scout on turn 4, north of the desert/jungle hill isthmus north of Thebes. Had already sent my bowman south with my settler to scout, decided to depend on warriors to defend
turn 6, not loving southern land, regretting sending the settler south
turn 7, settle Memphis southeast of the southern rice (curious that the governor recommends a settler this late), discover Fishing, start on Mining and 2 workboats
once I saw that I was facing Kursk in the north, I realize that I should have been land grabbing northward, before Stalin did, and that I had made the wrong decision going south
turn 9, moved warrior1 right next to borders (maybe worker steal, or at least get close enough to figure espionage costs and understand the MaxPlotDistance), but there was an archer in the woods that took out worker1
turn10, warrior2 found that there was another path from the south into Kursk
turn14, start on Bronze Working
turn15, meet Japan (next to Kursk). First game I remember where Tokugawa dislikes someone more than me. Almost makes up for the gold mine next to Kursk
wish I were better aquainted with the Soldiers figures in the demographics screen, at this point all I know is that Russia has 23000-25000, so probably 4 archers?
correct. Suicide warrior2 to get a look at Kursk. Very nice city site, also with access to more gold to the west, and they have 4 archers (and a worker) just chilling and waiting for me
Kursk is 15.5 distance away, with a counterespionage of 139 (116% spending), so the MaxPlotDistance is between 74 and 77, inclusive
with 44 in production, probably not building a worker, so probably a settler
turn17, warrior3 stays home
turn18, Ragnar stops by, accuses the Russian leader of being a petty criminal masquerading as a world leader. And Stalin just increased about 6k power, but didn't finish the production, so Bronze Working?
turn19, Stalin adopts Slavery
turn 22, start on barracks (why is AI still recommending settler?)
turn 23, barracks was dumb… I will need copper to do anything useful with the barracks. Switching to worker
turn25, have trade connection to Japan, they must have gotten sailing. And Russian power went up by 2k again, maybe an archer? Production finished, so maybe barracks? Bad news for me. Starting on Settler in Memphis (unhealthy at size 3, nothing improved, and might need copper)
turn26, Ragnar adopts slavery
turn27, Bronze Working, adopt slavery, closest copper is too far south. I need chariots or archers, so I start on Hunting. Sending warrior3 to the northeast, just in case there is some close copper. At this point, one warrior defender won't matter to Russia
turn28, whip barracks, road toward cows (road to Memphis would take as long as teching Sailing)
turn29, start on two more warriors to let Thebes grow before starting another worker (should be able to afford at least 7 units for free at this pop level)
turn32, I would prefer chariots to archers, so I decide to take the risk and go for Animal Husbandry
turn33, I decide to put a turn of scout into Thebes to let it grow to 4, before starting on a worker
turn35, whip worker
turn37, sending the scout south, I don't think I have seen any civs from there, and I want to know who gets that copper, more warriors to grow Thebes
turn38, Ragnar and Tokugawa get their second cities, start on a second scout
turn40, horses spotted in southwest. Stupid mapmaker, no strategic resources, would cost me at least 6/turn to settle near the horses
I have to decide if I will settle south, or research Iron Working next. I'm grumpy, but I need to stay alive, and Archery is only 4 turns
I will send my settler to the jungle next to the horses
turn43, whip settler in Memphis, start on worker in Thebes, connect both cities by road
turn44, had forgotten to gift clams to Japan, did so now
turn44, finished Archery, decided to go all in with the horses and start on Horseback Riding
that merchant is making a big difference here, still 100% tech slider
turn 46, Japan's third city, found Boudica next to the copper (feel like I am being surrounded by warlike leaders)
turn47, founded Heliopolis next to horses, looks like Boudica is sending a settler to the copper
turn50, Boudica founds on top of copper, trade her my other clam for fur
looks like the east will be very fuitful and protected (by land) in midgame, but I don't have the economy yet to start settling it
turn54, first chariot built
turn 62, assault on Vladimir (4 west of Kursk) has begun, with my bowman and warrior sitting in the forest next to Kursk
just noticed that my MaxPlotDistance doesn't seem to be right. Seems to be less than 74 for different cities… what am I doing wrong?
turn 68, with 8 war chariots, my economy is having a rough time, but so is Russia. I suppose I should count myself lucky that at least 3 AI met Russia before I started pounding it
turn69, stonehenge finally built by somebody, Vladimir taken
turn70, met Mongolia
turn71, with 7 promoted archers in Kursk and 40% culture defense, I don't know I I can afford enough chariots to take it out. I might need to park some archers on the gold, and walk away to build economy, or tech spies
with additional testing in the city maintenance mouseover, looks like the MaxPlotDistance is 72
currently spending 15/turn on units, and that is really slowing me down. Do I delete units?
turn83, Boudica has Alphabet. Trade Writing, Mysticism, and Pottery for Horeback Riding. Start on Sailing (lighthouse/trade routes)
turn96, start on Masonry
turn105, Boudica completed great lighthouse before me
turn107, circumnavigated globe
turn112, captured Kursk, destroyed Russia
turn114, contact with Zulu, last civ

 

[jnebbe]

If a permanent alliance builds a spaceship, which capital will it launch from?
May or may not be relevant to my game

 

[WastinTime]

I'm not finding it dangerous at all even tho Boudica got longbows around T83 I think
Seems like everyone is just sending units on a long walk to Russia.
I grabbed the Horse location just as Boudica was taking the copper.
She sent a small stack to Russia and lost most of it.
War chariots took most Russia, but I left one city as a unit-magnet over on the incense. When KK's huge stack gets too close to that city, I'll close borders with him. Not sure what he'll do trapped in the middle of my territory.
I got construction for Cats and traded for Hunting, Archery, Alpha, IW, Poly, PH, Mono, Monarchy, & HorsebackRiding. I was a couple turns short of settling on the Ivory before Vikings got there. I then got Metal Casting for Triremes.
With about 15 cities, I can hit Vikings and Japan hard, simultaneously. I'll take that Ivory first. Before he gets Construction (elephants)

 

[ecawilson]

<...> but I left one city as a unit-magnet over on the incense. When KK's huge stack gets too close to that city, I'll close borders with him. <...>

This! This was the strategy I was missing! (you know, that and the strategy of settling a city that actually made money instead of bled it.)
I must know how this goes, and how long it holds up, please!

 

[neilmeister]

Long time between games.....

AT 100BC (way to rusty to even make a save at 1AD), I have 9 cities and am aiming for a Culture win.
SIP, then second city by corn to the south.....it kind of sucks a bit but I am committed to it for one of my 3 cities.

Bowman played 'mess with the Russion Worker' for 2000 years before he got done by archers!

Noticed no one going for Hindu....I snagged it in the mid 2000 BC's....
Henge
Kashi Vishwanath
GLH
Oracle (1 turn after GLH)....took CoL & Confused.
Building Parthenon

9th city grabbed stone....I have no religions that need stone for cathedrals.....awesome!
No Copper, or Marble....or horses.