BOTM 28 First Spoiler - 500 AD

[skystream]

Just curious what the community of deity's think...

I think you need to make contact and evaluate the AI's size and technological advancement.

If they appear weak, you can can go for Domination.

If they appear strong, then you can go for UN, with Space Race as a backup.

 

[budweiser]

I'm not a diety player. Well, now I am. In this game, I decided early on that I would wait until they found me. After I saw all that land that was given to us and then condiered that there were 7 of them crammed on the other land mass, I figured I just better concentrate on getting all the best spots on my land before they came over. The other thing is, I couldnt afford to stop and build any kind of fighting force. It was all wonders, settlers and workers. If they met me when I was weak, they may have made plans to come over. I figured, if I met them, there wouldnt be as much for me to gain from them as there would be them gaining from me because I had such a large economy. Yes, there was sporadic fighting over there, but not that much., i have seen worse. So, I just waited. In my game there was one city that grabbed all the early religious stuff and they picked off all the early religions leaving me with none whihc was fortuitous because I think it prevented a love-fest and I didnt try to hard to get any religions at first.

 

[kcd_swede]

I decided against GLH because on an isolated start all you get is +2 gpts per coastal city and it expires by the time you get Astronomy and establish overseas trade routes.

I thought The Collosus is a much better wonder (especially considering that we have Copper).

I'm working about 2 sea tiles. I have awesome land tiles to work. I can't see Collossus doing anything useful for me. I agree that GLH can be let go this game, as no trades mean those extra trade routes are nerfed. But in an isolated start, the conventional wisdom is pro-GLH. Myself, the stone and all the food makes the Pyramids the wonder of most use. Yes, the Parth and/or the GLib would complement this greatly, but we're on deity so you can just only pick one (at least if you have my skill level, in which case even going for one WW is a calculated risk). Enough forests to get whichever wonder you focus on, I suppose. I'm counting on repr-loaded specialists to carry me until the financial cottages can win the game for me. Some Deity experince tells me this is laden with pitfalls, but if I can get some decent diplomacy and trading going, the sky is not the limit!

Looking at the demographics board, it looks as though I could win the game without firing a shot. Cross my fingers.

 

[skystream]

I'm not a diety player. Well, now I am. In this game, I decided early on that I would wait until they found me. After I saw all that land that was given to us and then condiered that there were 7 of them crammed on the other land mass, I figured I just better concentrate on getting all the best spots on my land before they came over. The other thing is, I couldnt afford to stop and build any kind of fighting force. It was all wonders, settlers and workers. If they met me when I was weak, they may have made plans to come over. I figured, if I met them, there wouldnt be as much for me to gain from them as there would be them gaining from me because I had such a large economy. Yes, there was sporadic fighting over there, but not that much., i have seen worse. So, I just waited. In my game there was one city that grabbed all the early religious stuff and they picked off all the early religions leaving me with none whihc was fortuitous because I think it prevented a love-fest and I didnt try to hard to get any religions at first.

You gain a lot by making contact on your terms. You can trade for resources (after astronomy). You can trade technologies. You can get an extra +1 on sea, which is huge if you have to wage naval war. Not to mention additional trade routes. You can also help the weak ones so that they don't become vassals of the stronger ones.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I decided against GLH because on an isolated start all you get is +2 gpts per coastal city and it expires by the time you get Astronomy and establish overseas trade routes.

I thought The Collosus is a much better wonder (especially considering that we have Copper).

The Colossus expires with Astro. GLH expires with Corporation. If I play that far, then towns would take care of everything anyway. If I play that far, I could move my palace, if need be. Etc.

I rarely build the Colossus when I need Astro.

 

[beestar]

Some more details from my 500AD

9 cities. 1 each on NW Island and SW Island. Micromanaging the workers is already a pain in the ass.

Tech: About 140 bpt @ breakeven. Recent history:
...
600BC Currency
375BC Aesthetics
350BC Mysticism (filling in old techs, need for the marble quarry on SW Island)
325BC Masonry
275BC Polytheism (need for Parthenon)
175BC Literature
50BC Mathematics
175AD Music (got the GA)
275AD Code of Laws (for Civil Service, courthouses)
375AD Metal Casting (for forges and their happiness)

About to tech Civil Service, and then bulb Paper -> Education.

Wonders
50BC, Parthenon
50AD, Great Library in Ectabana
225AD, National Epic in Ectabana

I'm pleased with my GP Farm at the north edge of the continent, it's got Pigs/Corn/Fish and Great Library and National Epic. With Parthenon and Caste it can pump out tons of GSs.

Getting Music to build Culture is great for border pops when not running Caste.

 

[Ribannah]

CHALLENGER

It's 500ad and we have just learned Optics. Caravels are getting built to explore the wide ocean and find out what is going on with the AI. They probably need our assistance.

Then again, perhaps they are entirely walled in and out of reach....

We have many cities, 2 of them on the SW island and one on the NW island, plus two Settlers on their way. There is still plenty of room for more.

Great Lighthouse, Colossus and Oracle went to the AI before we could even think of them, but the Stone was our friend. Later, we hooked up Marble on the SW island.

Our entire army consists of 3 Warriors.
We had one Golden Age, starting in 50ad for 12 turns.


Cities
4000bc Persepolis (in place) (fish, corn, wheat, ivory, copper)
2400bc Pasargadae (pig, gems, floodplains)
2200bc Susa (on the stone, sharing Persepolis wheat and Ecbatana corn, floodplains)
1760bc Ecbatana (corn, gold, floodplains)
1440bc Tarsus (SE floodplains)
1000bc Gordium (corn, sheep, gold, iron, S floodplains)
700bc Bactra (SW island) (corn, copper, marble)
275bc Sardis (ivory, sharing 1 Jinjan gems)
250bc Ergili (corn, 3 wine, copper), building Versailles
200bc Kabir (2 sugar, ivory)
50ad Ghulaman (S tundra river) (sheep)
100ad Zohak (NW island) (cow, wine)
100ad Istakhr (SE tip of mainland) (fish, clam, stone), intended Moai location
175ad Jinjan (corn, 3 gems, ivory, horse)
275ad Borazjan (SE island) (crab, 2 silver)

Technology
3720bc Fishing
3440bc Mining
2880bc Bronze Working
2640bc The Wheel
2360bc Pottery
2160bc Mysticism
2000bc Masonry
1760bc Polytheism
1560bc Monotheism (Judaism in Pasargadae)
1360bc Meditation
1280bc Priesthood
1160bc Animal Husbandry
1000bc Writing
925bc Sailing
775bc Mathematics
575bc Metal Casting
500bc Iron Working
400bc Calendar
325bc Code of Laws (Confucianism in Ecbatana)
250bc Alphabet
150bc Currency
100bc Monarchy
50ad Civil Service
100ad Aesthetics
125ad Literature
175ad Theology
325ad Divine Right (Islam in Gordium)
375ad Compass
450ad Machinery
500ad Optics


500ad stats
15 cities, 95 heads
40% pop, 34% land
511 bpt / -162 gpt at 100% science, or 313 bpt / 14 gpt at 60%.
4 towns, 21 villages, 8 hamlets, 7 cottages
gnp 590, mfg 169
2 Settlers, 14 Workers, 3 Warriors
13 Granaries, 1 Aqueduct, 5 Lighthouses, 3 Harbors, 10 Forges, 6 Libraries, 4 Markets, 7 Courthouses, 8 Jewish Temples, 10 Jewish Monasteries
score 1682

Persepolis has built 5 wonders:

1080bc Pyramids
675bc Hanging Gardens
375bc Mausoleum of Maussollos
250ad Apostolic Palace (all Judaism united - hmm, that's just us...)
350ad Great Library

No shrine or academy yet (first great person was an Engineer which we used for the Mausoleum; an Artist started the GA; the third was again an Engineer and is kept for later use). Currently our cities are working on Spinal Minaret, Versailles and Parthenon.

 

[PutCashIn]

Its a trick!

Lol, I got the great library in exactly 500AD.

Thats about where I'm up to. Got all in a panic after getting alphabet and still not meeting anyone, then built 2 work boats for the exploration of the land masses north and south, which also turned out to be isolated.

Then it was epic settler spam.

All I can say (although I am playing at immortal level, er, 'only'), is Darius has a truly legendary trait combo.

 

[RD-BH]

I have a weird idea:

... colonize the large northern island and the small southern island
... move your capital to the large northern island
... free the mainland and the small island
... recolonize the mainland
... move your capital to the mainland
... free the large northern island
... No, I don't think this is wise, I think it is FUN 8)

2 cities mainland - Vassal I
2 cities small southern island - Vassal II
2 cities large northern island - Vassal III
1 city (min) Mainland (more if you plan ahead)
Given expansion rate of AIs you'd have to pre-build a bunch of settlers so as not to lose the mainland completely.

Could you basically build a bigger block of colonies for voting stock and/or trading partners?
How does something like this affect relations with the other civs when you meet?
(ie More likely or Less likely to DoW?)

What can I say ... I like silly whacked out ideas.

 

[kcd_swede]

I have a weird idea:

... colonize the large northern island and the small southern island
... move your capital to the large northern island
... free the mainland and the small island
... recolonize the mainland
... move your capital to the mainland
... free the large northern island
... No, I don't think this is wise, I think it is FUN 8)

2 cities mainland - Vassal I
2 cities small southern island - Vassal II
2 cities large northern island - Vassal III
1 city (min) Mainland (more if you plan ahead)
Given expansion rate of AIs you'd have to pre-build a bunch of settlers so as not to lose the mainland completely.

Could you basically build a bigger block of colonies for voting stock and/or trading partners?
How does something like this affect relations with the other civs when you meet?
(ie More likely or Less likely to DoW?)

What can I say ... I like silly whacked out ideas.

Wouldn't all your vassals start hating each other when borders got tight... and you for trading with them and having their rivals as your vassals? Isn't just keping all the pop for yourself just as good? But I suppose if getting the land settled asap is the aim, then your idea has potential. It sounds like fun, actually, but I would never try this kind of experimentation on deity level. Try it on Monarch and see what kinds of unexpected stuff you can expect....

 

[Htadus]

I have a weird idea:

... colonize the large northern island and the small southern island
... move your capital to the large northern island
... free the mainland and the small island
... recolonize the mainland
... move your capital to the mainland
... free the large northern island
... No, I don't think this is wise, I think it is FUN 8)

2 cities mainland - Vassal I
2 cities small southern island - Vassal II
2 cities large northern island - Vassal III
1 city (min) Mainland (more if you plan ahead)
Given expansion rate of AIs you'd have to pre-build a bunch of settlers so as not to lose the mainland completely.

Could you basically build a bigger block of colonies for voting stock and/or trading partners?
How does something like this affect relations with the other civs when you meet?
(ie More likely or Less likely to DoW?)

What can I say ... I like silly whacked out ideas.

If you like "whacked out ideas", go for it . You will be weak, your vassals will be weak since you have almost no control of what they build and it seem that either Monti or Bodica is out there and building a military machine that you do not wish to encounter.

As for voting, all you need is one colony to do this and that could be just a single city for all that matter. Grow your cities to just under the needed votes and your 1 colony can vote you to victory.

It is always better to have more cities under your control than under a colony. 3 cities in the south island should only cost you 9 commerce per turn and it can be made up by working a coast tile in each city. I recommmend that you keep your cities and hope to make friends with one of the weaker civs out there your best bud. This should be possible based on all the warring that has happened so far. Good luck with your plans if you stick to it.

 

[Xcalibrator]

If settling in place is good enough for Htadus and Ribannah, it's good enough for me! I still haven't bothered getting those gems in a BFC as of 500 AD because there's so much other better stuff out there. 2nd city went to the 3 gems, pig, corn site out East; then South by stone, gold, corn, 3 FPS; 4th city up North on river mouth with horses, 1 ivory, pigs, corn; 5th South by 4 FPs, gold, corn, sheep, iron; 6th way out East on peninsula with fish, clams, stone (I have a weakness for Moai cities); and 7th North with 1 ivory, 2 sugar. Total pop somewhere around 55 and I'm getting ready to spam more settlers now that I have courthouses everywhere.

My only Wonder is Chichen Itza (425 AD) in the capital. (No, not particularly useful but it increases my GP points and it was cheap with stone. It turned out not so well--my 3rd GP pop was a Prophet with only a couple % probability--I was hoping for a Scientist to bulb Astro.) Missed Hanging Gardens by a couple turns at 750 BC. Didn't try for any other Wonders given my somewhat odd tech path--once it became clear we were isolated I went whole hog for Astro (apart from a deviation for CoL). Among the techs I don't have are Mysticism, Archery, Meditation, Polytheism, HR, Priesthood, Mono, Monarchy, Aesth, and Construction. But I just got Optics and should have Astro in about 14 turns running around 250 bpt at 100% (enabled by building wealth in several cities).

If any hostiles come by I'm toast with barely defended cities but I think I'm well ahead of the AI on sailing techs. I've sent out 2 caravels and aim to trade techs and resources and establish juicy trade routes once I get Astro (holding back Astro itself while I found cities on those nearby islands). I'll fill in some of the early techs myself before I start trading things away.

I don't count this as a real Deity game (you're such a softie, Niklas ) but I'll accept the win if I can get it. Looks pretty good at this point, if I can figure out which VC to pursue. I obviously have no religions at this point. Only the 1 wonder, although I'm hoping to get the Taj using a stored Great Eng.

 

[Htadus]

The Begining

Spoiler :

Greetings!

Are you talking to me?

Yes…yes I am. Ahh… hi I am Darius the Deity and I have been given the glorious task of building a great nation. Do you know anyone wise that can guide me in my noble quest?

Noble quest? Yeah right, sounds like a Deity contender to me. Well anyways, Htadus is the name and the stars are my game. I can help you. (mumble-> Do I really have to be wise?)

Humm? What? Stars? What are you talking about? Do you have any recommendations?

Well, of late, I have no recommendations because I have run out of time helping my two former employers due to something called real life issues; you know work, family, and sleep. So both Sitting Bull and Hatseptsut are not very happy with me at the moment. But as for stars, well I have seen the stars and it tells me that you are a man of finance and is very organized. Also you have one of the finest fighting units in this Civilized Universe. So we can use them to vanquish anyone who dared to live next to us and later build many cottages in these cities to give us commerce. We will dedicate ourselves for the task of learning many technologies to advance this Civilization. I can healp you go to the stars my friend.

Hold on for a second! You did not get the job yet. How do you plan to do all this?

Okay….first we settle right here on this hill. What? What about the Gem? Oh..we can build another city to get the Gems later. Just listen OK. Have you heard of Great Light House? No I did not think so. Anyways, this land is called a continent and all the other nations will have cities on the coast and we too will be settling many cities on the coast. So this Great Light House will attract 2 trading routes at each city on the coast to a total of 3 trade routes. This is like free money. Nice ah? I thought will like it. Now control your self and stop jumping up and down like a child. I am sorry. I did not mean to hurt you feeling. (mumble->man this guy is sensitive)

Well, why don’t we build a city on the elephant?

Oh that would be crazy. Once developed that tile will give us 1 food, 3 hammers and 3 commerce. That my friend is a power tile to go with the fish, corn and wheat.

Ok, so we settle right here and then what?

Well we need a worker. So let’s create a worker and learn about fishing. When the worker is done, we can build a fishing boat to catch fish. The worker can build a farm, a pasture and another farm before doing other stuff. Wo…why the long face?

Don’t we need to know where the horses are?

Yes. If we see anyone building a city nearby then we will start leaning Animal Husbandry Ok? But in the mean time you should send you cousin Naseem to check out the area. Anyways, see that empty plot next to gem? I think there are horses there. We shall have a feast to thank the creator Niklas for giving us horses. In the mean time we need to learn how to mine, work bronze to chop forests, sailing to build a lighthouse, masonry to build the Great Light House. Ok Darius, lets get this thing going and I will think about what else can be done.

27th age. 2920 BC

Spoiler :

Htadus! Htadus! Wake up.

Huh wa…what’s wrong? (groggy)

There are no horses in the city. However, there is something called copper and we got a message from a Seer that we can have slaves. Isn’t that great?

No. I hate slavery…but it has its uses. But, copper…now that is good news. Any words from Naseem?

Oh I almost forgot. There are no Civilizations south of us but there is another land visible there, we need a boat. Naseem is heading north at the moment. By the way…there are gold, stone sheep and many flood plains south of here. I feel so giddy. So what have you been meditating on?

Did you say Meditation? Were there any messages about religions?

Yes. The bells rang and a sign appeared in the sky and declaring Buddhism and Hinduism were discovered by someone. Why?

Well there is this thing called the Oracle. If we can build it, it will grant us a knowledge of our choosing.

So what is stopping us, lets do it.

Well we do not know how Priesthood works yet and that is what stopping us. I do not want to change our plans just yet. So stay with the plan and after learning masonry, we can head toward Priesthood. Learn polytheism so we can take a shot at founding Monotheism religion. Also we need a settler to build a city on the stone and a worker to help develop the area.

What are you planning Htadus?

Darius, have you ever heard of the Pyramids?

Is it not a financial scheme?

Jee… you financial guys! No it is a building with magical powers that allow us to choose all the governing civics without the required knowledge. I think we should build it in the capital. The new city can build the Great Light House. Also I think we need to start slavery. So when the new settler is heading to the stone site, start the slavery. Be ready for the anarchy. Now go. I must meditate….I mean think. Let me know when we can meditate.

75th Age (1000 BC)

Spoiler :

Master Htadus, we need your guidance?

Darius…how long have I been meditating? Tell me of your progress.

It is 1000 BC. Oh dear master, so much has happened since our last talk. We applied the whip to complete a settler, worker, lighthouse and in 1360 BC, the Pyramids in the capital and we just used the whip to finish the Great Light House in Susa. Also, it seem we are all alone under the stars.

Susa? Where did you build the Oracle? Alone?

Oh yes. There was a change of plan during you deep trans. We found an area with three gem plots. So the second city was founded there with pigs and corn in the expanded city limits. We also have a city further south built on flood plains with gold , sheep and 2 hills. As for the Oracle, it was build by some aliens 2 ages after we learned to Priesthood.

Aliens? You are confusing me. Oh well. We got the two wonders that we coveted the most. Good work. So tell me what have we learned so far.

Oh Master, you are going to be so proud of me, after we learned masonry, we learned Mysticism, Polytheism, Monotheism, Preisthood, the wheel and only two ages left to complete Pottery. Oh Aliens are Far-off-Lander's that will not bother us.

Humm I see. You have indeed done well but why Montheism before Priesthood? That caused us to miss the free tech. But we are alone and can slowly expand as we get the proper knowledge. But the Oracle.....

Well master I thought it would be better to have a religion if possible and I feel that was important.

Yes it is important to have some faith. Ok let us cause another revolution or two and create a government that Represent its citizens and show them the power of Organized Religion. Let us embrace the religion of One God. I would have preferred if we were Confused. From now on you will address me Minister. What of the Aliens or Far-off-Landers, have we found any?

We have searched both the lands near us Minister. There are no Aliens but there are marble and silver in the southern island and a site with 4 food sources in the continent to north. What is your advice?

We should build a Hanging Garden and learn to build forges. So learn Mathematics and Metal Casting. Then hope for a Great Engineer from the capital to learn Machinery. Ohhh I almost forgot, there is a building called MoM that help increase Golden Ages, we need to learn Calendar. So after Casting go for Calendar , then to Optics. We should take a break then. So good luck Darius. Oh yes, we should put two cities each in each land. Let’s start on a real Great person school in a city built near 4 food sources in the Northland.

135th Age (500 AD)

Spoiler :

Prime Minister Darius, it has been a long time since we last spoke, how is the Civilization?

Ah...Minister Htadus. I have been so busy I almost forgot. Hope you have had enough time to think about our future plans?

Yes, but tell me of our progress.

Well let me brief you. The Hanging Garden was build by a far away land before we even learned Mathematics. But we did learn Calendar in time to build the MoM. I was a bit concerned about that since some one built the Parthenon about the same time as the Garden. But we got it. Remember the note you sent me about the Apostolic Palace? Well we tried it but lost it to someone else who is Buddhist. But we did build the Great Library in the capital per your instructions. Very nice building indeed. We have not focused on meeting the far away people, instead were working on expanding and learning things on our own. I know it is not the best plan but we have been receiving news of Great General Births and believe the Far-off-Lander’s to be backwards…but not by too much. They seem to have Engineering. We got a Great Artist from learning Music and a Great Engineer from the Capital. Our first Scientist built an Academy in the Capital too. We just learned Machinery with the help of the Engineer and also completed Maditation. In three ages we can build long wooden ships called Caravels. Then we can meet all the Far-off-Lander’s. We have 5 cities in the main land and 2 each in other lands. We have marble, silver, sugar and a Great Person school in the making. So what is the plan?

I see that you know Paper and Philosophy already and about to get a Great Scientist. We can use him to learn most of Education. Then start on Liberalism but do not complete it. By then we should know where all the Far-off-Lander’s are technologically. I see that there are no Wonders available to build. I am guessing there is someone out there that is going for culture. No matter.

Plan

Spoiler :

Darius, we should use the Artist to start a Golden Age when the Great Pearson School is ready. Switch to Pacifism and Cast System. Then develop technology along the Industrialism path until some one can research Liberalism, then finish liberalism to get Astronomy or better technology.

We should continue working cottages until we can have workshops. Meanwhile we should bulb toward Biology and work to complete Oxford in the capital. I shall concentrate on the final strategy. I think we should get a free Great Person from all the available tachs and run state property as soon as possible. What? yes I am all over the tech board

 

[adrianj]

BOTM28 - Contender Save

As if I would take anything other than the Contender save for a Diety level game!

My initial plan is to make use of the excellent UU for an early rush on a near neighbour, assuming they are in fact quite nearby. I'll see how the teching goes and make a decision later about what, if any, victory condition to chase. However, I like to think cultural is typically easier if the AI is friendly enough.

*** 4000 BC -> 2400 BC ***

The scout moves NW,SW to show there are no extra seafood to miss out on by settling in place. So I do just that, assuming a second city can claim the gems. First tech is Fishing, while starting build is a worker. On turn 7 the build is switched to workboat and next tech is AH.

The scout goes south first, see a nice city site with stone and floodplain corn. Then round the mountains to come back up to see another nice site with the gems pigs and more floodplains. Maybe I don't need a rush, but instead just cottage these lovely riverside tiles.

By turn 20 I still haven't met any AI... a rush seems stupid.

AH reveals horses to the northeast by another excellent city site. So many good sites, my new plan is to expand ASAP to the brink of economic collapse, and then recover as cottages mature.

Possibly we are isolated. A workboat is being built to go exploring.

In 2400 BC I am beginning to build my first settler.

*** 2400 BC -> 850 BC ***

At this point I am thinking we have an awesome landmass all to ourselves. BUT, a cultural VC needs religions.

So my goal here is to Oracle Code of Laws to found Confucianism, and then cross fingers I can bulb Philo for Taoism, and MAYBE divine right or Theology. With 3 religions the cultural VC should be feasible.

In 2000 BC the Oracle is already built though... Can I found confucianism the old fashioned way? The answer is yes! In 850 BC.

*** 850 BC -> 1 AD ***

The next turn, Christianity is founded overseas. There have already been 2 great generals born over there as well, so certainly plenty of warring going on. I figure I'm probably safe to adopt my religion about now.

The Pyramids have also been built elsewhere. I'll just keep expanding while I can.

By 400 BC I have 6 cities, and have learnt Monarchy. So a pretty solid local economy. Next tech target is Optics to find the other continent. After Civil Service, since Bureau is just so powerful.

At 1 AD I have 9 cities, with ~130 sustainable , having just switched to Bureau and Caste System. I'm researching Philosophy, since I still think a cultural VC is possible with 2 religions, assuming I can get Taoism. As for finding the other continent... it can wait.

*** 1 AD -> 500 AD ***

By 175 AD I realise I've missed Taoism by 2 turns. Perhaps I should switch to something else, like a space race.

Ooo, in 475 BC, this civilization called "XXX" has been destroyed! There really has been a lot of warring going on!

In 500 AD I have 13 cities, with ~200 sustainable at 50%. Currently learning Currency, and have a GS ready to bulb Education. At this point I'm still building settlers in the capital (it has done nothing else for the last 1000 years!) and considering a palace move to one of my more heavily cottaged cities. I'm thinking now is the time to tech to Optics and find out how the other contient is doing. Hopefully I can get Astro from Lib. We shall see.

As for demographics, as others are reporting I am #1 in , , land area and pop, and #2 in GNP.

 

[RD-BH]

RE: Multiple Colonies

I was thinking of trying this after I submit. Part of the idea was about faster expansion on the mainland, even though there would be quite some time invested to even try this. I doubt it would ever work and I'm still not sure of the diplomatic repercussions, but wouldn't it be a hoot to try. 8)

Q: Do more and/or more powerful allies help reduce DoWs after 1st contact?
I would think a few more friendly vassals building faster than me would look more intimidating than just me. Whatever monster civ emerges from the other side of the world might not find a sitting duck when they run aground here.

Thanks for the comments ...
... and keep having FUN 8)

[edit]
Q: What about benefits of multiple vassals researching different techs?
[end_edit]

 

[Htadus]

I was thinking of trying this after I submit. Part of the idea was about faster expansion on the mainland, even though there would be quite some time invested to even try this. I doubt it would ever work and I'm still not sure of the diplomatic repercussions, but wouldn't it be a hoot to try. 8)

Q: Do more and/or more powerful allies help reduce DoWs after 1st contact?
I would think a few more friendly vassals building faster than me would look more intimidating than just me. Whatever monster civ emerges from the other side of the world might not find a sitting duck when they run aground here.

Thanks for the comments ...
... and keep having FUN 8)

RD-BH, it seems that you are building workers and settlers at size one for too many turns. This will keep your civ in the dark ages for long time. By the time I built my second settler, it only took me six turns to build it because I let my city grow to its max of 7 population. You are hurting your game by not growing your cities. Look at my last 3 turns in the spoiler.

Spoiler :

Turn 133/500 (450 AD) [21-Mar-2010 08:05:31]
Persepolis begins: Harbor (4 turns)
A Mine was built near Pasargadae
50% Research: 185 per turn
50% Gold: -3 per turn, 9 in the bank

After End Turn:
Thomas Edison (Great Engineer) born in Persepolis
A Village was built near Persepolis
A Hamlet was built near Susa
Ecbatana finishes: Settler
Gordium grows to size 6

Turn 134/500 (475 AD) [21-Mar-2010 08:06:29]
A Cottage was built near Bactra
50% Research: 191 per turn
50% Gold: -2 per turn, 6 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Music
William Shakespeare (Great Artist) born in Persepolis
Persepolis grows to size 17
Tarsus grows to size 6
Bactra grows to size 5

Turn 135/500 (500 AD) [21-Mar-2010 08:09:30]
Research begun: Machinery (0 Turns)
A Mine was built near Ergili
50% Research: 192 per turn
50% Gold: -2 per turn, 4 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Machinery
Persepolis finishes: Harbor
A Hamlet was built near Persepolis
Gordium grows to size 7

Three others were over 11 each. You need to let growth take place.

Niklas has given a gift for us nondeity players. So take it to the limit. Take a few turns to let all of your cities to grow and make sure you have granaries in each. Then build a bunch of settlers and build cities. Let your economy crash if needed, then by the time AI come knocking, you will be the bad ass they are afraid of. Do not depend on Allies and colonies for defense. In a recent Deity game I had a DP with the most powerful AI only to be abandoned when he DOWed a nearby AI and the very hostile Nappy wiped me out in few turns. My cultured cities are still burning.

 

[donsig]

I'm not very good at deity level so I figured I could knock this game out quickly since the AI would be all over me in no time. Thought I'd try to learn what I could so I spent some time looking over the pre-game thread for ideas. There was alot of talk about having the gems fast and how good or bad it would be to settle on the ivory.

I did a test game with the same parameters. Went through many map regenerations and never did get one with both fish and wheat in the start. So I ended up looking at these resources individually. I didn't play a test game, just tried to get a feel for which food resources were better and how important gems might be. I saw that the happiness cap would be five with out an MP so I wasn't too worried about gems. I didn't like the idea of having to research fish and build workboats before I could benefit from the seafood but the thing that got me in test game were those three coins in the coastal tiles. I figured that would be important in the long run. So I thought I coastal city would be good and I could use one or two of the land food tiles in the beginning. What really bothered me was losing out on all those hills to the southwest. It looked as though the west coast would preclude a second city in that area. So I decided I would scout for seafood in that area, as suggested in the pre-game thread.

The bigger question was which overall strategy to follow. I liked the idea (from the pre-game thread) of bee-lining to alphabet in order to trade with my neighbors so we could outpace the other continent. It seemed to be a choice between that or trying to rush a close neighbor. Of course we had no idea if there'd be a neighbor close by. It occurred to me that either of these strategies would be helped by expanding as fast as I could while my scout looked for trading partners or rush targets.

So I began the game. The scout did not find seafood. I wanted the hills so I settled west, on the ivory. Started a worker and researched fishing. No barbs so I went for a workboat after the worker and mining after fishing. The scout didn't find anyone close enough to rush. The scout didn't find anyone at all. I figured I should grab as much land as I could before the bad guys showed up. I gave up my predisposition to build early wonders (like Stonehenge).

I soon realized I couldn't grab all that land and still research. Writing became a priority for libraries and scientists. Then code of laws for courthouses and a religion. Didn't get confucianism though. I did manage to found Taoism in 460 BC though. Also built the Great Library in 400 AD. In 500 AD I had seven cities.

 

[Htadus]

CHALLENGER

It's 500ad and we have just learned Optics. Caravels are getting built to explore the wide ocean and find out what is going on with the AI. They probably need our assistance.

500ad stats
15 cities, 95 heads

......
250ad Apostolic Palace (all Judaism united - hmm, that's just us...)
.....
No shrine or academy yet (first great person was an Engineer which we used for the Mausoleum; an Artist started the GA; the third was again an Engineer and is kept for later use). Currently our cities are working on Spinal Minaret, Versailles and Parthenon.

Nice stats. 15 Cities . 14 workers. This is where I need to improve. I think I have just 10 but I only have 9 Cities. I am in the process of expanding at the cut off but I like your expansion way better. Do you have a GP farm yet? Do you slave much?

I did want that AP but missed out on it. I hope you are going to space so we can compare the games.

 

[Ribannah]

Of course we are going to space! Where else could we expand further?

Slavery is indeed a very important tool in this game, where unhappiness is not an issue. Don't be afraid to whip just because some cottages won't be worked for a few turns!

Another key issue is where to settle first. Sure, that location with 3 gems looks mightily attractive, but having a lot of floodplain villages is better.

Thirdly, allow your cities to grow a bit before you let them build new settlers. Since you are alone, there is time, and you'll catch up soon enough. In all your cities, build a Granary first (yes, Courthouses and Lighthouses are cheap this time, but granaries first is still more effective). Your new settlement needs a workboat? Let a mature city build it ahead of schedule.

 

[Jbourne]

I'm working about 2 sea tiles. I have awesome land tiles to work. I can't see Collossus doing anything useful for me.

I agree with this. It expires too early unless you do what The Hawk and Htadus did in the England no tech trade game. They avoided Astro for a long time.

I agree that GLH can be let go this game, as no trades mean those extra trade routes are nerfed. But in an isolated start, the conventional wisdom is pro-GLH.

I think this is not true. The 100% intercontinental trade applies to the cities build on the other 2 landmasses. So getting about 6 cities, 2 on each land with GLH and harbors, you are talking about 3 trade routes with 3 gold easily. That is 6 extra gold per turn in each city for the price of 200 hammers. In less than 6 turns you get the money back. If no intercontinental trades available, then 6 coastal cities will take 17 turns to payback the 200 hammers. So conventional wisdom is right on the money.

I'm counting on repr-loaded specialists to carry me until the financial cottages can win the game for me. Some Deity experince tells me this is laden with pitfalls, but if I can get some decent diplomacy and trading going, the sky is not the limit!

Looking at the demographics board, it looks as though I could win the game without firing a shot. Cross my fingers.

I think as long as you are specializing, this combo approach is the best way to go. Cottage all the flood plains and when happy limit is met run specialists in most cities. One or two cities should be all specialized. A friend of mine likes to build his early specialist city in a place with many hills and food, when the specialists become less attractive, he switch them to production very fast.

BTW I think there is just about enough tiles to win Domination within reach.