BOTM 28 First Spoiler - 500 AD

[culdeus]

I guess I'll try for UN after running a virtual ICS on the mainland. I think the AI must all be with eachother and when they meet me I'll be a nice utopia waiting to impose order and law over the land.

I will say the first 500AD has been the fastest in real life time I've had lately.

 

[Mitchum]

We had one Golden Age, starting in 50ad for 12 turns.

I just picked up BtS and this is my first non-Vanilla game. How is it possible to have a 12 turn GA?

 

[babybluepants]

^ Mausoleum of M

 

[jesusin]

I haven't built any wonders, have been trying to balance building up military and keeping the economy going.

And why are you building up military, Jack?

I hated it when I discovered I had settled on copper. I couldn't build any cheap warriors as police!

 

[jesusin]

Settled on the ivory after checking the coast for more seafood, ...

What was the rationale behind it, please?

I had decided I would settle 1SE, so I checked the coast for more seafood that could have changed my mind. If I had decided to settle on the coast, I would have explored E to see if I would be missing something important.

 

[jesusin]

Let try my hand at this...I've been a member of civfanatics since civ3, plus minus 10 yrs maybe. Huge fan of the series, this is the first time I've submitted a GOTM though. I've always been content cheating the AI before and now I've decided to up my game and to play fair!

Good decision!

If your experience runs like mine, you'll soon discover that:
- Games are much more thrilling
- Games don't take ages to finish
- You learn much faster

 

[Holy Cheese]

And why are you building up military, Jack?

I hated it when I discovered I had settled on copper. I couldn't build any cheap warriors as police!

Well, because I was expecting either that some friendly neighbourhood lunatic would be knocking on my doors soon, mainly because of all the messages I was seeing about Great Generals being born.

Jack

 

[azzaman333]

What was the rationale behind it, please?

I had decided I would settle 1SE, so I checked the coast for more seafood that could have changed my mind. If I had decided to settle on the coast, I would have explored E to see if I would be missing something important.

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[Mutineer]

does not change mach, as one want to develop tie anyway and river provide connection.

 

[Xevious]

Just recently got back into Civ, as Civ 4 wasn't working very well on my previous pc. Picked up Civ 4 Complete and have been trying to figure out all the changes in BTS. Nothing like a Deity BOTM to be your first.

Cities

I read the opening thread for pointers, and decided I was probably going to settle in place, so I scouted SE,NE, and not finding anything, settled in place. I started scouting south and then counter clockwise. Saw the stone, but then saw the FP, corn and gold. I Initially planned to settle for stone, but decided to go even further south and settle west of corn for Pasargadae. Susa went SE on the river S,SW of pig, Ecbatana went even further SE on the river, and Tarus went SW of the wine to the south. This gave me 4 cities with lots of FP, which I cottaged. My biggest problem was distance maintenance since I settled very widely spread. Gordium was next, 2W of northern pig on coast, followed by Bactra 1S of the middle of 3 gem cluster, Sardis E of the marble on the SW island, and finally, Ergili in 500AD, SE of the cow on SE corner.

So 9 cities at 500AD, with 73 pop (did some whipping, but not a ton). All FP are cottaged and some grass. Capitol is not cottaged, I left most forest, and am using it for production, though this may change. I built Moai Stones there, forgettting that I only had 4 coastal tiles. Would have been better to save for a different city. Plan on settling the NW island soon.

Initial build order for capitol was worker, work boat, warrior x 2, settler, worker, axeman, settler, worker, settler, worker, granary. The second warrior was to allow one more growth point, as was the axe.

Tech

My research went: Fishing, Mining, BW, Wheel. This gave me what I needed to build up capitol and locate copper. Then decided I wanted to try for Judaism next. Teched Myst, Pottery (for cottages), Masonry, Poly. Just after finishing Poly, Judaism was founded elsewhere. Still want a religion so I decide to try for Confucianism. Teched Writing (for library), Priesthood, COL and founded Confucianism in Pasargadae. Convert immediately. Send missionary to Ecbatana to help it expand borders. (I was using monuments in most cities.) Continue on with Math, Currency, Monarchy (to hook up wine), Sailing (realize I should have got this much earlier to avoid all the road building), Calendar (for sugar), Med, IW, AH (knowing we were isolated early I decided I didn't need horses right away), Mono, Casting, Machinery, Compass, Optics (and start Caravel in capitol), and start Astronomy. I am 5 turns away at 500AD, and caravel is well away from shore, though hasn't found anyone yet. My tech rate is 213bpt at 70% (305 at 100%).

I see from reading this first spoiler that I still need to work on my tech ordering, and the implications of getting GPs to help out. I don't think about GPs and bulbing, and I should. Still, I think I did pretty good and I owe it all to the cottage spam of the flood plains. CHs and Libs helped too.

Plans

I didn't realize the demographics screen showed you compared to other civs you haven't met yet. I just assumed since no score shows, you had no info. So looking at this, I have over 3 times the population of the best civ and nearly 4 times the land area, but only half the military (surprised its that high).

I see people talking about domination possibilities, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was extra land somewhere on the map to prevent that. I'm also not sure I could fill all the NW island before THEY arrive. So I'm undecided what VC I will go for. Which is probably a bad thing....

 

[PutCashIn]

Lol Azzaman333, best answer to a jesusin question for several forum posts, to be sure!

 

[jesusin]

Hmmmm, right... maybe I am asking too much?

When I see something I wouldn't have done, I want to ask. Maybe the answer can open my eyes and I can learn new things!

Also, I prefer to ask publicly. That way more people can learn, either from me or from the original poster.
That's what I liked the most of civfanatics when I came here the very first time, how discussions here helped to throw light on the most complex civ subjects, how collaboration between different people made me learn more and more.

 

[Jbourne]

Lol Azzaman333, best answer to a jesusin question for several forum posts, to be sure!

I can hardly agree because settling on the elephant is an extreamly weak choice since it did not add any good tiles, added no growth coast/sea tiles, lost one food and 2 additional commerce from working 1f3h3c elephants and only gained 1 extra hammer by working the PH. Now had there been 2 more sea food that would have been an ideal location. Even just one more sea food.

So I think it was a cute answere but best; it was not. If he truely thought it was the best choice at the begining, then he did not read the tile correctly and it reflect the likelyhood of having limited experiance with civ4. This will reflect in the final tally usually. Most good players stayed in place (wish I did) for the food. My limited experience told me commerce was king when food truly is superior. Check out posts by Sanaaty and Unconqured Sun to see the power of food. (Hope I spelled their names correctly.)

 

[PutCashIn]

Omfg, food is good? naw, your kidding!

Just because you disagree with my opinion, doesnt make you right, me wrong, or change the fact that over thinking, over analysing makes for good tool lyrics.

Grab a pinch of salt. Well, alot of it. Sprinkle liberally. Now eat.

Tastes better? Where is life without a little salt?

 

[azzaman333]

Hmmmm, right... maybe I am asking too much?

When I see something I wouldn't have done, I want to ask. Maybe the answer can open my eyes and I can learn new things!

Also, I prefer to ask publicly. That way more people can learn, either from me or from the original poster.
That's what I liked the most of civfanatics when I came here the very first time, how discussions here helped to throw light on the most complex civ subjects, how collaboration between different people made me learn more and more.

I think I decided to move the scout west because I really wanted to know whether there was more seafood that required me to move onto the western plains hill. Also, because we could already see all the BFC if we settled on the plains hill except for two forests, I really just didn't want to have to settle and find out there were 3 fish sitting out there that I couldn't reach. I don't really spend any time thinking about what I'm going to do next, I just do it.

 

[kcd_swede]

Most good players stayed in place (wish I did) for the food. My limited experience told me commerce was king when food truly is superior.

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish, whether early commerce or more food is superior; some excellent players surely chose the commerce over the food because it best coincided with their objectives.

The way the set-up worked out with isolation, we can probably judge now that the higher food site was superior - but the settling decision was made before this information (as well as information about copper) was available.

Personally, I agree with Jesusin, that I see no early strategy that actually favors the elephant site... but that doesn't mean there can't be one that I could learn from.

It was a legit question asked in a nice enough way, and the answer was ("It seemed like a good idea at the time" as I interpretted it to mean "I just felt like it at the time") also a fair one. You CAN play this game just for fun, too, ya know. That's maybe the "best" way, imo. So in that sense, if it felt good, it is good. The result may be suboptimal, but, well, I predict EVERY submission will be sub-optimal (just some more so than others).

 

[Holy Cheese]

Hmmmm, right... maybe I am asking too much?

When I see something I wouldn't have done, I want to ask. Maybe the answer can open my eyes and I can learn new things!

Also, I prefer to ask publicly. That way more people can learn, either from me or from the original poster.
That's what I liked the most of civfanatics when I came here the very first time, how discussions here helped to throw light on the most complex civ subjects, how collaboration between different people made me learn more and more.

Jesusin, I for one am very happy if you ask questions - it may help to point out to me something stupid that I have done, which the better players (of whom you are certainly one) would not have done, so your question will make me question why I did something and maybe learn from it.

Jack

 

[Jbourne]

Omfg, food is good? naw, your kidding!

Not even for a moment. Fast growth will let you work more tiles earlier, let you run specialists sooner build settlers and workers faster to claim importants resources before someone else does.

Just because you disagree with my opinion, doesnt make you right, me wrong,

I agree. They are just opinions and often differs from others.

or change the fact that over thinking, over analysing makes for good tool lyrics.

Grab a pinch of salt. Well, alot of it. Sprinkle liberally. Now eat.

Tastes better? Where is life without a little salt?

You lost me here. I am guessing it is a cultural differance.

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish, whether early commerce or more food is superior; some excellent players surely chose the commerce over the food because it best coincided with their objectives.

Since I was one of them who choose commerce, let me say you are absolutely correct.

The way the set-up worked out with isolation, we can probably judge now that the higher food site was superior - but the settling decision was made before this information (as well as information about copper) was available.

Personally, I agree with Jesusin, that I see no early strategy that actually favors the elephant site... but that doesn't mean there can't be one that I could learn from.

Well depending on how the scout was used, a good decision can be made with the information available at turn 0. Since I was lured in by the gem, I sent my scout to the FPH to west to see if there were additinal sea food there that would give me another option.

It was a legit question asked in a nice enough way, and the answer was ("It seemed like a good idea at the time" as I interpretted it to mean "I just felt like it at the time") also a fair one. You CAN play this game just for fun, too, ya know. That's maybe the "best" way, imo. So in that sense, if it felt good, it is good. The result may be suboptimal, but, well, I predict EVERY submission will be sub-optimal (just some more so than others).

Well put and thanks for the reminder about having fun. I do not get to play many games, so I am a little serious when I do play. I wish I can have Civ installed on this machine (work) that will give me 5 hours each week for fun.

 

[PutCashIn]

hehe, I think he did answer your question, like you wisely saw, there IS a lesson there, just one hard to interpret using, strictly, mathematics.

(Oh, and pretty sure ALL forms of life (all, what, 6/7 of them?), anywhere on earth, need salt as a micronutrient.)

 

[Ribannah]

I can hardly agree because settling on the elephant is an extreamly weak choice since it did not add any good tiles, added no growth coast/sea tiles, lost one food and 2 additional commerce from working 1f3h3c elephants and only gained 1 extra hammer by working the PH. Now had there been 2 more sea food that would have been an ideal location. Even just one more sea food.

So I think it was a cute answere but best; it was not. If he truely thought it was the best choice at the begining, then he did not read the tile correctly and it reflect the likelyhood of having limited experiance with civ4. This will reflect in the final tally usually. Most good players stayed in place (wish I did) for the food. My limited experience told me commerce was king when food truly is superior. Check out posts by Sanaaty and Unconqured Sun to see the power of food. (Hope I spelled their names correctly.)

Settling on the Ivory is feasible if you elect to have Moai Statues in the capital. It is certainly not 'extremely weak' then. The good river tiles that you give up can be used by another city.